I Was A Deluded 9/11 Truther

Originally posted by zerozero00

Originally posted by Mcupobob
So is anyone going to try and "Debunk" the OP are we just going to sit back and call him a sheeple or shill?

Can you explain what it is here that needs debunking?

this is just a load of bull with no credability at all.....is this ment to be proof of the OS?

The evidence put forth, I don't see any reason why isn't credible. Explain why the video is wrong instead of just calling bull.

reply to post by Submarines

You took the words right out of my mouth when you talked about this movement taking away from those who were killed and their families, as well as wrongly places blame.

This movement was started, and continues, because those families started it. Who is the one living in a fantasy world where the government openly admits it lied and WE'RE wrong for calling them on it? God I'm so sick of this crap.

Yup, the truthers are all wrong, Muslim terrorists (mostly Saudis) can disable the laws of physics at will, and also have the ability to evade the most sophisticated defense system on earth.

But what about the terrorists who were invited and went, to the whitehouse as guests? What about the fact that teams were actively tracking some of the terrorists and were STOPPED by the government, in their aims to stop this attack? What about the hundreds of pages of redacted information in the reports? What about the fact that the NIST report LAUGHS in the face of physics? What about the fact that the people who actually wrote the 911 commission report called it a fraud and a whitewash and lamented over the fact that the government actively blocked them.

Bah, what a joke, good luck, the only people doing anything detrimental to the 911 victim families are people like YOU who refuse to allow THEM to answer questions.

Only a tiny fringe believes Bush did it
Only a tiny fringe say there were no planes
Only a tiny fringe say the pentagon wasn't hit by a jet

The rest of us, through countless hours of research learned a few things.

the government did indeed have advanced warning that OBL was going to attack the US, AND in the years and weeks leading up to 911 actually drilled for planes being hijacked and crashed into, wait for it, the pentagon, whitehouse, and the WTC.

A massive Israeli spying ring was busted around this time, as well as the famous dancing Israelis. This is not a myth, it's a fact, they were caught with video and still images of them holding up lighters as the first tower burned, celebrating the attack. Key point is they were setup and filming barely minutes after the impact, before anyone actually knew what happened. They were sent back to Israel and on a talk show there confirmed they were sent to "document the event". How exactly do you "document" an event if you are not involved and have no knowledge of it before hand? you can't.

And what about urban moving systems? And what about that other van with Israelis that tested positive for explosive residue, had box cutters and sacks of money and maps?

What about the ISraelis who got advanced warning of the attack via Odigo instant messenger?
What about the put options placed on the airlines used shortly before the attack?
what about the fact that both 911 airports, the madrid train station, and the london tube systems all had the same security company, yup, and Israeli one.

What about the missing 2.3 trillion? (guess where all the auditors and records for THAT investigation were kept? Yup, the exact wing of the pentagon that got hit)

What about the SEC investigation into Enron and the fact that it led right to the whitehouse front door? Ahh, yes, the twin tower attack destroyed all of that too.

And what about the Afghanistan invasion plans drawn up years in advance? Iraq?

what about the blatant lies?

WMDS, we knew there were none as the inspectors confirmed
Mobile bio-chemical labs? Completely made up
Yellow cake? Completely made up (by Israelis)
connection to Al Queda? Didn't exist and couldn't because Saddam and OBL has diametrically opposing views

Yes, someone continually slaps those poor families in the face, but it isn't the people who actually want a real investigation, it's people like you who take it upon themselves to remove that ability.

There are countless "theories" most of which are completely BS and discredited. But you can't use the lunatic fringe theories against those of us sticking to facts.

That guy in the video reminds me of some ex-alcoholic experiencing withdrawal, speaking at an AA meeting and rambling on incoherently about an issue which he knows nothing about. No doubt, "deluded" is quite an improvement from what that guy is experiencing.

