Challenge: produce two photos from Shanksville scene showing plane wires

Originally posted by thedman
So who have Wallace MIller, the county coroner responsible for recovery operations stating that crews were
finding wiring in the debris

There is wiring in cruise missiles. Evidence shows the crater in Shanksville was not created by a Boeing 757

reply to post by Shadow Herder


"Evidence"??

Evidence shows the crater in Shanksville was not created by a Boeing 757

The evidence of the actual airplane debris.

The evidence of the actual FDR and CVR.

The evidence of the eyewitnesses who participated in collecting the debris.

The evidence of the Human remains.

The evidence of the County Coroner who worked with those remains to identify them, for the family members.

The evidence of those same passengers' and crew's personal items, luggage, credit cards, IDs....even as their bodies had been reduced to pulp and tiny bits.


This nonsense about Shanksville is as bad as the few loons claiming that "all" of the NYC video footage was "faked"......it is no different. It is selective cherry picking of the evidence, and ignoring the mountains of actual proof.

I agree. The crater in Shanksville was measured at around 30 feet wide and only 10 feet deep. Much too small to have been caused by a Boeing 757 which is atleast 123 feet wide.

Investigate this yourself. Google Shanksville crater

reply to post by Shadow Herder


What I like about the 911 forum is that there are always experts with good education and a lot of experience with plane crash investigations sharing their well informed conclusions after long investigation. Or are you just making baseless assertion mainly based on ignorance and incredulity?

Bottom line is, the core of the truth movement exists of people making claims about subjects they know little about. What do you know about the size of craters that aircrafts should make? Nothing. Just like all those people who think they know how buildings should collapse.

reply to post by Shadow Herder

The crater in Shanksville was measured at around 30 feet wide and only 10 feet deep.

Oh really? And who did this measuring? When was it measured? Where the measurments taken electronically? What about the reporter you quoted saying it was 18 feet deep - are you accusing her of lying?

And last, but not least, please provide some calculations to support your nonsensical proposition that the crater is not the right size.

You are dense.

The Dayton Daily News of September 12, 2001, described the scene:

The impact of the crash left a crater estimated by authorities to be about 10 feet deep and 20 feet wide. It appeared the plane first hit on the downward slope of a hillside [/ex

Nena Lensbouer, who had prepared lunch for the workers at the scrap yard overlooking the crash site, said she was the first person to reach the crater. Lensbouer said that the crater was five to six feet deep and smaller than the 24-foot trailer in her front yard. She described the sound as "an explosion, like an atomic bomb" -- not a crash.

Capt. Frank Monaco:
“The gouge was 8 to 10 feet deep and 15 to 20 feet long, said Capt. Frank Monaco of the Pennsylvania State Police. “
(AP, 9/12/01 )
www.courier-journal.com...

FBI Special Agent Bill Crowley said the recorder was found at about 4:20 p.m. in the 8-foot-deep crater caused by the crash.
WPXI11 Pittsburgh

The plane left a crater 20 feet wide and 15 feet deep.
(Plain Dealer, 9/12/01)

Reporters said the crater was about 40 feet wide and more than 8 feet deep.
(Los Angeles Times, 9/12/01)

The impact of the crash left a crater estimated by authorities to be about 10 feet deep and 20 feet wide.
(Cox, 9/12/01)

[I]“Pittsburgh's WTAE-TV reporter Michelle Wright toured the crash scene and said that a crater of about 30 to 40 feet long, 15 to 20 feet wide and 18 feet deep was created by the crash.”
www.newsnet5.com...

There are no wing scars. Not one person who was there ever described where the wings hit or that anything hit the ground outside of the 20-30 foot wide crater. If it were a Boeing 757 the crater would of been called a trench. The crater is much too small to have been caused by a Boeing 757.

The impact of the crash left a crater estimated by authorities to be about 10 feet deep and 20 feet wide. (Cox, 9/12/01)



There is all the proof you need. I dont understand why you have a hard time believing the crater is any bigger. Is it because it is too small to have been cause by a Boeing 757 and that is why you chose to dismiss 20+ eyewitnesses and first responders accounts of the scene?



"The impact of the crash left a crater estimated by authorities to be about 10 feet deep and 20 feet wide.
(Cox, 9/12/01) "

reply to post by Shadow Herder

Pittsburgh's WTAE-TV reporter Michelle Wright toured the crash scene and said that a crater of about 30 to 40 feet long, 15 to 20 feet wide and 18 feet deep was created by the crash.

18 feet deep! Why do you insist that she's lying? Explain who did the measuring (you said measured) and why you keep saying the crater was 30 foot by 10 foot when we obviously have someone saying it was up to 40 feet long, 20 feet wide and 18 feet deep!! That's 14400 cubic feet!

There is all the proof you need. I dont understand why you have a hard time believing the crater is any bigger. Is it because it is too small to have been cause by a Boeing 757 and that is why you chose to dismiss 20+ eyewitnesses and first responders accounts of the scene?



