I Was A Deluded 9/11 OS'er

Originally posted by doryinaz
reply to post by Section31

 

so....you're NOT really a "dead man's advocate" at all, then are you?.....did you get paid for this?.....and if you feel that way, why are you on ATS and reading any of our "looney" stories?.....shouldn't you be reading huffington post or something?

What is with this attitude? If no one objects to Truth Movement views, then it is validated by default, because no one is objecting to it, but if people object, then they must be being paid?

I'm going to be frank. Stop being such an idiot and stay away from attacking the person.

Originally posted by doryinaz
reply to post by Section31

 

so....you're NOT really a "dead man's advocate" at all, then are you?

Wrong 'deadman'. Think Grim Reaper.

Originally posted by doryinaz
reply to post by Section31

 

Did you get paid for this?

Yes. You paid me. Remember?

Too bad you didn't use an intellectual approach. We could have engaged in a more enlightened discussion.

Ok to be quite honest, I lost track of this thread today. Had an itchin' to take the Glock down to the range. Got some anger out

Anyway I'd like to ask some questions to the OS'ers. Maybe they can answer these.

1) Why was Osama Bin Laden named as the perpetrator only HOURS after the attacks, yet never charged officially?

2) Why were there put options placed on the two airlines involved in the attacks on September 10th?

3) Why did it just so happen that the WTC tower attacks happened early, before people were at work? The death toll could have been tens of thousands higher. Wouldn't that have struck a stronger message?

4) Why were certain people warned ahead of time not to fly?

5) Why did Larry Silverstein and his daughter not go to the trade center that day? He had a morning meeting every single day. Yet that day he decided, along with his daughter not to go in?

6) Why did Larry Silverstein sign a 99-year lease on the Trade Centers when it was known that they were terrible buildings that would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to renovate?

7) What happened to all the gold under the towers?

8) Why were there molten piles of steel under the buildings that burned until December?

9) Why is it that 3 of the 4 aircraft all managed to turn off their transponders and turn exactly in radar "holes"? All within minutes of each other? Who was coordinating them?

10) Why did none of the 4 report being trouble by the pilots? Why did none of the 4 punch in the hijack code?

11) Why did several of the hijackers turn up very much alive after 9/11? And no it wasn't simply "the same name".

These are just some of the many many many questions that are out there. I have yet to get a solid straight answer for any of these questions. In fact most of the time I'm told they are just mere coincidences.

Perhaps there is nothing sinister behind 9/11. Perhaps it was just a bunch of Arab terrorists who managed to hijack four planes, and fly them around for over an hour without being intercepted by the strongest military in the world.

Perhaps they were (the "terrorists") able to penetrate DC airspace, THEE most secure airspace in the entire United States.

Perhaps these terrorist were extremely skilled pilots who could pull maneuvers that experienced pilots could not.

Perhaps it is mere coincidence that the military was holding drills of aircraft striking buildings on the exact day, at the exact time that it actually happened.

I believe one of three things happened that day.

1) Nineteen hijackers managed to single handedly defeat United States security measures and succeed in their plans.
2) The United States government aided and allowed this terrorist plot to happen (much like Pearl Harbor)
- or -
3) The United States government and or people conspiring with, perpetrated the greatest terrorist attack in history on its own people, for the gain of corporate giants and the military industrial complex.

reply to post by DerekJR321


2 The put options were found to be totally unrelated.
3 My guess is they wanted to be airborne when the majority of planes were over NYC. I doubt they expected to have 3 out of 4 planes actually make it to their targets. And a burning tower sends a big message. Lots of deaths were secondary.
4 Myth
5 Do you ever take a day off? I thought somewhere was mentioned he had a different engagement that day.
6 He made his millions in realestate. I suspect he knew the numbers better than we do.

It's kinda of funny because something similar happened to me causing me to question the OS. I live in NYC btw, and seeing the towers come down made me say huh? I thought to myself how the hell can something 1/5 or 1/6 of the mass pulverize the other 4/5 or 5/6. But I went along with it, I mean why would our government lie to us about something so serious, and I figured there was way to much coverage for the OS not to be true. Yep naive.

