"Occupy Wallstreet," the Communists in sheeps clothing.

My problem is that there is NO DIFFERENCE between capitalism and communism to the little guy, to the worker. Under both systems, all systems that have ever been tried, we must work for someone much richer than us in order to buy food and shelter. What do you call it when you have to work for food and money without a choice and your employer has all the power? Oh yeah, slavery.

When you realize this you realize that the argument between communism and capitalism is another pointless political debate. Its just as useless as democrat-republican.

Ok heres the only difference between the two. Communism means you work for the government to pay for food and shelter. In capitalism you work for businesses to pay for food and shelter. You are not free to in your work in either.

reply to post by doctornamtab


It's why we need to have a free market that is also REGIMENTED by the general public. But nevermind... "unions are commies!" and "regimenting industry is fascist!".

I'm sorry, but I have to sarcastically mock partisan rhetoric and how frequently pseudo-American idiots subscribe to it or my life would have very little meaning.

People would cut off their own feet if keeping it meant that something that their political party labeled as "commie" or "fascist" was going to happen to it.

reply to post by Partisanity


I honestly feel like the anti communist thing is generational. Young people have never known capitalism to work well for them. College kids can't get jobs. They held up their end of the bargain. Capitalism didnt. Young people have invested in themselves and their education but for what? To be the victim of the greed of the top 1%? So the young turn to alternatives which is communism or a form of it.

The idea that we have to choose between 100% capitalism or 100% communism is another form of partisian politics. Its a big a joke as the democrat-republican, my sports team vs your sports team arguments. The answer to our economic problems is not a polar, 100% of any system. Take the good from communism and the good from capitalism and make a new system. Its not that hard. Why not provide free food and shelter for all workers (communism) and have an OPTIONAL market (capitalism) for people who want bigger cars, to own a home, to go on vacations, eat fancy dinners, etc. In this way our very lives are not subject to market fluctuations. Food and shelter are too important to leave to the wild, out of control market.

Capitalism has not worked and is not sustainable. The young know this. We've never known the "glory days" of capitalism and we never will. The young realize that if capitalism continues they wont have a planet to live on. This is why they protest Wall Street. This is why they overthrew dictators in North Africa. It wasn't the old people ranting about how terrible communism is. It was the young, who rant about how terrible capitalism is. And the young are going to win because all these people who use slanderous terms like "red", "pinko" and "commie" are dying. Their capitalist sun is setting. And not soon enough.

reply to post by Mcupobob

I was referring more to the movement it's self and the political agenda that appears to be motivated to push these issues.I do agree that something needs to be done,but what would the Occupiers think if they knew that a world agenda to promote globalism was behind this movement?

Communism is a relatively new invention to the world. Communism was created by the catholic church who festered its inception in South American colonies. It boils down to control of the masses one way or another. It made headlines when it was imposed on the Russian serfs who slipped out of the grasp of influence when Napoleon failed to subjegate them into the system at the turn of the 19th century. The beginning of the 20th century saw the scourge of socialism/communism that was a thousand times worse than Napoleonic rule would have ever been for those hapless Russian serfs. Historical facts, go check em out.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
Communism is a relatively new invention to the world. Communism was created by the catholic church who festered its inception in South American colonies. It boils down to control of the masses one way or another. It made headlines when it was imposed on the Russian serfs who slipped out of the grasp of influence when Napoleon failed to subjegate them into the system at the turn of the 19th century. The beginning of the 20th century saw the scourge of socialism/communism that was a thousand times worse than Napoleonic rule would have ever been for those hapless Russian serfs. Historical facts, go check em out.

Communism as a political party may be new but the social ideas behind it are ancient. In fact, the way our ancestors lived can best be described as communism or anarcho-communism. There was central planning, division of labor, equal sharing of all resources. The main idea behind communism is cooperation. As opposed to capitalism who's main idea is competition. Even a child knows the team that works together and cooperates is the team that wins.

