Enough with the dishonest behaviour Truthers - I'm calling you out.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

In case you just ignore this, I'll expand.

His supervisor, who was with him at the time, claims Rodriguez is wrong.

Rodriguez NEVER made these claims to the 9/11 commission (though he DID lie and claim he did)

He's repeatedly lied about the fireball int he shaft, claiming it couldn't have happened, then telling the truth, when it suited his story.

And on and on...

Another lying truther.

I will investigate this. The Reps wanted to decorate man and first he accepted it. He could be rich and famous. He is not a "truther" but found that that kind of people are willing to listen to him.

Possibly you find the following story lying, but then I will close up here because the truth will come out :

MINETA

before the 911 commission:

Quote: Cheney: "The orders still stand" as Flight 77 approaches the Pentagon with no action taken to defend it

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the
Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as
Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the
9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there
was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got
down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice
President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned
and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand.
Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

As the plane was not shot down are we to take it that the orders were to let the plane find its target"

Source: www.prisonplanet.com...

This was reposted on prisonplanet but you can find the original if you research.

However, if you take the position "everybody is lying if the contradict me," your own arguments will be soon dismissed by rational people who still want to work out. From crazy holographs to the idiotic Ben Ladin theory put into the official story (no explanation why the planese were not shot down as they usually are), people will arrive at the truth. It is simply that we are iving in interesting times.
And the psychology is not simple. Re-view the opening video. Nowhere do experts say you have to buy the wildest truth 911 package.

When I lived in the East Bloc, I met people who were fervently defending the old Soviet system. Not because of the good things they actually did, but the things ordinary people disliked (like not being allowed to travel to the West, or lying about '56 as if it was a 'counterrevolution'.

They did that out of FEAR.
Mostly they were fearing that they would lose their cherished beliefs!
That is where the blind one-sidedness comes.

Can you find one simple detail or incident where you made a bridge to a "truther" and said there might be something in what you say?

Partisanship is just hot air.
Merely calling the other party liars is what Israelis and Palestinians routinely do. Finally one will not really credit either group.
And, there were great incentives for those who supported Bush's weak conspiracy theory. Richness, political fame, good image in a country that regards itself patriotic etc. There was absolutely no gain if you went to the other camp. Zilch. You were confronted by angry relatives, people fearful iof the growing power of an absurd madman, fired from jobs, osstraticesd and only surrounded by fringe people who could be --- sometimes that. IS that your social vision or is Silverstein one that got off better from 911?

reply to post by Kokatsi


Ok so... Far from the guy not being a truther he has paraded himself as a spokesperson for the movement repeatedly. He has attempted to sue the US Gov't even for covering us his truther claims.

As for the rest of that: I'm a reformed truther. I have spent many many days talking to truthers in a very open minded way. In fact one of my best of longest friends is a truther. We've civily discussed this dozens of times.

But none of that matters. What matters in the case of Trutherism is the evidence. And the evidence is not on your side.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

But none of that matters. What matters in the case of Trutherism is the evidence. And the evidence is not on your side.

Then why haven't any of my Shanksville threads been debunked?

reply to post by ATH911


Soooooo much of that # has been debunked, you just haven't been paying attention...

For example, all the debris in the lake miles and miles away... debunked...the coroner whose comments made it sound like he supported the truthers, debunked... and on and on...

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


Lol poor guy, still beating that dead horse? Planning on makign a thread 1/1 flags/pages?
Trutherism... I love you fairytalers everyday more and more.

I was going to address something thread related, but as this is just a troll's field day, well, lets feed the poor beast a lil.

reply to post by Saltarello


ok.

well that was a pretty meaningless post.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by Saltarello

 

ok.

well that was a pretty meaningless post.

You mean, like this one?

reply to post by Saltarello


No... mine had a meaning. Its meaning was, "what you posted was meaningless".

See the difference?

1 umm...EXACTLY the same way? One tower lasted almost 2 hours after impact, another less than an hour. How is that EXACTLY the same? You are correct that steel buildings have collapsed before as a result of fire damage, it seems to be the exception rather than the rule though.

2 Despite what you think, it did and does look like a demolition. See point 4 also. I won't bore you with eye-witness testimonial though. You know, all the police, people on the street, firemen, all saying they heard multiple explosions...