Right around the time that Bush called Iran, Iraq and N Korea the axis of evil, I was like WTF? I started noticing diplomacy pushed aside and aggressive action and words being used more often. I started noticing the pitch of attacking Iraq and that was the last straw. I started looking information about 9/11 and was floored. I literally spend about a good 6 months to a year reading about 9/11 which lead me down a path of conspiracy theory. Once you unlock one piece of a puzzle, it points you to another than another until you realise that the world you believe you live in is a complete fake and is based on layers upon layers of lies and misunformation.

To make a long story short, for about a good 3 years I spent approximately 3-5 hours every day researching what made the world really spin, and I haven't turned back since then. Sometimes I feel like screaming at the top of my lungs, yet at the same time I feel very saddened that many people walking around in their trance really have no clue.

reply to post by DerekJR321


Great questions that I've never heard answers to that made any sense. But when we ask them these questions, they deflect and redirect, yet accuse us of doing the same.

I don't know how many times this has happened to me, I ask friends, acquaintances, & forum folks those questions like molten metal, 3 months of fires, steel buildings never fell from fires, and immediately their ears scramble things around and they say back to me...
"So you think George W. Bush was behind the 9/11 attacks?"

Who said anything about George Bush? Why do their brains immediately go there? It's like a pre-programed response to any 9/11 questioning.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


"People that served", are what?, in some way special?, and, deserving of answers that imply the OS is the truth and that they have not been used and abused by a corrupt government that is nothing more than a domestic terror cell?.
Dream on special person, used, abused, to stupid to say no, too dumb to think beyond what they were told, There is your special person answer.

reply to post by samkent


Please provide links to your answers, if you are going to answer a question please be informative, glib replies you get from spotty teenagers when they cant be bothered, at least in england anyways

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by DerekJR321

 

2 The put options were found to be totally unrelated.
3 My guess is they wanted to be airborne when the majority of planes were over NYC. I doubt they expected to have 3 out of 4 planes actually make it to their targets. And a burning tower sends a big message. Lots of deaths were secondary.
4 Myth
5 Do you ever take a day off? I thought somewhere was mentioned he had a different engagement that day.
6 He made his millions in realestate. I suspect he knew the numbers better than we do.

1) I fail to see how they were totally unrelated. Several things happened. First, there were surges in put option purchases of United and American Airlines. There were also huge surges in the stocks of AXA Group as well as Swiss Re (Munich Re), the two insurance companies that would pay out the billions in insurance losses. There were also put options placed on financial institutions that were damaged in the attack (Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley and Bank of America). There was a big surge in call options for Raytheon (weapons manufacturer). All those "coincidences" certainly raise an eyebrow. They were all tied into 9/11 and they all had unusual trading activity the day before.

3) None of the flight paths of any of the 4 aircraft put them near NY.

American Airlines Flight 11


American Airlines Flight 175


Flight 93


Flight 77


4) Several "important" people were forewarned not to fly. That is not a myth.

One example.

“For Mayor Willie Brown, the first signs that something was amiss came late Monday when he got a call from what he described as his airport security - - a full eight hours before yesterday's string of terrorist attacks -- advising him that Americans should be cautious about their air travel.”

5) Here is a video. I can look at more info if you need.



6) Silverstein Properties, Inc and Westfield America, Inc. leased the WTC for $3.2 billion They already owned Building 7. Their insurance payout was $4.6 billion. He tried for a $7.1 billion payout by trying to argue that each plane strike was a "separate terrorist attack" but Swiss Re won the lawsuit. Still $1.4 billion profit is pretty nice.

TBH im sick of these new surge in 911 threads - i will not voice my convictions since thats not an issue - you people especialy the trolls that come to conspiracy forums and post thier baiting titles and stuff should get a life.

funny thing msm call them truthers - but each one belive in diffirent version so YOU cannot put them into one basket - as for OS'ers the same but with lower variations - they are "patriots" who either lost thier frind at war or are so patriotic that they cannot even concive that there is covere up.

it comes to :
-not all "truthers" are "no planers" or "it was demolision"
-not all "truthers" are for "go kill bush and #"

i dont list os'ers cause i do not belive in such a group - there is only a "patriot" and paid forum spammer or other which i do not undersand.

if You just look at what 911 did to US and FOR US you will see it stinks - how? we will probably never know.
and at that it stops for me - no building 7 no pentagon etc...

hint to researchers - it was 10 years .. go FOIA the footage from pentagon cameras....