Its actually capitalism which is new to the world. The ideas of human beings competing against each other over small pieces of green paper would be completely foreign to ancient peoples. This is why the people who still live like the ancients must be warred against, defeated, humiliated and destroyed before they succumb to capitalism. Examples include: The Opium Wars against China, The war in Iraq, the War on Drugs in Central and South America, the massacre of North American Indians. I could go on but you already know these were CAPITALIST wars, nothing other than money and profit creating more slaves for the system.

reply to post by doctornamtab

Like a social market economy? Works very successfull here in Germany
We tried fascism and communism before but both were kind of meh JK...
Social market economy made the comeback from a lost worldwar possible and today Germany is considered as EUs powerhouse.
It could still become a little more socially just but it goes in the right direction and I'd recommend it anyways, since it provides a pretty high QoL in general.
Social market economy in Germany
We have alot of things your US right-wingers would consider communism though, like universal health care, a universal educational system and strong worker unions to ensure proper labor laws etc.

reply to post by doctornamtab


I agree pretty much 100%, this is stuff that I thought was common knowledge when I was about 8 years old and now I'm still disappointed that people still don't grasp it after nearly 20 years.

People argue too much with labels.

Everything is "commie this" and "Hitler that".

We established a long, long, time ago that perfection is somewhere in the center of the spectrum.

So why aren't we creating a system out of the better parts of the older systems and cut out the parts that made them fail so hard? Make sturdy rules that allow the public majority to regain control of government industries if they get out of control...

...It's like the baby boomers poured all of their money into education to make us silently sit here and cry about how unknowledgeable everyone else is about history in politics. The solution is so simple, but we all sit here bickering about who is trying to send the country into a "communist utopia pipedream" or a "fascist concentration camp" because "EVERYTHING is a slippery slope of something".

Thankfully the hard, partisan rhetoric-gurgitators are dying off rather quickly.

Originally posted by ColCurious
We have alot of things your US right-wingers would consider communism though, like universal health care, a universal educational system and strong worker unions to ensure proper labor laws etc.

Let those be the last people on Earth to influence your politics.

Bunch of pre-programmed hypocrites with absolutely no desire to change anything unless they get ahead of someone else from it. And they'll probably respond to this with some anti-dem nonsense as if to say that since I'm not in support of the GOP, I clearly support the Obama administration!

You guys all make some really great points!! I will have to agree that neither Capitalism nor Communism has been the overall answer to the human condition. What we need is something in the middle, here in the US it seems we have Socialism for some and straight up Capitalism for others. This is what is causing the problems here in the US, seems to be an identity crisis, a time of political change can also be dangerous in many ways (Russia 1917). We wouldnt want to end up with a Stalin thats for sure and we sure as hell dont need anymore "Reaganomics" killing the middle class either. Where do we go from here? I wish i knew.

reply to post by TinfoilTP


communism came from marxism...

not the catholic church LOL

reply to post by TinfoilTP


Communism (in the government form anyways) is a Jewish creation. The 1917 russian revolution was a Jewish takeover of russia. Not really a secret. (Not that I'm taking up for the catholic church or anything)

As always, when you go too far into one direction, you become lost. The answer always lies in the middle. I agree with the poster who spoke about blending the good things about communism and capitalism to create a new system to go with this new era.

The folks that are clinging to full blown capitalism and by default supporting the crony capitalist system that has destroyed the world only have a little bit of burning rope left before the flame hits the gasoline.

And after that, we'll see whose capitalist pig pride will prevent them from begging for help when you haven't eaten in three days and your child is coming down with an illness.

Originally posted by rbnhd76
Wow, posted at 10:30 and no debunkers, trolls, anarchists or she-devils have been in to debunk?

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened. Sir Winston Churchill

One of my favorite quotes.

I also think they are commies, and the one thing I can't stand more than a commie

a commie? so how would you protest?...by sitting in your underwear in front of a computer, typing on a website blog?
so... if what your saying is true then the tea party protests are by a bunch of commies too.




is two commies...

edit on 26-9-2011 by rbnhd76 because: badumbum.......hey send the she devils my way...

I notice that a lot of the protesters are as anti-corporatism as they are anything else - and personally I think no matter what side of the political spectrum you are on, it needs to be considered that corporations can become a perversion of capitalism and they can overshadow democracy.

JMO

I think our economic system needs to be based on voluntary sharing and shunning.
Right now, IMO, we need to be sharing with the poor as best we can be, and shunning the bankers that make them poor.

The problem is huge income inequality. HUGE.
That was the problem that Ancient Rome had before she fell. It is destabilizing to a country. I am not saying that we should steal their money - but something is wrong that we, the people, put these people on pedestals as our ideals.

