I Was A Deluded 9/11 OS'er

reply to post by Varemia

One of the biggest issues with the WTC was the fire and the damage to the stairs and elevators. Firefighters being unable to combat the fire in time is a huge problem.

That's funny, because the tapes of their radio transmissions right before the collapse of WTC 1 indicate clearly that they were confident the fire was manageable and that they were ordered out by their commander on the scene.

But none of this argument is important unless you can explain the insider trading that went on in the days before the "attack". Millions of dollars of winnings remain unclaimed to this day. And who were most of these orders placed through? The Duetches Banc. When asked to reveal the names of the speculators, the Banc refused, but in 2008 they got bailout money. Yay!

reply to post by eyesdown

If they needed a false flag to go to war , we all know that it does not take the death of nearly 3000 civillians and the destruction of three sky scrapers and the hijaking of several planes to get public backing, or to make war look just.

As an old # I can tell you that they tried it small a couple of times. The first WTC attack, and the Oklahoma City bombing. But they did not have complete control of the media at that time, nor did they have a leader in Washington who was willing to appear that rabid in order to get the job accomplished. Enter George Jr. the slacker. "Hey baby, what's sex like after Fifty?" He reportedly asked a guest at a fundraiser at his family home once when he was younger. He was drunk at the time.

Before anyone says proof, we are talking about someone who's grandfather was implicated for treason on two separate occasions, that is historical record. And yet both his son and grandson have gone on to become President? Have we all lost our minds? Do we not care about our country? Do we all not know the importance of history?

Sorry got overcome there for a moment. I feel better now.

Originally posted by Ittabena
reply to post by Varemia

 

One of the biggest issues with the WTC was the fire and the damage to the stairs and elevators. Firefighters being unable to combat the fire in time is a huge problem.

That's funny, because the tapes of their radio transmissions right before the collapse of WTC 1 indicate clearly that they were confident the fire was manageable and that they were ordered out by their commander on the scene.

I've heard those radio transmissions. They were on the lowest damaged floors, not in the central damaged area. The stairs were blocked above them.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

I even ask just what evidence you truthers would accept that would finally convince you it really was a terrorist attack, and you truthers universally run away from the question like vampires run away from sunlight.

Evidence? Well, since the evidence involving the insider trading in the days immediately before the "attack" was destroyed during the "attack" I guess that is not possible. But wait, that evidence, SEC evidence, was only going to point a finger at the guilty party, it couldn't have made the insider trading disappear, or show it to be from an innocent and understandable cause, could it?

Yeah I guess that evidence wouldn't do it. I'll have to think about this for a while. Get back to ya.

reply to post by Ittabena


Thanks for your contributions to this thread. We seem to be on the same page with many concepts.

When it comes to Alex Jones, I treat his information like I would with friends of mine. I know he looks into these things he broadcasts, but he's human and makes mistakes. I prefer people I listen to not be so perfect. The gun show thing with AJ seemed like Alex was in the middle of a panic attack and was exhausted, he really wasn't himself that day.

What are your thoughts on the thermite evidence and/or some other kind of disintegration technology being used on the towers?

reply to post by JibbyJedi


This post makes me even more sure that we are on the right track. I know its not the case for all "truthers" but I really appreciate that you gave your personal opinion and didn't just attack and belittle the other side like the OP did in the other thread.

You explained the process you went through to come to your conclusions and then left it up to the reader to decide, which IMO is how it should be. Rather than just calling people idiots for not agreeing with you.

To be able to resolve this or any other issue we need to be able to at least discuss the subject with respect. I know I am not always capable of this and for that I apologise.

SirClem, you are next!
"Thank you."

"Hello, I am SirClem. I am a recovering OS'er."
(Universal applause)

"I was raised on the Kool-Aid called TRUST. Mom and dad drank the Kool-Aid, I was nursed on it. I thought this sweet drink was as natural as child birth. 911 happened, and I thought we were at war. GO USA! Let's get them bastards and make them pay! (Nods of understanding from the crowd).