"The impact of the crash left a crater estimated by authorities to be about 10 feet deep and 20 feet wide.
(Cox, 9/12/01) "

reply to post by Shadow Herder


FROM your own source:

[color=gold]It appeared the plane first hit on the downward slope of a hillside

No matter the sad and pathetic attempts, the overriding FACTS are that United Airlines Flight 93 crashed at that site.

Shown by the actual evidence that remains from such an impact......the "size" of the "crater" as related by people who looked, and were NOT professional airplane crash investigators, but were relating in their own words, and by their own perceptions the scene they saw is NOT something to make a case upon for "no airplane in Shanksville".

Sorry, but your assertions are just ridiculous.

About 10 feet deep and no more than 30 feet wide. Being generous. The image speak volumes. Not a Boeing 757 crash site. A boeing 757 is OVER 123 FEET WIDE.

reply to post by Shadow Herder

About 10 feet deep and no more than 30 feet wide. Being generous. The image speak volumes. Not a Boeing 757 crash site.

Even though a reporter, at the site, said it was 40 feet long, 20 feet wide and 18 feet deep? I see you think the image is "talking" to you. So I guess we should start a new investigation based on the voices you hear.

Simplified.

The crater in Shanksville was not caused by a Boeing 757.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Simplified.

The crater in Shanksville was not caused by a Boeing 757.

I'm sorry, green lines. That must mean that everything you say is true.

So, is the reporter from Pittsburgh lying? She was on the site - were you?

reply to post by Shadow Herder


You base your *armchair assertions* on a few photos?? Do you understand the concept of photos, as compared to actually being on a scene??

Ever been on holiday, and thinking what you are seeing is "So Awesome", you just have to take photos to be able to share, when you get back home, with your mates (and family too)?

Ever been disappointed in the results of your photos, in their inability to capture the full grandeur of the scene??

(I'm talking about the days before digital photography technology.....when you took pictures, and waited until you got home to have them developed and printed.

Sheesh......I may as well be talking about how to make stone tools by chipping flint, to some of these ATS members and readers who grew up with nothing BUT digital cameras.....

(Slowly driving needles into my eyes.....yeah, that's how it feels trying to explain things to those who are too young to comprehend.....)......

For comparison here is some info on the Caspian Airliner crash which crashed into ground similar to Shanksville. The Caspian plane was not travelling as fast when it hit the ground...... here is a description

"The aircraft was completely destroyed after it crashed into an agricultural field, carving a crater up to 10 metres (33 ft) deep. An eye witness who claims to have been within 300 metres (330 yd) of the crash-site described the event as if "the plane just fell out of the sky". Three hours after the crash, fires over a 200 square metres (2,200 sq ft) area still remained.[3][12] A witness told Fars news agency:"

33 Feet deep.

Above is a real plane crash, below isnt.

reply to post by Shadow Herder




NO!!!!

For comparison here is some info on the Caspian Airliner crash which crashed into ground similar to Shanksville.

FIRSTLY...the terrain and soil composition were NOT "similar" to that at Shanksville

SECONDLY....the Caspian Airlines crash was NOT at all the same, in terms of the reason and the intent and the velocity and the angle of impact, the "same" as United 93!!

reply to post by Shadow Herder

.....Caspian Airliner crash which crashed into ground similar to Shanksville.

Now wait a minute. You now have access to a soils engineering report and maybe a geological profile of Shanksville? Wow! You are just chock full of information. How about those measurements? You said someone measured the crater, got that info?

Originally posted by Shadow Herder



One of the last people to see what crashed was Susan. She saw something small, white, seamless, no windows, size of her van swooped down at street level, banked then crashed... sounds like a cruise missile to me.

I'm sorry. I'm confused again by your postings. A cruise missile? Really?

It's apparent that you're a vehement "anti-OS" truther. Good for you. It's nice to have a hobby.

ABout your cruise missile claim- care to expand on that a little more and perhaps offer a workable theory?

Can you show where and how it was launched (air, sea, land) or any evidence of it being launched
What type of cruise missile?
Any credible witnesses that saw it flying over head or being launched?
Any missile fragments at the site?
But what of all the pieces of airplane wreckage that was found from UAL93?
You seem entranced by the crater- consistent with a cruise missile crater?
What of all the witnesses that saw a plane?
How many people were in on this?
etc
etc
etc

Now keep in mind, your evidence for a cruise missile will have to trump and completely negate all the evidence that shows an airplane was hijacked and crashed in Shanksville.

Good luck

Here is an example of the absurdity that the 30-40 foot wide 10 foot deep crater was caused by a 124 foot wide Boeing 757.

Impossible.

One eyewitness describes the craft being no bigger than her van.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder


Here is an example of the absurdity that the 30-40 foot wide 10 foot deep crater was caused by a 124 foot wide Boeing 757.

Impossible.

One eyewitness describes the craft being no bigger than her van.

Your scale seems to be a little off. You should use the 124' 10" wing scars as a scale reference.