Giza- What is the Egyptian government hiding?

Somewhere in between,
I want to say that the Egyptian texts you quoted from preceed the Bible! The Bible was taken from these ancient texts, not the other way around. Check, "Ancient Middle Eastern Texts and how they relate to the Bible." It is a massive book at about 1500 pages and larger than legal sized paper, which describes in depth the various texts from the Middle East and the variations adopted by the writers of the Bible. Everything you quoted was written by the Egyptians before the Bible. The texts found are from the 18th Dynasty, but it clearly states that these texts were taken from far older versions.
"The text is preserved in the Papyrus Bremner-Rhind, which may have come from Thebes. The present manuscript is dated to about 310 BC, BUT the text makes a deliberate attempt to preserve a language 2,ooo years older than that date. There is no doubt that the basic material derives from a relatively early period."

All that aside, the Bible is inaccurate anyway as there are several books that have been intentionally omitted (for instance-the Book of Mary Magdeline). The apostles didn't like the fact that Jesus loved his wife as much as he did and they were jealous of this marriage so they just discarded her writings after Jesus' death. The Bible was written by MAN, who is far from perfect as we all know, which to me means the Bible is NOT infallible. Some Bible teachings hold value, but some do not, IMHO.

[edit on 21-3-2005 by cleasterwood]

Has anyone ever thought that maybe the pyramids were built in recent history instead of before our time?

What proof is there that the pyrmaids existed for so long?

Are you going to beleive some crumbly piece of paper? A senile old man? Or popular opinion?

No offense to the old wrinkly people, but I would not beleive a word of any history I was supposedly not apart of.

What good has ever come out of studying the pyramids? None. Why do you all care? It is private property. You cant go there and dig. Who cares about some pile of rock.

What of any significance has ever been found about the pyramids? Oh wow they knew how big the earth was. They knew algebra so it was possible for them to figure it out.

They knew about North and South East and West. Oh wow this is advanced *rolls eyes*. They had compass's. JUst like they had sun dials. And ims ure they figured out North and South by their study of astrology and the direction the stars moved.

Zzzzz. I wish they would just tear the stupid things down and we can get on with relishing on the supposed "past" and try and do them one better with our own super pyramids for our grandchildren to ponder over.

At least we would come up with something half interesting.

Also im sure if you group enough measurements together you could come up with just about anything.

Also there are pyramids all over the world, not just at the "center of the landmass".

I didnt know Egypt was on the Equator. What is the "Center of the world".

Did they build a pyramid in the center of the earth?

This is pathetic.

Bunch of dead guys in coffins and fricken pictures of birds.

And somehow the pyramids based on measurements of the Earth

If Tut and Osiris were half the man I am, they would be alive today. Since I am alive and they arent. Theyre dead for a reason, building ugly rock piles to entertain the bored.

Originally posted by cleasterwood
Somewhere in between,
I want to say that the Egyptian texts you quoted from preceed the Bible! The Bible was taken from these ancient texts, not the other way around. Check, "Ancient Middle Eastern Texts and how they relate to the Bible." It is a massive book at about 1500 pages and larger than legal sized paper, which describes in depth the various texts from the Middle East and the variations adopted by the writers of the Bible. Everything you quoted was written by the Egyptians before the Bible.

Perhaps you should reread my posts, for that is exactly what i have been saying, such as:

SWIB- To many of the western world, the Hebraic Old Testament is the document which is relied upon for creation history, the reason being that the Hebrew people despite all the calamities they underwent, did manage to survive much in tact from the days of yore, and held fast in their oral accounting of history until the day of papyri, that more accessible and easily transportable tableau. Their religion, while not the oldest, by far, is one of the lfew longest surviving. We have proof however, not in papyri, but in glyph form, of peoples older than they. Some say the Babylonians, and then the Sumerians, but even then, the dating of their antiquities do not take as back as far as the Egyptians. Unfortunately, Egyptian lore is mostly engraved in stone, lost until the sands of time are parted by man and revealed accordingly.

The texts found are from the 18th Dynasty, but it clearly states that these texts were taken from far older versions.

The biblical texts are no older than 3,000 years, where the stories/myths they tell find their roots in Egyptian hyroglyphs found in Egyptian monuments dating back to the 6th century BCE, which is the early dynastic period, long before the 18th and long before the Jews claim man was made. The stories within the books from Exodus to Song of Solomon are all of the struggles in Egypt between the Egyptian rulers and the emerging power of their highpriests from the 15th dynasty foreward.

