How was Jesus' Crucifiction the Ultimate Sacrifice?

reply to post by soldita


Yes but man did not know this. And Jesus as a man did suffer the crucifixion and death to prove that earthly death was not eternal. I know of no other way that this could be proven to me. You also have to realize that it wasn’t until the resurrection that the disciples believed that they had been walking with God. The resurrection eliminated all doubt and gave them the encouragement to spread the word and face extreme persecution.

en.wikipedia.org...

The resurrection proves eternal life if one did not believe this why would they continue to be persecuted.

reply to post by soldita


They were killed by satan, who God gave permission to do so.

reply to post by sacgamer25


I understand the most important part of it all is the resurrection.

But I am more concerned with that whole day, in fact Jesus whole life, being deemed a sacrifice.

If heaven is infinite, Gods time on Earth (Jesus) is almost microscopic. So Him giving his time is no sacrifice.

If Jesus knew he was going to Heaven, him giving his mortal life was no sacrifice either.

Consider that Jesus is said to have lived the only perfect, sinless life. This makes Him the most undeserving of all time for such a horrifying death. As His Father, God also has a perfect Character, with perfect empathy, sympathy, and love. It is the unconditional love for all of us, not just his only Son, that sets the eventual stage.

Fortunately, I personally have learned a great deal about unwavering love for my own children, but because I am not perfect you cannot have either of my kids to use in bartering for a seat in Heaven. Even if they were to choose to accept a martyr's role, I would do whatever is necessary to prevent such a thing from actually occurring.

Only perfection could satisfy the need for a pure covering of our unclean souls, and only a perfect combination of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit would have ever been capable of providing the setting for Christ's sacrifice.

Finally keep this in mind: angels are said to not have future sight, so in the invisible realm at the crucifixion of Christ Jesus I imagine legions of angels and demons. The demons are having their day, but the angels are only waiting for the Battle Call. The order from Heaven that says "Enough!!!" ":Get My Son down and I will heal His wounds". This is an order that could be averted only by a perfect being. An imperfect Heavenly Father, or a perfectly capable and powerful Son in His Own right could have decided enough is enough and through a series of undeniable miracles Jesus could have floated safely down from the cross and landed softly and in perfect health and condition. The ones who put him there could have been eliminated with a wave of His hand which could possibly caused them all to disappear, or signaled the Angels to render the appropriate judgement/punishment, but this would lower the Trinity to the level they needed to prove they are far above. Only perfection could have kept searing emotions in check and allowed this incident to continue when there were probably thousands and thousands of powerful enough invisible witnesses who could have stopped it cold at the first words, the first syllable out of God's mouth saying "stop". Every one of these powerful entities, including Christ and God Himself had to refrain. We know the angels wanted to act, but respected the plan God had put in place before time came into being.

Only perfection all around could have allowed for this to occur and be the significant, soul-saving event it was always meant to be. No room for the smallest of errors, even by the unwitting participants who believed they were stopping a ministry and did not know what they were truly involved in.

Amazing......Amazing.....

reply to post by Lulzaroonie


Fascinating, I was never aware of that "teaching"

reply to post by soldita


You are not grasping the point.. His death was not for himself.. The sacrifice was for mankind.

reply to post by buildingthenations

Everything that happens is God's will.

hmm..I have a problem with that statement..

if everything that happens gods will..why did he bother giving us "free will"...

if everything that happens is God's will.. it would seem he may be a bit on the sado masochistic side..considering there are a lot of very dark disgusting things that happen on this planet.

Maybe I did not understand what you meant,and if you care to explain it further, that might be helpful.

very amazing indeed. Everything done according to God's will.

reply to post by buildingthenations


"the people God had removed were because of their paths in life"

complete contradiction.

I'm sorry but if you don't have these issues resolved yourself, please don't try to resolve them for me.

Originally posted by soldita
reply to post by buildingthenations

 

"the people God had removed were because of their paths in life"

complete contradiction.

I'm sorry but if you don't have these issues resolved yourself, please don't try to resolve them for me.

Well obviously they weren't of God, or they still would have been there correct?

Originally posted by soldita
reply to post by buildingthenations

 

Job's family?

Let’s get this straight we are going say that God was resurrected proving ETERNAL LIFE and then question when he kills someone in the same thread. HMMMMM. So really what you’re saying is God killed these people and they received heaven and eternal life. How exactly was God unjust in this scenario? Bye the way Job was so strong in his faith he would have understood this.

For the Hell and death scenario God admits that not every man is from God and thus they will not return to God. This is my opinion based on the scripture from Mathew below.