But, by then, I already had a healthy distrust of the federal government. It wasn't like I automatically thought that the government was involved, just the opposite. But, if it had turned out that the Kool-Aid was TRUTH, then I probably would have forgotten all about those things in the past the federal government had done that pissed me off, like Waco and Ruby Ridge. But 911 actually made me look a little deeper. Like the OKC bombing. Then, I realized the Kool-Aid was FLUORIDATED poison.
(Universal applause and high fives).

I realized I had to go COLD TURKEY to beat this addiction. I had to withdraw from everything it meant to be an OS'er. If I was at a party where they were partaking, I simply declined. Been there, done that. Watching delusional people drunk on the official Kool-Aid is rather depressing if you are not partaking yourself.

Now, I am sober!" (BIG APPLAUSE. The best home brewed beer is brought out for the celebration of the newly awakened. The talk soon turns to those that are still drunk on Kool-Aid and the government shills.)

Originally posted by GoodOlDaveI even ask just what evidence you truthers would accept that would finally convince you it really was a terrorist attack, and you truthers universally run away from the question like vampires run away from sunlight.

Honestly, if the US Govt came out and gave us a version of events that made sense to me and seemed to be them genuinely making themselves vulnerable and accepting responsibility, then I might change my mind.

As an example:

- We actually did shoot that plane down we just lied about it because we didn't think people would accept it.
- We actually did demo those buildings, but only because we knew they would fall over and cause even more wide spread damage. We lied about it because we didn't think you'd accept us doing that.
- We actually did just capitalise on 9/11 and used it to go to war. That was a mistake. Now we need to pull the troops home and start fixing our country and economy.
- Our intelligence agencies were compromised and that led to the attacks happening during our war games. That was a big #up on our behalf.
- Turns out our foreign policy has been terribly flawed for decades. We need to pull out the troops and send in civilian aid to those countries we've destroyed. This will reduce the threat of terrorism.

Anything even remotely like that would make me strongly reconsider my opinion.

So then we need to turn the question on you and ask what would make you change your mind. Ignore if that's already been asked/answered.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

Case in point- William Rodriguez stated he felt an explosion in the floors below him, and also said during testimony that fireballs from the impact came down the elevator shaft like a hammer, forced the elevator down several flights, and severely burned the occupants (who he subsequently rescued). The conspiracy people will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS repeat his "explosions in the basement" testimony but they will NEVER NEVER NEVER repeat his "fireballs down the elevator shaft".

William Rodriguez ended up homeless after 9/11 and is now an activist against the OS. I have seen his interviews and I honestly do not remember anything he said about fireballs coming down the elevator shafts. Do you have a fix on this video?

I do however, remember him saying loud and clear that the explosions in the basement were before the plane hit, something you have neglected to mention, I fear this neglect is not accidental. I also remember clearly him saying that the elevator opened and a man who had been below him exited the elevator with his forearms severely injured, and that it was then that the plane hit. My father was a State Police Officer and he always taught me that "you have to go where the evidence takes you son, but you have to consider all the evidence too." I ask again, can you correct my beliefs on this one matter of Willie and the elevator Fireballs?

The Firefighters I saw interviewed about the lobby destruction could not believe that it came from all the way up at the crash, they literally said it looked like a bomb went off in the lobby. Are you saying that you believe a fireball of hi test kerosene could actually rush all that way down the elevator and still have enough force left to destroy the lobby with explosive force?

I am pretty sure the guys from NYFD are familiar with fire, and even fire in skyscrapers. Probably have classes and training in it too, wouldn't ya think? If what you are suggesting is possible, why would it take these guys by surprise? Why wouldn't they know this?

When I was working around an airport I gave some of this jet airliner fuel to a friend who was using a Kerosene heater. It lasted longer and he didn't have to turn his heater up as high, but it has no real explosive properties, certainly not in an open air fire.