All that aside, the Bible is inaccurate anyway as there are several books that have been intentionally omitted (for instance-the Book of Mary Magdeline). The apostles didn't like the fact that Jesus loved his wife as much as he did and they were jealous of this marriage so they just discarded her writings after Jesus' death.

My posts on this thread pertain only to the OT, for two reasons; the NT was written to morph Judaism into something new, where the OT was written to morph Egyptian polytheism into something new and present it as though it was by a people who were not Egyptian; the NT is entirely dependant on the OT, it stands to reason then that where the OT itself is not true in its claims, the NT is even more farcical. This is the underlying conspiracy to religion, it has all been built on a massive lie.

I trust that clears up my position for you.

Originally posted by Ritual
Has anyone ever thought that maybe the pyramids were built in recent history instead of before our time?

Yes, I believe they were among the last handful built.

What proof is there that the pyrmaids existed for so long?

None.

What good has ever come out of studying the pyramids? None. Why do you all care? It is private property. You cant go there and dig. Who cares about some pile of rock.

Nothing unless the Egyptian authorites decide to reveal or to give archaeologists the right to speak freely, allow excavation below the sub-chamber, the causeway where the apis-bull sarcophagi were found, digging in the area surrounding the Collosi of Memnon and Amenhotep III's sites as well as full disclosure on same. for starters.

It is my contention that the Jews were Egyptians who are retelling the very legends we now have available to us from various Egyptian artefacts, but in a manner to suggest they were not in fact Egyptians but a select peoples by God’s grace to which they and only they, are in receipt of his graciousness. They in fact represent all of the varying legends surrounding the Egyptian gods which have come to light via archaeological finds. Rather than continue on at this time with the descendants of Adam, I will jump centuries ahead to provide glaring example.

Egyptian mythology is rife with the battle fro control by the gods. In particular, Osiris has been murdered by his brother Seth and his son Horus by Isis, seeks revenge as well as to claim the rightful heritage of Re-Atum’s (the deity emerging as the supreme god) right hand. I pick up the tale where Isis is angered at Horus being denied same as a result of Seth’s trickery, and so she seeks revenge:

Then Isis came and approached Nemty, the ferryman, as he was sitting near his boat, after she had transformed herself into an old woman who walked with a hobble and (wore) a small golden signet-ring on her hand. She said to him: "It is in order that you might ferry (me) across to the Island in the Middle that I come to you, because it is for the young lad that I have come carrying this bowlful of porridge, since he has been tending some cattle on the Island in the Middle for five days now and is hungry."


He said to her: "I have been told not to ferry any woman across." But she said to him: "It is with reference to Isis that you have been told this which you have (just) mentioned." He said to her: "What will you give me in order that you may be ferried across to the Island in the Middle?" Said Isis to him: "I will give you this cake." He said to her: "What good is it to me, your cake? Is it in exchange for your cake that I should ferry you across to the Island in the Middle when I have been told not to ferry any woman across?" Then she said to him: "I will give you the golden signet-ring which is on (my) hand." And he said to her: "Hand over the golden signet-ring." And she gave it to him. Then he ferried her across to the Island in the Middle.

Now as she was walking under the trees, she looked and saw the Ennead sitting eating bread in the presence of the Universal Lord in his pavilion. Seth looked and saw her when she had come closer from afar. Then she conjured by means of her magic, transforming herself into a maiden whose body was beautiful and whose like did not exist in the entire land. Thereupon he desired her most lecherously.

Seth got right up from sitting eating bread with the Great Ennead and proceeded to overtake her, no one having seen her except himself. Then he stood behind a sycamore tree and called to her. He said to her: "I am here with you, beautiful maiden."

And she said to him: "Respect, my great lord. As for me, I was a wife (living) with a cattleman to whom I bore a son. My husband died, and the lad started tending his father's cattle. But then a stranger came and settled in my stable. He said thus in speaking to my son, 'I shall beat you and confiscate your father's cattle and evict you,' said he in speaking to him. Now it is my desire to have you afford him protection."

Thereupon Seth said to her: "Is it while the son of the male is still living that the cattle are to be given to the stranger?"