AND STOP THESE TOPICS PLZ

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
If we knew who exactly "they" were, they would be lynched.

Some obviously know who they are. It is impossible for something like this to have been executed by one or two people just keeping to themselves. Perhaps by "we" you meant some group outside of those who planned it and were in the know? Who would the "we" be?

Follow the money, interrogate the people in charge of security for the Pentagon & WTC and the skies over NYC from rogue planes.

Who exactly is going to do that and why hasn't it been done in the last 10 years?

Instead, we have Bush and Cheney testifying behind closed doors and not under oath, and no one has lost their jobs because of incompetence of handling the threat in the air on 9/11.
That's how it goes in America.

So you can't follow the money yourself. So you will never know who they were. How then do you expect to convince someone without knowing who "they" are and what "they" did?

Have you ever tried calling people by their names instead of by the stereotype classification you lump them into, like "truthers" and "conspiracy theorists"?
I don't belong to any group, just an American who has seen corruption first hand from medical to corporate laws, and I know the corruption always comes from the top down.

Funny how the opening line of the post talks about what "we" would have done. Who exactly would that 'we" be, if not a group of people of a certain common beliefs?

There is an extremely easy way to prove that the attacks on WTC and Pentagon were an inside job meaning they were planned and perpetrated by the US government and it can be done without any special knowledge about the money, building architectures, NORAD, CIA and FBI procedures or even physics.

Let us assume they were not planned and perpetrated by the US government (this includes the scenario where they knew some terrorists were planning but allowed it to happen to take advantage of it).

Then there is no way the US government would have planned and perpetrated the Anthrax attacks since, as has happened, someone not in the loop might get their hands on the Anthrax after the attacks and determine that it was from within US bioweapons labs itself risking the exposure of the plan and even serious public doubts about the people behind WTC and Pentagon attacks.

Then when the Anthrax attacks came and it was determined it came from the US bioweapons labs, the government would be horrified and people terrorised by the possibility that the US government's own institutions were so easy for terrorists acquire weapons from and distribute so easily. The people would have been screaming for heads to roll and the press relentlessly pursuing the matter until the culprits were indentified and brought to book, the government ordering high level investigations into the security lapses on bioweapons and publicly announcing that steps are being taken to ensure that it doesn't happen.

However, funnily enough as soon as it became clear the anthrax was of US origin, the entire US press without exception lost interest in the matter, as did those pointing fingers at the government for the WTC and Pentagon attacks. The FBI which "investigated" the matter has taken 7 years to name a culprit that too after the person has committed suicide and admitted it has no evidence linking him to the attacks.

Now anyone who claims to believe the FBI version is someone not worth spending even one minute of one's time trying to convince him/her of anything. They are either liars or simply incapable of thinking on their own and coming to any conclusions.

There is only possibility regarding the anthrax attacks. It was planned and executed by the US government. Now this logically contradicts the assumption that the US government did not plan and execute the attacks on WTC and Pentagon.

Anthrax attacks prove that the attacks on WTC and Pentagon were planned and executed by the US government. Done.

However, I find that absolutely no one, including those calling themselves "truthers", wants to discuss the anthrax attacks and want to just ignore it when brought up. That can mean only one thing, every American capable of coming to conclusions based on evidence including the "debunkers" and "truthers" knows that the attacks on WTC and Pentagon were, just like the Anthrax attacks, planned and executed by the US government. This whole game of "truthers" and "debunkers" is just entertainment.

Originally posted by DerekJR321
1) Why was Osama Bin Laden named as the perpetrator only HOURS after the attacks, yet never charged officially?

You cannot charge someone with a murder or crime until you catch them. Even though he had committed a crime, our system of justice goes by the notion - 'you are innocent until proven guilty.'