Check out how structurally sound building 7 was minutes before it collapsed...

CBS reporter suggests explosives in Twin Towers Freedom of Information Act video -



I saw fires on 2 floors in a row at different levels, but no where near what it would take to bring that building down by "fires".

reply to post by JibbyJedi

What are your thoughts on the thermite evidence and/or some other kind of disintegration technology being used on the towers?

The molten metal in the basements of the WTC 1 and 2 for over thirty days is to me the biggest evidence of planned demolition. I actually talked to a guy who was a member of a demo company from Arkansas, we were in Mississippi at the time. I talked to him for a few minutes and then I asked him what he thought about the WTCs. Without hesitation he replied "They were pulled"

I remember hearing about a year or so back that it was thermate, a more reactive cousin of thermite that brought it down, and that they went too far with it and that is what caused the unexpected pool of molten metal. Sounded like "oops, new toy!" type of thing.

Actually, what told me something was wrong was when I first saw the buildings come down. When I saw both of them go, the only thing I thought was planned demolition. I am also a WWII history buff and know that no buildings came down in Dresden and we and the British firebombed it for a day and half, causing what is known as a firestorm. People got too close were swept into the blaze by the wind of this storm. What happens is the fire is raging so hard that it exhausts the oxygen in the center and begins to suck it in from it's perimeter. The resulting in rush of fresh air naturally fans the flames which draws it in faster which fans the flames... You get the idea. If that can escalate to a point where it can suck a human into it, well, I would expect some steel to melt there before it would ever melt from a brief fireball of hi test kerosene.

When I became aware of 9/11 I bought the os for a short time until I began to look at the Kean/Zelikow commission's version it just did not sit well with me and I left it at that until Max Cleland began to speak about the stonewalling that the commission was running into and how the other members simply rolled over for the Bush Administration and went along with Phil Zelikow's prepared outline for the OS.

Originally posted by eyesdown
In short , deep down I want to believe that all those people didn't die by the hand of their own government, just so their government could make money from more deaths via war.

Yet,I don't want to walk around blind to the truth either.

In the eyes of TPTB, it's all collateral damage. We've lost over 4,000 us troops since 9/11 and spent about $3 trillion dollars. That's about $1 billion per person for those lost on 9/11. To TPTB, there's no difference between 3,000 civilians and 3,000 military. It's all in the name of achieving their agenda. Remember, true evil has no conscience. That concept is difficult for us "normal" people to grasp. We simply can't understand that indifference to human life. We are nothing more than "assets" in their portfolio and they will manage them to their advantage.

I believed the OS for years. It was only 2 or 3 years ago that I put aside my ideologies and decided to think for myself and consider the evidence. And I think the important thing is, I still don't have an ideology in that I don't presume to know what really happened, by whom and for what purpose. In that respect, I'm as confused as I ever was.

I think there many "assets" and evidence of monumental proportions that they needed to get rid of, particularly at the Pentagon and building 7. I believe there very will could have been trillions of dollars pilfered from the defense budget. It's very possible that China was getting ready to "foreclose" on us and we needed to come up with a few trillion $$ to avoid it. They couldn't possibly let the American people know they sold us out to China and we were no longer sovereign. There are a million scenarios that could have come into play and the crazier they seem, the more likely they are.

reply to post by Varemia


I have heard those too, and they made no mention of blocked stairs, though they likely could have been,, just how many floors do you think were damaged ?? You make it sound like 15-20.

Sorry but you cherry pick garbage as much as anyone,, and all of the video evidence speaks against the OS,,, ALL OF IT.

WOW did i just say VIDEO EVIDENCE ?? BUT THE NIST SAID OTHERWISE ,, OH NOES...

reply to post by Cecilofs


That's a good point and a good question, but first let me say your scenario about pulling the buildings to avoid worse damage, isn't plausible. It takes weeks to wire up a building. Unless perhaps we have a technology, like directed energy that can be used at a moments notice. I don't find that plausible.