Mathew 13 (38-40)
13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the
kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,

39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the
age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at
the end of the age.

41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his
kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

Are you the son of the evil one? Do you cause sin and do evil? My belief is all who can answer no to those 2 questions will be saved. If you are a believer you should be baptized but God makes it clear that unbelievers will be in heaven. I’m sure that will be enough for them to become believers

reply to post by buildingthenations


WHAT SACRIFICE? His mortal death with a guaranteed spot in heaven?

Originally posted by Lulzaroonie

Originally posted by soldita
reply to post by woogleuk

 

I am sure some babies have died without sin before Jesus did. So Jesus needed to die without sin? Otherwise stated, God needed to die without sin?

But didn't God sin, killing people, or because it was God doing it, it wasn't considered a sin?

My issue with this, not what you said, but the whole part about babies, is that even though some babies die without committing sin, one would think they would be entitled to go straight to Heaven, right? Wrong.
If the baby was born out of wedlock, if that baby should die, it would be interred to hell. If the baby born out of wedlock should live to be an adult and have offspring of its own, not only would it still go to hell upon death, but so would 10 generations of it's offspring afterwards.

“No one born of a forbidden union may enter the assembly of the Lord. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord. Deuteronomy 23:2

You have not understood the meaning of this verse. Deuteronomy chapter 23 is talking about the earthly assembly of the Lord, Church. At no time does God say these children would not go to heaven. My mother was told this when her twins died. Whoever taught this thinking was not speaking for God.

Originally posted by soldita
reply to post by buildingthenations

 

WHAT SACRIFICE? His mortal death with a guaranteed spot in heaven?

why do you ask so much about His, "spot in heaven" . God Created heaven, and Jesus is God, so of course he will reside in heaven. Jesus's Crucifixion was for the sins of man, so that we may enter heaven clean and blameless.. it was not for himself, it was a selfless act..

reply to post by Lulzaroonie


There have been a few people that have been to hell and have reported that there aren't any children in hell at all..

A lot of people don't believe that the place is real, but I sure do.

There are so many different opinions on the place that it isn't easy to figure out..

eek first dbl post

reply to post by sacgamer25


"Let’s get this straight we are going say that God was resurrected proving ETERNAL LIFE and then question when he kills someone in the same thread. HMMMMM. So really what you’re saying is God killed these people and they received heaven and eternal life. How exactly was God unjust in this scenario?"

I think you inadvertently made my point. Using the same logic, God/Jesus was killed/sacrificed yet received eternal life, therefore JESUS ONLY SACRIFICED HIS MORTAL TIME ON EARTH.

Originally posted by alienreality
reply to post by Lulzaroonie

 

There have been a few people that have been to hell and have reported that there aren't any children in hell at all..

A lot of people don't believe that the place is real, but I sure do.

There are so many different opinions on the place that it isn't easy to figure out..

Amen to that.

If we look at the bible it appears that one has to be at the age of reason before they can even understand repentance for sin.

I know you want to know what the age of reason is right. Well many different oppinions flying around here but I wonder if the bible has a clue?

The following opinion is not shared by all.

Jesus was baptized at age 30. He tells us we should follow everything he did. If Jesus who was free of sin felt that baptism at 30 was good, why do we pick a different age? It is my opinion that one reaches the age of reason at age 30 and that is why you are to be baptized at 30 if you follow Jesus example. I for one can tell you that I didn’t get the whole repentance thing tell I was 37. I don’t think this gives someone freedom to do as they please tell 30, everyone will be held accountable, but I do believe the more you understand the more accountable you become.

Love
Jesus showed mankind how much God, Jesus is God only in human form, how much God loves us.
We are not asked to do anything to receive Jesus, Yeshua if you like, other than have faith in him loving us so much he was prepared to sacrifice himself for us.
God cant be in a relationship with sin, we are sin. To rectify the problem God poured himself out in to a human and allowed all the worlds sin to be destroyed on his righteousness.
He died to show us that he created us, so he could be with us. God wants a relationship with us. Its insane, but its true.
The relationship between God and man is so important to God that he DIED to show his love for us.
It is Love.

I dont get it, but thats what God through Jesus has done and why he has done it.
Love

The "ultimate sacrifice" points not to the death of christ. it points to where he went after he died.

He spent the three days before the resurrection in hell.

It says he fell. resurrected, and ascended. not he fell and ascended and resurected.

I dont know i put no stock in religion except for reading the books. But its the only way it makes sence to me.