And so Isis transformed herself into a kite and flew up and perched on top of an acacia tree. She called to Seth and said to him: "Be ashamed of yourself. It is your own mouth that has said it. It is your own cleverness that has judged you. What comeback do you have now?"

And so he became ashamed and went to where Pre-Harakhti was, (still) ashamed. Then Pre-Harakhti said to him: "What's bothering you still?" Said Seth to him: "That wicked woman has come to me again. She has tricked me again, having transformed herself into a beautiful maiden before my eyes. She said to me, 'As for me, I was a wife (living) with a cattleman. He died, and I bore him a son, who is tending some of his father's cattle. A stranger took lodging in my stable with my son, and I gave him meals. Now after many days following this, the visitor then said to my son, 'I shall beat you and confiscate your father's cattle, and they will become mine,' he said in speaking to my son.' So she said to me."

Then Pre-Harakhti said to him: "And what did you say to her?" And Seth told him: "I said to her, 'Is it while the son of the male is still living that the cattle are to be given to the stranger?' So I said to her: 'This visitor's face should be smitten with a rod, and he should be evicted and your son put in his father's position.

Thereupon Pre-Harakhti said to him: "Now look here, it is you yourself that has judged your own self. What comeback do you have now?"

So Seth said to him: "Have Nemty, the ferryman, brought and severe punishment inflicted upon him, saying, 'Why did you let her be ferried across?' So it shall be said to him."

Then Nemty, the ferryman, was brought before the Ennead, and the forepart of his feet removed. So Nemty abjured gold even to this day in the presence of the Great Ennead, saying: "Gold shall be because of me an abomination unto my city."

Then the Ennead ferried across to the western tract and sat down on the mountain.

Now (afterward) at evening time Pre-Harakhti and Atum, Lord of the Two Lands, the Heliopolitan, wrote to the Ennead, saying: "What are you doing still sitting here? As for the two youths, you will be having them finish their lifetime in the tribunal! When my letter reaches you, you shall place the White Crown upon the head of Horus, son of Isis, and appoint him to the position of his father Osiris."

Thereupon Seth became terribly furious. And so the Ennead said to Seth: "Why have you become so furious? Isn't it in accordance with what Atum, Lord of the Two Lands, the Heliopolitan, and Pre-Harakhti have said that (things) should be carried out?"

Then the White Crown was set upon the head of Horus, son of Isis. Seth, being very angry, let out a loud shriek before the face of this Ennead, saying: "Is it while I am still living as his elder brother that the office is to be awarded to my younger brother?"

Then he took an oath as follows: "The White Crown shall be removed from the head of Horus, son of Isis, and he shall be thrown into the water in order that I may contend with him or the office of Ruler."

Pre-Harakhti acquiesced.

The Biblical equivalent, II Samuel 12. David angered god by committing adultery with Bath-sheba, after which he plotted to send her husband into the front lines of war to have him killed, after which he married her and she bore him a son. His brother Nathan approached him with the following:

And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor.

The rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds:

But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.

And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him.

And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this thing a)shall surely die:

And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity.

And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.

And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; a) thou shalt not die.

Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth.

And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them.

And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead?

But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.

Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the LORD, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.

Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.

And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

This Egyptian story is told in two parts in The Bible, the one relative to the biblical verses above is compared as follows;

-Isis sets out to deceive Seth by turning herself into a beautiful widow.
-David is smitten by a beautiful woman, of whom he makes a widow.
-Seth eats bread before his sister Isis tricks him. David eats bread after his brother Nathan tricks him.
-Isis relays a story about a stranger stealing her son’s cattle. Nathan relays a story about a stranger stealing another’s sheep.
-Seth is angered and condemns the stranger to die. David is angered and condemns the stranger to die.
-Seth learns he is the stranger. David learns he is the stranger.
Previously the crown of lower Egypt was given to Seth. Previously the crown of lower Egypt (Ammon 12:30) was taken by David.
-Seth judged himself. David judged himself.
-The crown was restored to Horus (removed from Seth). The crown passed to the 5th son of David’s with his Hittite and adulterous wife, the widow of Uriah, the daughter of Eliam. The first with her was killed by god, but he loved David (for now) anyway and gave him another with her….Solomon.