3 A semantic point. Top down, belly up...it looks like it was demolished and left a similar footprint behind.

4 Building 7 was demolished. Larry Silverstein youtube clip.

5 Pentagon plane. No photographic evidence exists of a plane (despite all the security cams around) and one witness testimonial was later retracted. A certain taxi driver comes to mind.

6 You seem to be saying not enough active engineers comment on something. I guess they have paid jobs and lives to attend to.

7 I have no clue about the nano-thermite but there is plenty of evidence for some form of thermite being present. Refer to already ignored eye-witness reports of the firemen...not to mention the stuff literally pouring off the outside of the building.

8 I have no idea who Richard Gage is so will skip that one.

9 The pentagon had no missile defense system? Hmm...great googley moogley... "National missile defense". OK, its not Pentagon specific but it was the largest line on their budget books for many a year. Hard to imagine they would forget to protect their own building somehow.

For such a grand title I had expected a lot more substance, facts even. Instead its the same old tired rant. Disappointing to say the least. And you can keep your labels too, I am not a truther, a hoaxer or an OS'er. I'm just me. 2 points to you, 1 abstained and 7 I win.
Peace

reply to post by LightSpeedDriver

9 The pentagon had no missile defense system? Hmm...great googley moogley... "National missile defense". OK, its not Pentagon specific but it was the largest line on their budget books for many a year. Hard to imagine they would forget to protect their own building somehow.

National Missile Defense, was to intercept ballistic missiles. Not hijacked airliners. Which leads us back to the fact that the Pentagon, lies in the approach/departure path of a major airport. Placing anti aircraft defenses in that corridor is one of the all time dumbest ideas yet.

reply to post by vipertech0596


Which explains why so many Truthers believe it.

I can't believe ANYONE is stupid enough to ACTUALLY think the pentagon had a missile defence system... mind blowing.

reply to post by LightSpeedDriver


It's funny, there's another truther on here arguing almost exactly the opposite points as you and reaching the same conclusions... which pretty much sums it up...

As far as the taxi guy... there's dozens of witnesses to the plane at the Pentagon. It;s been posted many times.

As far as AE911, One out of every thousands is a meaningless number. I'm sure 1/1000 movie critics that saw Howard the Duck liked it, but if I told you that proved it was a good movie you'd laugh at me. And rightly so.

As far as the other 999/1000 being too busy, I'm sure at least some of them coulda found a spare moment, IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, if they were so inclined.

On top of all of that, AE911 has posted stuff about "government mind control stooges" on their website... do you believe they have evidence the government is using mind control? Go on, answer the question.

Or is this very respectable organisation made up of the fringes of the profession actually just a bunch of crackpots?

BTW: here's one of the Engineers that signed...

www.etcorngods.com...

here's his backgroud (which is very impressive btw)

www.etcorngods.com...

I guess, as he's such a crazy good engineer you're gonna believe his theories?

1/1000 people (closer to 1/100,000 if you factor in retired folks and make it world wide) in ANY profession are gonna be nuts. This group of nuts just happened to find a way to convince people they're crazy beliefs are real, by invoking a logical fallacy called "appealing to authority". Look it up.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious

I repeat, I am not a truther. Stick your labels on your own property please.

Is there proof the government used mind-control. Actually yes. On 9/11 probably not but I didn't see your OP mention that. MK-Ultra and its many related projects. Its went on for decades and of course they have destroyed most of the records but there are still some left behind that we can piece together a little of what happened. Names like Lee Harvey Oswald, the Unabomber, volunteers from various universities and a certain "Spook Prison" are a small part of that but OT in this thread.

Now, to that plane. I don't doubt they saw something and it may well have been a plane but here's the 64 million dollar question. Why did the ....(I always get these 2 muddled up, sorry) CIA or FBI go out of their way to confiscate all cam footage in that area? Even going so far as to confiscate tapes from a nearby gas station, if my memory serves? If there is nothing to hide, why hide it? 4 or 5 frames post-explosion just removes credibility from supposedly one of the most advanced, effective and innovative intelligence agencies in the world.

I notice you didn't comment on the Larry Silverstein video though. Why would the leaseholder of Building 7 say such a thing? As leaseholder and not owner, was that legally speaking his call to make? How did they manage to demolish it so quickly with everything else still going on around them? Go on, answer those ones..

All in all you have done nothing to prove anything, except the many questions that still remain inadequately answered. Questions whose answers often don't quite seem to fit the facts. All I know is that something is up.