Originally posted by DerekJR321
3) Why did it just so happen that the WTC tower attacks happened early, before people were at work? The death toll could have been tens of thousands higher. Wouldn't that have struck a stronger message?

Why was the Earth put at this exact spot within our solar system? Even though the terrorists carried out a slightly complex task, that does not mean they are running on all four cylinders.

Originally posted by DerekJR321
5) Why did Larry Silverstein and his daughter not go to the trade center that day? He had a morning meeting every single day. Yet that day he decided, along with his daughter not to go in?

6) Why did Larry Silverstein sign a 99-year lease on the Trade Centers when it was known that they were terrible buildings that would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to renovate?

Why did I decide to wash my car that morning?

Originally posted by DerekJR321
9) Why is it that 3 of the 4 aircraft all managed to turn off their transponders and turn exactly in radar "holes"? All within minutes of each other? Who was coordinating them?

Good question. Was there another terrorist cell within the United States monitoring and coordinating their progress? Since they had an organized and thought out plan, did they use a time table to carry out certain tasks?

Originally posted by DerekJR321
10) Why did none of the 4 report being trouble by the pilots? Why did none of the 4 punch in the hijack code?

Did the terrorists breach the cockpit before they could enter the codes?

I'm not trying to convince anyone here on what they should or should not believe, I simply gave my timeline of events and lunacy I came across in my researching 9/11 and beyond. The videos I posted are in my opinion very good, even the GF videos are amusing to watch from time to time, not taking them seriously of course.

Those videos lead to others, which leads to others, and the information trail is like a bread crumb trail ready to be followed as your mind comes up with new questions. It takes a lot of time, but when you are eager and willing to better yourself through knowledge and wisdom, it's effortless to spend 15 hour days researching. I found it to be more fun than I've ever had just sitting in front of the TV.

Some here can relate to what I'm talking about, others can't, and that's how human civilization has always been it seems. It's also not about the things that divide us, it's about the things we all have in common, that's what we should be focusing on.
We all want the same things.... we want whoever was behind 9/11 to face justice and pay for their actions of murder and terrorism, WHOMEVER that may be, foreign or domestic.

Don't be so afraid to look in our backyards for the burglars in the night, because most burglars are people you know, or who know you and your schedules pretty well.

In my opinion, which doesn't matter much, there are many people on this site and around the world that refuse to look at the facts surrounding 9/11.

Some of those facts show that there was clearly a contrived handling of the events by the media and the government.

Some of those facts, given to use by witnesses, media comments, footage and airline documentation, show that it may be possible the planes used in the attack were........not there. (sorry ATS)

Some of those facts point to much of the aired media on 9/11 was manipulated and proven to be crappy hoaxes.

One of the videos in the OP directly addresses these issues, but it is passed of as a crappy YouTube video and therefore is not good enough to consider in the entirety of the debate.

Much of the amateur footage came from professional video editing and special effects industry people, yet we still call it amateur.

Ok, have it your way ATS!

It seems to me as though this conspiracy site is quickly becoming it's own worst enemy in deciding what is acceptable "truth" for any theory,we are so fast to dismiss theories based on lukewarm reasoning and help perpetuate the paradigm we claim to be against in the process.

Yet most of you cannot debunk the 9/11 debunkers.

"Well, I know it was a plane because I was there and no-plane theories are a disgrace to those who died that day" Many of you make this statement.....yet there is lots of evidence, including one the OP's vids, that show many media and witnesses who cannot recall a plane ever hitting the WTC. Also, isn't that clearly a propaganda technique the OS'ers use? (See the politics forum for good examples)

But instead of looking into the facts and presentations by others, we dismiss it and continue down the line of thinking we already decided to take.

How is that denying ignorance? How are we finding truth when we blow-off any theory we personally find ludicrous? In fact, on a website that allows talk of reptilians and hollow-earth theories with absolutely no evidence, why is it that no-plane theories have been banned....because there is no eveidence?

Hmm, why indeed?

My point is this: You guys are quickly becoming the worst conspiracy theorists ever!