Sorry, but will have to take a pass this time around; thanks for the heads up anyway. Always nice to see well meaning concerned individuals looking out for the mental health of others.

reply to post by DBCooper71


I am not even going to make an attempt to debunk everything. We have put out all there is to know about those attacks and how they do not add up, at this point we would just be beating the crap out of a dead horse. Anything we say to you brainwashed goons is just put off as loony and the words of "cultists." You all are so far gone and hopelessly in love with the government that we would just be wasting our breath at this point.

We know the real truth. Have fun believing your official NIST reports and the like. I am done here.

Originally posted by Mcupobob

Originally posted by zerozero00

Originally posted by Mcupobob
So is anyone going to try and "Debunk" the OP are we just going to sit back and call him a sheeple or shill?

Can you explain what it is here that needs debunking?

this is just a load of bull with no credability at all.....is this ment to be proof of the OS?

The evidence put forth, I don't see any reason why isn't credible. Explain why the video is wrong instead of just calling bull.

Ok

Who is this guy 1st please?...you know, so I can check his credentials and all that!


Secondly, Why should I makes pages and pages of evidence to prove this guy is spouting rubbish when talented ATS'ers have already done a fine job in providing this info?

good thread to read if unsure about wtc7

I am sorry but steel buildings simply do not collapse like this, There have been far greater fires and with those fires the buildings slowly crumble away, but never collapse like wtc7....
Steel is strong, we use it for a reason! You are telling me the entire steel frame was weakened and melted because of these fires? That must have been one Huge fire!

Is it so hard to believe that it was a false flag?
Like false flags have never been done before... the word exist for a reason

'For the building to collapse in this fashion, all of the load bearing supports would have had to fail at exactly the same time.' - otherwise it would fall in one particular direction... like ALL other non-demolition collapsing buildings.

If there is one thing truthers AREN'T interested in, its the truth.

Click here to learn more about this warning.

I have a question for you guys who believe our government killed all those people as a "false flag" effort to justify going into other countries and killing them. (Also, I wonder if you are the same folks who believe our government is trying to kill us/alter us by spreading chemicals in the air via any type airplane, and also controlling our minds through some amazing feat of mind control). Are you? Just curious.

Anyway, why do you spend another day on this soil? If I honestly believed I lived in a country that was capable of mass murder of it's own innocent, tax paying citizens, I would be out of here pronto. There is no way I could contine to live in and support a country that I honestly believed was capable of these overt and covert heinous murderous crimes. The world is huge. There are many other places to go. I would leave this country ASAP.

So again, why do you stay here? How do you justify maintaining citizenship in what you perceive as a country capable of murdering it's own citizens? Are you really that different from me, that you would stay in such a country?

**************************

Originally posted by Gannicus
If there is one thing truthers AREN'T interested in, its the truth.

I don't get the rhetoric here....

Truthers as you like to call them get their name from demanding the Truth.....hmmmmm

Soooo where are you coming from with your nonsensical statement?

The opposite of a truther must be a liar, or do I not understand English?