A quote from a man much more intelligent than I:
"No country can be well governed unless its citizens, as a body, keep religiously before their minds that they are the guardians of the Law and that Congress is only the machinery for its execution, nothing more."
Mark Twain

In other words, question, question, question everything. If you don't like the answers, ask another question. I think that is what a lot of us here are doing. The truth will stand on its own without any help, if its the truth.

I have no desire to comment on the whole engineers thing, and it wasn't "them" that alerted me to the things that aren't right about the Official Story. I just replied to your OP.

Dunno about nuts, but "they say" 4% of all people everywhere are psychopaths. Wiki says they call it Anti-Social Personality Disorder these days, meaning I guess they are not technically all the murdering type which the word used to mean when I was young. But, get enough of these people in the wrong positions of power and its not a good thing imho. They say that the world is ruled by either 1% or 0.1% of the total population. That 4% starts making a little more contextual sense now...

Peace

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by vipertech0596

 

Which explains why so many Truthers believe it.

I can't believe ANYONE is stupid enough to ACTUALLY think the pentagon had a missile defence system... mind blowing.

Excuse my stupidity (that really adds credence to your argument)

National missile defense (NMD) is a generic term for a type of missile defense intended to shield an entire country against incoming missiles, such as intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBMs) or other ballistic missiles. Interception might be by anti-ballistic missiles or directed-energy weapons such as lasers. Interception might occur near the launch point (boost phase), during flight through space (mid-course phase), or during atmospheric descent (terminal phase).

Now, which of the above listed things could take a plane down if needed? Well a missile can, if it can take down another missile it can certainly take down a plane. A directed energy weapon such as a laser too. I can only go on the information given which I would imagine it being wikipedia is not the full information. I have no idea as to the exact number of satellites orbiting this planet but 1500+ vaguely rings a bell in my head. Most are probably for nefarious purposes, the whole spy-satellite thing. Are you really going to claim that the country who spends the most money on "the military" couldn't at least theoretically have advanced weapons they aren't going to talk about?

Now thats what I call stupid.

reply to post by LightSpeedDriver


You start off talking sense and then it all goes downhill...

Yes, that's a good description of the system that is often confused with a missle defense system for the pentagon, but that's it.

There's no evidence the Pentagon has a futuristic defense system and that's never what the Truthers refrence...

It's fully explained here:
www.jod911.com...

It's a great example of Truthers lies.

A French Truther made something up, and inaccurately footnotes some BS. This then gets rewritten and "published" in a "peer-reviewed" (reviewed by other Truthers) publication. Suddenly this thing, not based on anything, and with NO evidence, is turned into "fact". Suddenly Truthers say # like:

It has to be true:

There's two sources
One of them is a peer reviewed journal

Of course, five minutes of poking around reveals it ALL to be a lie.

Not a mistake, but a lie.

Another Truther lie, spread and amplified by more truthers, and then all the lies are used as evidence to back each other up... Kind like a mobster, whose alibi is more mobsters...

If you go read that you'll see:

1 French Truther makes something up
2 America Truther rewrites it
3 More American Truthers spread it online
4 It morphs from missiles, automated to fire on any non-military aircraft, to batteries of machine guns

And on and on...

Actual evidence presented? Total. None. Not a single piece. Ever.

Number of times truthers state it as fact? Hundreds, maybe thousands.

So much for the "Truth" movement.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


well, I am sooooooooooo glad you cleared it all up for us!...................you are wrong.....but, enjoy those rose colored glasses and have a nice life

reply to post by doryinaz


This is where, if I was a Truther, I'd get all holier than though and say, "you haven't provided any links and probably a shill for the Truther movement... nice try shill"...

But instead I'll say:

How exactly am I wrong?

Do you think the Pentagon has a defensive missile/machine gun system?

Do you have any proof?

Would you share that wonderful proof with us?

reply to post by LightSpeedDriver


AE9/11 claimed that the reason their press conference was bumped out of the headlines was because the government "flew a mind control" stooge into a building in TX.

Do you think that's a rational explanation?

Do you think they had proof of that claim?

???

As for Larry Silverstein



And here's an example of Truthers editing video to manipulate you:

whatreallyhappened.com...

Watch the "pull" is demo term video... and you'll see where they edited it to prevent you from knowing the truth.

More "trutherism" in action.