Although David was in Jerusalem after having defeated the Egyptians, this Hittite couple was supposedly also coexisting harmoniously with their enemy, the Jews.

a) Seth calls for vengeance “'This visitor's face should be smitten with a rod.” Pre-Harakhti acquiesced. David calls for vengeance “the man that hath done this thing shall surely die. God acquiesced “ thou shalt not die; “

The Egyptian tales continue all through II Samuel, but, all things when relevant.

reply to post by godservant



um i know what they are hiding :]
but i cant tell you if your a jew.

Threads like this should not die.

The information in here is very good and very usefull.
Is there anyone who can tell more about the pyramids?

Maybe they just dont want greedy westerners coming in, destroying their history and stealing everything for themselves, like they always do, trust me Egypts secrets should be the least of your worries.

reply to post by The Breaker


I find your post curious to say the least.

While I visit museums, and am fascinated with works of art thousands of years old, I desire to know the story behind them.

If people did not discover these things, and steal them, we wouldn't know about them at all.

While they should be returned to the place they were discovered, what is wrong with the world having a look at them up close?

Just because these things were born in Egypt, doesn't mean that the rest of the world should not see them.

While you say they are the least of our worries, I counter with saying to you, somebody is making money off of our interest.

Egyptians love us westerners gawking at their history. It is a cash cow for them. So, are you suggesting they cut the rest of the world off from something that makes them money?

Apparently you are unaware that the vast majority of Egyptian artifacts on display around the world were taken out of Egypt during a time when the Egyptiaqn government couldn't control such losses. Many were flat-out stolen, smuggled out and then sold. Some were taken by

Some were simply taken by governments that ruled Egypt through colonial expansionism, like Great Britain for example.

IOW, Egypt gets not one red cent for the majority of Egyptian artifactual displays in museums around the world.


Harte

reply to post by Harte

Exactly - poor Egypt (not to mention Iraq) have been so thoroughly plundered over the ages they need to keep tight control over digs and research. Not just to stop the plunderers, but keep the lunatic fringe "new age" archeologists from destroying a site trying to prove their nutty hypotheses. Although I happen to find Hawass a media hound who should just get out of the way sometimes.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Again I apologize if all of this information is in here somewhere, being new I don't want to search through thousands of threads.

...the Upuaut Project, which took several years and was abruptly concluded by Dr. Zahi Hawass the director of Giza's Pyramid excavations and secretary General of head of Egypt's antiquities department, the Supreme Council of Antiquities, upon his finding a limestone slab with copper bands at the end of one shaft.


...The Symbolic Prophecy of the Great Pyramid" written by H. Spencer Lewis ... spoke of having seen underground tunnels, more subterranean levels, huge sarcophagi and their relation to the Sphinx. As well both Lewis and another authour from 1927/28 presented drawings of the Sphinx and what lies below.



... John Anthony West ... reported that Dr Hawass had recently excavated a deep shaft found under the causeway midway between the Khafre pyramid and the Sphinx. The shaft was over a hundred feet deep, and opened into a kind of pillared chamber. In the middle there was a huge sarcophagus half submerged in water. By its style, Hawass placed the sarcophagus in the Saite Period (around 600 BC) and thought that the whole complex was reminiscent of the description given by Herodotus for the supposed tomb of Khufu. Hawass did not think it was Khufu's tomb but he did believe it might be a (or the) Tomb of Osiris, and in some way connected at least symbolically with the Oseirion at Abydos.

What I found to be interesting, among many other things, and especially noteworthy given the location, is the presence of oversize sarcophagi.

These could namely be evidence of the Nephilim, of which only a few allegedly survived through early Egyptian dynastic times. One can assume that if precious little is said of exactly what lies below, it is for a reason.

At the bottom of this shaft is a rectangular chamber, in the floor of the eastern side of which is another shaft. This descends about 14.00m and terminates in a spacious hall surrounded by seven burial chambers in each of which is a sarcophagus. Two of these sarcophagi, which are of basalt and are monolithic, are so enormous that at first we wondered if they contained the bodies of sacred bulls. In the eastern side of this hall is yet another shaft, about 10.00m deep, but unfortunately it is flooded. Through the clear water we can see that it ends in a colonnaded hall, also having side chambers containing sarcophagi."

What it does not say is what was discovered to be inside those two large sarcophagi. The statement at first we wondered if they contained the bodies of sacred bulls implies that they learned that they did NOT. So why not say what they did contain? You may draw your own conclusions.