Is there anything that would make me "forgive them", if they were complicit in 9/11? We lost 3,000 people, 4,000 more soldiers, tens of thousands of seriously injured soldiers, hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis and the list goes on and on. It would have to be a pretty good story for me to even be mildly understanding.

Originally posted by Cecilofs

Originally posted by GoodOlDaveI even ask just what evidence you truthers would accept that would finally convince you it really was a terrorist attack, and you truthers universally run away from the question like vampires run away from sunlight.

Honestly, if the US Govt came out and gave us a version of events that made sense to me and seemed to be them genuinely making themselves vulnerable and accepting responsibility, then I might change my mind.

As an example:

- We actually did shoot that plane down we just lied about it because we didn't think people would accept it.
- We actually did demo those buildings, but only because we knew they would fall over and cause even more wide spread damage. We lied about it because we didn't think you'd accept us doing that.
- We actually did just capitalise on 9/11 and used it to go to war. That was a mistake. Now we need to pull the troops home and start fixing our country and economy.
- Our intelligence agencies were compromised and that led to the attacks happening during our war games. That was a big #up on our behalf.
- Turns out our foreign policy has been terribly flawed for decades. We need to pull out the troops and send in civilian aid to those countries we've destroyed. This will reduce the threat of terrorism.

Anything even remotely like that would make me strongly reconsider my opinion.

So then we need to turn the question on you and ask what would make you change your mind. Ignore if that's already been asked/answered.

You are making so much sense, I just wish they'd do something like that.
As for dave, forget about him, hell find some other way to smear you, even you are being very reasonable.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
Check out how structurally sound building 7 was minutes before it collapsed...

What about the other side? The side that took the all the damage from the collapse of the towers?

"





I think the guys at Secrecy Kills may have uncovered something huge here.Some people talk about wanting to look into the incompetence of the intelligence community.Then something like the video above shows up they ignore it just because it did not come out from the MSM.

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
Check out how structurally sound building 7 was minutes before it collapsed...

What about the other side? The side that took the all the damage from the collapse of the towers?

Hmmmm, did it look anything like this?




I don't remember that one free falling into it's own footprint.

Well said Jedi all very well said Jedi for an old one like e....who BTW never drinks water...coffee all the way....And believe me there are peeple like me who do not drink water....and we get ridiculed....
i have been at this a longtime meself....but mine comes from well before 911....i was a baby on my moms knne and the jfk thing...now one gets asked what could be your earliest possbbile memory and i was 1/2 old on my moms knee whating live as JFK got shot....now i don't know about others but hey TV was a new thing and the president being on TV was like wow...(black and whtie)..TV was something families would gather around and do like it was the theatre.

then you have apollo missions...and that was a rare time as parents would let their kids stay up for hours on end and watch all the happenings....those were good times and they were also the beginning of the control of the media.....but before tele there was radio...and the famous test of the system....

A wave of mass hysteria seized thousands of radio listeners between 8:15 and 9:30 o'clock last night when a broadcast of a dramatization of H. G. Wells's fantasy, "The War of the Worlds," led thousands to believe that an interplanetary conflict had started with invading Martians spreading wide death and destruction in New Jersey and New York.

SOURCE

well the system they found worked a treat...they could now control the people...they could have us belive anything they wanted to......And people will just blindly believe it .

I was 11yrs when i had seen my first sighting of a UFO...something in the skys that would not fly like this object did but it did.

when i got older i started to learn about this stuff...the way governments control people and how the military's defence systems and technology are 30-40yrs in advance of anything the public gets to ever see.

If one thinks of the technology of the last 30yrs.....imagine the technology that the miltary has at their finger tips now....things you I or the average person doesn't have a chance to comprehend. We are all mushrooms kept in the dark....and only a miniscule part of the population is wisening up to the fact. So 911 con or no con?

to me definately a con.