Wow, look at him! He's got it ALL.
Big house, nice suit, nice bank account, fast car - I wanna be like HIM.


IMO, we should want to be like people that are warm, caring, generous, smart, and that inspire us.

Everyone knows Edison, and for years we were taught what a great inventor he was Great America Hero!
What about the Teslas? What about the struggling single mom who still manages to volunteer one day a week in the local food kitchen? What about the guy that has come up with the way to grow so much food in a small greenhouse environment with fish?

There's a spiritual poverty in America that needs to be dealt with. It's become so rare, we don't see it when it is right in front of us. You don't HAVE to believe in God to have it - you only have to hold tight to what you believe is good, and desirable in human beings and find it in yourself.

Otherwise people can just keep yelling communism, statism, free market, capitalism, republican,democrat...until the cows come home skinny and dying.

Originally posted by Gwampo
reply to post by TinfoilTP

 

communism came from marxism...

not the catholic church LOL

edit on 27-9-2011 by Gwampo because: (no reason given)

Nope.

Marxism came way after the Jesuits were operating their communes in the European colonies of South America. You might say it evolved out of it as the final product.

what is this thread a troll poll to see how many ats members support people taking a stand against injustice and corruption? doesn't government bailouts and buying debt from private companies go against true capitalism?

reply to post by Daedal


Daedal, Please excuse me while I gush over this thread for a moment...

Good job, good job, good job! I was trying to formulate a decent reply to SkyFloating's recent thread (which I will link) but homework and family took precedence this weekend; so I was so glad to see this.

I learned this the hard way at the DNC in L.A. years ago. I went with my significant other for a photography class project, not to demonstrate. We were all over the place and my girl noticed that other people with cameras were sort of going wherever they wanted so we started doing the same figuring no one would bother us. They didn't. So as we are going around taking pictures we end up near the beginning of the 'protest route' (read: parade route). There was a big truck or something that the organizers had turned in to a sort of 'parade float' and it looked like the idea was that 20 or 30 'protestors' in what looked to be Mardi Gras costumes were going to ride this thing as the centerpiece of their protest march.

On the side of this rig, amongst other signs and banners, was the name of this organizing entity, 'America Now!', or some such. It just did not look right to me; it looked like a big distraction or side show or something. I researched the organization online and lo! and behold they were a communist organization.

I am so sorry that I cannot find these guys online any longer, I have searched and searched. Maybe it will ring a bell for another member and they can help out.

I have never been to another 'protest' of any sort after this.

Thank you, OP, for putting this very important information out for ATS. I sure hope folks are paying attention. Especially young folks as they are very susceptible to this.

SkyFloating's stunning thread...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is a grand opportunity for us all to wakey wakey and smell the bakey. Starve these bastards out. Know who they are and do not participate.

Thanks again.

Keep sticking up for those corporations guys!

Some people on this site are already bought out. Makes me wonder if any of you idiots are even real people or some corporate bot.

Personally... people that stick up for wallstreet vs the average man can go to hell.

The cops using excessive force and arresting people just for videotaping are bought and paid for too.

I think it's funny that at G20's, Wallstreet, or Goldman Sach's headquarters you get the piss beaten out of you for protesting.

I think it's funnier that so called ATSer Average Men would stick up for these scumbags by calling the protestors communists.

Nothing is more anti-commie than protest, so piss off.

The whole "commie" name calling is old and tired and unrealistic. It's an old tactic used when you have nothing better to use.

I think you forget that we have a Capitalist Economy not a Capitalist Gov.

It's funny that people try and tout that either economic system is superior to the other, when, in reality, neither has been tried in its true form. Communism, for example, was obviously manipulated into a tyrannical dictatorship. Capitalism, apparently the only alternative, has been manipulated in this country by the government. Some examples would be the FED, corporate entities have rights that people do not (unlimited campaign donations), and actually the obscenely large tax breaks for corporations (see HR), which according the ideals of capitalism, they shouldn't need.

In true capitalism, the government wouldn't be involved at all. No unions either, most likely. In true communism, there would be no classes and everyone would have everything they need. So as you can see, neither the USSR or the US, has ever used a pure form of capitalism or communism, so its difficult to say if either of those would be the answer, as we have no real, large scale model to base our theory on.

I don't know what the right economic system would be for us, but I can say for sure, this abomination of a system that we use now isn't it.