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Perfect. Wish I could leave a one word response but ATS being ATS we can't.... you've succinctly addressed what I've been noticing for some time now. Its why I randomly post and don't even argue my point of view anymore. When it comes down to it, this is just a conspiracy site, we can argue amongst and against each other for a millennium and have very lil chance swaying the other side to our viewpoint,and even if we did, what then? You just got an anonymous person on the internet to agree with you. Its not a victory for either side. I'm a truther, always will be. That being said I can see the points the OSers make, I don't agree with most of them, but I can respect their viewpoint. Lets face it, we're basically all nerds arguing who shot first Han or Greedo lol. Meaning what we argue about on here has little chance of affecting everyday life. If it did, ppl wouldn't look at me crazy when I tell them I'm a member and get my news here

reply to post by sheepslayer247


I think it had something to do with the statements being argued into the ground, and the evidence of eyewitnesses from the ground physically seeing the plane. To say that absolutely every single witness is lying is to imply a conspiracy bigger than any effort ever undertaken in the history of the world, and to control the free-will of hundreds to thousands of people by preventing them from speaking up about being told to say something.

It is just that the no-plane theory relies on the denial of all evidence in order to be true. At least the demolitions theory only rejects interpretations of the event, rather than evidence itself.

reply to post by Varemia

the evidence of eyewitnesses from the ground physically seeing the plane. To say that absolutely every single witness is lying is to imply a conspiracy bigger than any effort ever undertaken in the history of the world

There is no clear agreement between the witnesses as to whether it was a plane, missile or nothing at all. By dismissing the no-plane theory we are dismissing 2/3 of the witnesses. Not just regular folk on the ground, but educated media members as well. How does that fit into a true scientific approach to the events?

It is just that the no-plane theory relies on the denial of all evidence in order to be true. At least the demolitions theory only rejects interpretations of the event, rather than evidence itself.

Isn't it the OS that denies the evidence...possibly? I may consider the no-plane theory among all of the rest, but I do not dismiss it immediately because it contradicts a set of preconceived "facts".

The demolition theory is no different than the no-plane theory. It contradicts what we have been told to believe. It is our job to use the scientific process to weed them out. Yet, after all these years, I don't believe it can be fully eliminated based on certain evidence that is clearly available to all of us.

It's also important to consider the free-will of people who believe in no-plane theories. It is a plausible scenario, given the human lack of the ability to "observe" and how we are easily deceived.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Well, think about it like this. A rock is thrown and crushes in the head of some person. He collapses and dies from the wound. The autopsy shows that a rock caused the damage and killed him. There were 10 witnesses to the event. Four of them say they didn't see any rock, and six of them say they saw a person throw something (four of these six being certain it was a rock).

Now, do you conclude that a rock killed the man, or do you deny the rock's existence and claim that the man was killed by something else?

reply to post by Varemia


Well the autopsy would only show he died from a head wound, not that a rock in particular was the weapon unless we have the rock to prove it.

It could have been a marble, a piece of petrified wood or even a metal item....etc. What you prove is that it is all based on flawed human perception! Do we base our beliefs on what 4 out of 10 say, or do we consider all possibilities until it can be proven without a doubt?

Where is the "rock" to prove the OS theory of planes? Would that be massive amounts of clearly manipulated videos that show a "plane", or the faulty human perception?

Show me the rock.......

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by Varemia

 

Well the autopsy would only show he died from a head wound, not that a rock in particular was the weapon unless we have the rock to prove it.

It could have been a marble, a piece of petrified wood or even a metal item....etc. What you prove is that it is all based on flawed human perception! Do we base our beliefs on what 4 out of 10 say, or do we consider all possibilities until it can be proven without a doubt?

Where is the "rock" to prove the OS theory of planes? Would that be massive amounts of clearly manipulated videos that show a "plane", or the faulty human perception?

Show me the rock.......

edit on 16-9-2011 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)

What about all the plane parts though? And how have you determined that every ounce of evidence is false?

Look at these photos. Towards the bottom you will see a window part, a wheel, and a couple other pieces of the airplane just lying in the streets of New York. Are you going to say those were planted too, or do they count as evidence that a plane hit?

debris.0catch.com...