1. After 10 years, and the continued involvement of hundreds to thousands of conspirators -- from the CIA to NIST to the FDNY (who apparently had to lie in interviews about predicting that WTC7 would collapse from the fire; see Firehouse Magazine, April 2002) -- why has not a single credible person come forward, even anonymously, to blow the whistle on this enormous coverup and thereby collect on a guaranteed multimillion dollar book deal with film rights, national heroism, and worldwide fame? 2. If explosives were used to demolish WTC7, why do we not see or hear a SINGLE flash or detonation, as can be found in EVERY video of a controlled demolition? Even more to the point, how is it that before the building starts to move, not one pane of window glass shatters from the shock wave that would have resulted even from a single detonation blast capable of cutting a steel column? No, a couple of "eyewitness accounts" of "explosions" are meaningless. We have video and audio evidence from multiple angles in this case. Video and audio recordings are much more reliable than human accounts and memories. 3. If incendiaries were used to demolish WTC7 -- the first time this has ever been attempted, certainly on a tall building -- how were the incendiaries ignited so as to cut the columns precisely at once, given that incendiaries are non-explosive and burn relatively slowly? Maybe because they used a secret super-efficient military demolition incendiary developed at Area 51 with the help of aliens and Elvis? 4. Why would leaseholder Larry Silverstein "admit" in a videotaped interview that he had ordered the demolition of WTC7? And if he had, why didn't the New York Port Authority sue him for a billion dollars for successfully plotting to destroy one of its most valuable properties? 5. In order to make the collapse "read" more like a catastrophic accident, why didn't the conspirators have WTC7 collapse in pieces, or sideways, or go down slowly a-clunkity-clunk? (If any of those are even physically possible -- Truthers seem to think they are.) Similarly, if they faked plane crashes at the Pentagon and Shanksville, why not scatter more fake debris about so as to dissuade anyone from getting suspicious? 6. Truthers are extremely proud of the 1,500 electrical engineers, chemical engineers, naval engineers, residential architects, students, interns, etc. on their petition at ae911truth.org. Why does this list have any more credibility than the 750 credentialed scientists who endorse intelligent design at dissentingdarwin.org? Why is one list impressive, while the other is dismissed as a bunch of fringe outliers who misrepresent scientific consensus? 7. Why is there no petition of demolition professionals endorsing the controlled-demolition hypothesis? If it's because they're afraid of being assassinated, as Truthers claim happened to car-crash victim Danny Jowenko, a Dutchman who is the only demolition-industry person in the world to have come out in support of the movement -- then why are 1,500 ae911truth "experts" willing to risk their lives? 8. Why hasn't A SINGLE PAPER been published in a peer-reviewed engineering or demolition-industry journal challenging the NIST report or any part of the NIST report? Before you bring up our paint-chip collector friend Steven E. Jones, Bentham Open journals are not peer reviewed; it is a vanity press that charges $800 per article. Google "CRAP Paper Accepted By Journal" for more on Bentham. 9. Why has nobody come up with a plausible alternate theory to explain what happened? In science, you come up with a hypothesis, then you make observations and collect evidence, and then if applicable, you publish a theory supporting the hypothesis with evidence. This is required for the ideas to be scrutinized, and either validated or falsified, by others. The Truthers have no hypothesis except "demolition charges did it." That hypothesis is plainly falsified by the video and audio evidence.

Look, I believe the Government is capable of doing corrupt thing. What I don't believe is that they are competed enough to even pull off something so elaborate. I don't even think they're competed enough to pull off keeping an affair silent en.wikipedia.org...

For instance, how much money would it take to get you to kill 3,000 random, innocent Americans? Or, say you stumbled upon somebody else's plan to kill 3,000 innocent Americans. How much would it take to get you to stay silent afterward?

A hundred dollars? Two hundred? Two hundred fifty?

www.cracked.com...

The 9/11 conspiracy requires the idea that thousands of people are being paid off to keep silent. Now, how come when anyone ties to debunk this conspiracy and puts forth evidence its just unthinkable and illogical!

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
I have a question for you guys who believe our government killed all those people as a "false flag" effort to justify going into other countries and killing them. (Also, I wonder if you are the same folks who believe our government is trying to kill us/alter us by spreading chemicals in the air via any type airplane, and also controlling our minds through some amazing feat of mind control). Are you? Just curious.

Anyway, why do you spend another day on this soil? If I honestly believed I lived in a country that was capable of mass murder of it's own innocent, tax paying citizens, I would be out of here pronto. There is no way I could contine to live in and support a country that I honestly believed was capable of these overt and covert heinous murderous crimes. The world is huge. There are many other places to go. I would leave this country ASAP.

So again, why do you stay here? How do you justify maintaining citizenship in what you perceive as a country capable of murdering it's own citizens? Are you really that different from me, that you would stay in such a country?

**************************

It is the NWO behind this, not your government. The people responsible for this have not been voted in and cannot be voted out.

Wake up American's, your country has been hijacked.

