3 Face Hazing Charges After Marine Commits Suicide

reply to post by CryHavoc

Yes, this charge is correct. Failing to properly teach a Marine how to stay awake on watch instead of making him hate his team and his own life. Obviously Lew's superiors didn't succeed at any of the "training" they were trying to show him. Obviously his superiors couldn't communicate effectively. Once is a mistake, twice is a problem. After the second time of catching him, I would have sent him to sick call - and told him not to come back until he could physically do his job. At least to have the Corpsmen find out if there was anything physically wrong. And they might have caught something mentally wrong as well. Why would he give a damn about the lives of people who were crapping on him - they didn't give a damn about him. I'm surprised he didn't take any of them with him when he killed himself. In fact after reading the whole article, I have to wonder just who's side they were on.

Thank you for such a refreshing post...

funny you should mention ..whos side were they on anyhow..? Besides the medical reason..there is also the possibility that he was mildly drugged....and it was really some kind of sic game...

I would hope like crazy that wouldn't be the case...but there are some sick individuals out there..who are cold and hard and callous..and delight in bullying,and causing pain..and make games out of it.... and yes they do end up in the military.

Cryhavoc..I'm going to hope the majority of military are like you..and would watch out for all their fellow soldiers, and perform disciplining with a constructive ,and effective method.

reply to post by ShadeWolf


It appears they need to hand out Retalin to their soldiers like the Nazis did in WW2

Originally posted by gabby2011
I won't pretend to understand how certain behaviors are allowed in the military...

( the story of the private who was made to bark like a dog while his commanding officers urinated on him comes to mind)..believe there was a lawsuit over that one.

I guess we've come a long way from shooting to death anyone who fell asleep on command.... but I wonder if being beaten by your fellow soldiers , and also having to participate in beating them , not to mention the psychological mind games , isn't much more psychologically damaging....with serious long term repercussions, that could affect a lot of people.

Yes, because everyone agrees that it is perfectly acceptable to urinate on someone. How stupid do you think the average reader here is?

How can you compare that to punishing a guy for not doing his job? He's lucky he can fail and only get hazed, most people today lose their job and don't find another one. Then they live off the welfare system and complain about it and on everyones behalf whether they like it or not. Then they get an account on a CT website and write sensationalist replies that skew the facts in the favor of their own happily narrow frame of reference.

I guess drawing conclusions from blind speculation can be fun.

reply to post by sbctinfantry

I guess drawing conclusions from blind speculation can be fun.

My conclusions are hardly drawn on speculation..but real stories..from real people..that have told me in person..or through the news..such as the case in question in the op.

From these very REAL stories I have concluded that there are some very questionable behaviors within the military system...and they can lead to some very broken soldiers...with a twisted view on what is acceptable..

reply to post by ShadeWolf


Could you fall asleep if you were on duty in a warzone and could have people sneaking up to kill you?
No neither could I. So it begs the question, was there any danger there?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by ShadeWolf

 

Could you fall asleep if you were on duty in a warzone and could have people sneaking up to kill you?
No neither could I. So it begs the question, was there any danger there?

I remember many times going for 16 hours straight and having to take a break in a house we cleared. Some of the guys pop their vests open inside and let the steam fly off while the other guys guard each entrance. If you fall asleep, you're all dead.

Some of us served overseas and every time we rolled outside the wire we were in danger. Sticking together, working together and watching eachother's back ensured our safety.

Originally posted by sbctinfantry


Some of us served overseas and every time we rolled outside the wire we were in danger. Sticking together, working together and watching eachother's back ensured our safety.

I admit, I was never in the military, so i am sure lots of you will blow off what I have to say... Hey I was not there so my opinion does not matter right?

I guess I am just having trouble understanding where beating the hell out of some one for screwing up, when there are other, options available ( demotion etc.. pay decrease etc...) fits in with ensuring each others safety.

Call me crazy, but beating the hell out of some one who is supposed to be watching out for you seems stupid.

yeah, I don't have the military mindset, but maybe that is good. I would not really feel like watching your back if you beat the hell out of me either. can you blame me?


yes, you all count on each other for survival. This is very true... So when one screws up you beat the hell out of him? This actually encourages them to help the team more? The military mindset.... well... I guess I should not be surprised by it....

Tell me you can at least understand where I am coming from.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by ShadeWolf

 

Could you fall asleep if you were on duty in a warzone and could have people sneaking up to kill you?
No neither could I. So it begs the question, was there any danger there?

That's an extremely valid point. It's obvious Lew wasn't afraid of dying - he took his own life. It should have been a warning sign if he wasn't afraid of anyone else killing him by not staying awake on watch. He wasn't scared of the danger that everyone else was upset about.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by sbctinfantry


Some of us served overseas and every time we rolled outside the wire we were in danger. Sticking together, working together and watching eachother's back ensured our safety.

I admit, I was never in the military, so i am sure lots of you will blow off what I have to say... Hey I was not there so my opinion does not matter right?

I guess I am just having trouble understanding where beating the hell out of some one for screwing up, when there are other, options available ( demotion etc.. pay decrease etc...) fits in with ensuring each others safety.

Call me crazy, but beating the hell out of some one who is supposed to be watching out for you seems stupid.

yeah, I don't have the military mindset, but maybe that is good. I would not really feel like watching your back if you beat the hell out of me either. can you blame me?


yes, you all count on each other for survival. This is very true... So when one screws up you beat the hell out of him? This actually encourages them to help the team more? The military mindset.... well... I guess I should not be surprised by it....

Tell me you can at least understand where I am coming from.

edit on 12-9-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

The average person is not capable of understanding the gravity of something like falling asleep on guard. Your buddy isn't just your buddy, he's got a family. You don't think a whoopin is better than having him live with the regret of letting the fathers, brothers and sons die?

Sometimes it takes that to get through to people. It is 100% fact that not a single green soldier knows the scope of the job they signed up for until the bullets start flying. It is best to get all the kinks out of the hose before you fight a fire, so to speak. Some things are only learned with experience, and sometimes a soldier is resistant to training. I garuntee anyone falling asleep multiple times has larger issues that aren't being discussed. That's the great thing about the military, selflessness. The military will bear the media hype, and not tell you how horrible a soldier really was, and how many lives he put in danger. They aren't out to be right, they're out to win wars.

Some people look at everything from their own narrow perspective, the military has to keep you alive, and defeat the enemy. That's their mission, and say what you want, it's working just fine. If this guy killed himself, didn't seek the ample psychological help, and was a bad apple, the world is lighter.

I don't expect you to see my point of view, or any other veteran's point of view. We all know what it takes to survive and the unluckiest of us bear the burden of our dead brothers every night. I would rather some punk kid hate me than have him live with the truth that his actions, or lack thereof, killed people.

Some people can't handle the military lifestyle, and got in over their heads. Some are mature enough to deal with it and remember not to reup. Some learn to deal with it and become very successful in any and all of their endeavors, and some people blow their brains out.

I'll tell you this. Even if you do everything right, people die. People die in your arms, they die in front of you. They die in spite of your best efforts and actions. It's hard enough to live with, it's not easy to live with a soldier's suicide. It's also not possible to be perfect. The of us that have been around the block deal with it in different ways for the rest of our lives. It's sad he tapped out, it's even more sad that the military gets blamed for it. If he couldn't handle the stress, I doubt he would have made it long in any profession.