Why must everyone be labled , I hate the term "truther" it grates on me for some reason. Although the truth is what truthers want so i guess it fits. The video in the OP as well articulated as it was, is merely opinion. Good for him if he feels he has reached some decision on things, but he hasn't got all the answers so shouldn't go on like he has. He only try to debunk one thing in his video, or gave one reason why he had changed his mind.
I don't think wether that building collapsed or blew apart is enough to completely dismiss all the other incidents that just don't add up about that day. Sure if there is proof if crumbled due to fire, then it creates a hole in the theory, but it still doesn't mean the US goverment didn't know about it, or didnt give it the go ahead.

reply to post by Mcupobob


So you were a truther and now you're gone ?

reply to post by XplanetX

It is the NWO behind this

And who are they? Who is their leader, and what is his address? Do they have offices in the white house?
Malta? Where?

I think I might like to pay him a visit.

reply to post by DaemusAlphae


"brainwashed goons".... Oh the irony

I agree there's no point flogging a dead horse...it's like trying to convince a committed christian there is no God or an atheist there is one.
When one is so blindly committed to a cause, it's hard to make them look at anything that may contradict they're own beliefs.

P.S. I don't love the government at all...I've been F***ed over by them that many time's, I can't feel nothing but contempt for them.

The most pathetic of changes are from a "deluded 9/11 Truther" to a "in denial Truster".

Demolition experts have already come out and said that WTC7 was a CD, what more can be said.
Because WTC7 is the gateway to 9/11 truth he is attacking it.
Looks like people can wake up and then go nighty night again, and that is very sad.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by XplanetX

 

It is the NWO behind this

And who are they? Who is their leader, and what is his address? Do they have offices in the white house?
Malta? Where?

I think I might like to pay him a visit.

edit on 9/14/2011 by ladyinwaiting because: (no reason given)

Satan.

If the evidence is so overwhelming, that the bush regime committed 9/11, then why doesn't your beloved Ron Paul back you up.

I too was once a big time 9/11 truther and proponent of the existence of the NWO. My consensus in the past was that 9/11 was a plot by the NWO designed as a catalyst for perpetual war between the west and the east to firstly boost arms and oil sales and then secondly to pave way for a eventual western takeover of the Middle East with a view of eventually establishing a one world government.

I read a whole load of books and watched a bunch of online videos that all backed up this theory, then one day I realised that my whole believe was based on a one sided argument. The only sources I ever looked at came from conspiracy literature and revisionist history that often came with a biased conspiracy view. I became aware that the conspiracy movement that I regarded myself to be part of where reaching their conclusions first and then fitting the facts around them to back up their preconceived conclusions. So I looked to the other side of the coin.

There I discovered for instance that the jet fuel didn’t need to melt the steal support columns rather only weaken them, I found a reasonable explanation as to why the flight 93 creator looked the way i did and I also discovered that it was possible that the plane did hit the pentagon as the official story claims. For me however the clincher for my 9/11 believe was that I found it difficult to understand Al’Qa’ida, I couldn’t understand the phenomenon of violent Islamic extremism. I thought it was possible that even if the official story happened just as we are told it happened it was still impossible for Al’Qa’ida to be responsible. One day I was offered to undertake a few extra modules on the history of terrorism at university, there I discovered that there was a much deeper ideological and theological undertone the violent Islamic extremism. I began to understand the nature of the threat, I began to accept that it was not only possible but inevitable that individuals who followed the dogma of violent Islamic extremism would eventually succeed in a massive terrorist attack against the west. I became so fascinated by violent Islamic extremism I decided to read up more on it and terrorism in general, that was a good few years ago and I have read so much about it that I now understand. I am no longer ignorant.

From my own personal experiences I feel I am equipped to argue that at the source of all 9/11 conspiracies lies the curse of ignorance. 9/11 truthers only get their information from other 9/11 truthers, they all believe each other’s lies, they all twist facts, they all here what they want to here and if you don’t agree with them your either a idiot or a disinfo agent. There persona sometimes is comparable to that of a schizophrenic, to the people who are looking in their conspiracies are crazy, but they themselves don’t see it.

I often think of conspiracy theorists as somewhat of a paradox, on the one hand they appear to be very intelligent individuals with a sharp cynical mind yet at the same time appear to be a the gullible child who believes in the existence of the tooth fairy just because the child has been told it is real.