3 Face Hazing Charges After Marine Commits Suicide

3 Face Hazing Charges After Marine Commits Suicide

news.yahoo.com

KANEOHE BAY, Hawaii (AP) — A military court hearing for three Marines accused of hazing a fellow Marine who later committed suicide in Afghanistan focused Thursday on whether the accused intended to harm the deceased or discipline him so he would stop falling asleep while on watch duty.

The Marines are charged with "wrongfully humiliating and demeaning" 21-year-old Lance Cpl. Harry Lew, of Santa Clara, Calif., who shot himself with a machine gun April 3 in the Helmand province of Afghanistan.

Lew had been caught sleeping on duty multiple times at the remote Gowragi Patrol Base close

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This one is gonna be tough. He was an idiot for falling asleep on watch repeatedly, but did the others go too far trying to get him to shape up? Honestly, looking at the UCMJ, falling asleep on sentry duty is punishable by death, so I really don't think this was too far out. He couldn't handle field duty, so he snapped.

news.yahoo.com
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When your life is on the line and you have someone risking your life, you will haze them too. Obviously this person had issues but to blame suicide on other people is just stupid.

They should be tried and jailed for failing to keep their battle buddy safe. Soldiers can be very mean to one another, which is age old, but you as a soldier need to know if everyone playing the game can handle it. if not, then this happens. big boy world, big boy games. Hey OP have you served?

reply to post by PLASIFISK


Nope. Way I see it, though, if you're out there on the line and responsible for your buddies, you stay awake. It's not that hard to do.

I fell asleep on guard duty once. I was stood at parade rest ( feet shoulder with apart, hands behind the back clasped ) and the entire platoon took turns beating me. I had been awake for 3 days during sustained combat operations in the most dangerous place (at the time) in Iraq. My nap was all of ten minutes, just long enough to let my guard down and get caught (just like an enemy would have).

The first day I arrived at my unit, in Iraq, I was hazed from 1500hrs to breakfast chow. It was the most miserable experience of my life, but my team leader said something to me shortly after. Verbatim :

"Hey man, I didn't want to do that and it was almost as hard for me. Tomorrow we're rolling out and we needed to know what you were made of. Let us help you clean all your gear and get chow."

I was so exhausted I said no, but they forced me. To be honest, I was a little scared to be around them. We had a great breakfast, and I was sore for a week.

I also am still alive to this day, and so are they.

I wonder what the real story is... we will never know..why he even repeatedly fell asleep ..(maybe a health issue..?)

Maybe someone made it look like a suicide?

Sounds like he had a rough go of it.. and I hope he is resting somewhere in the spirit of love..

Sure beats this crazy f****** up world ...

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
When your life is on the line and you have someone risking your life, you will haze them too. Obviously this person had issues but to blame suicide on other people is just stupid.

Wrong. You don't haze them, you move them to another duty. Hazing doesn't fix anything. Its just fun to do when all persons involved agree to the rules. Now what you are thinking of is punishment. I agree that falling asleep while on duty should have a stern punishment in the form of a chapter. loss of time and money usually fixes the problem.

Originally posted by sbctinfantry
I fell asleep on guard duty once. I was stood at parade rest ( feet shoulder with apart, hands behind the back clasped ) and the entire platoon took turns beating me. I had been awake for 3 days during sustained combat operations in the most dangerous place (at the time) in Iraq. My nap was all of ten minutes, just long enough to let my guard down and get caught (just like an enemy would have).

The first day I arrived at my unit, in Iraq, I was hazed from 1500hrs to breakfast chow. It was the most miserable experience of my life, but my team leader said something to me shortly after. Verbatim :

"Hey man, I didn't want to do that and it was almost as hard for me. Tomorrow we're rolling out and we needed to know what you were made of. Let us help you clean all your gear and get chow."

I was so exhausted I said no, but they forced me. To be honest, I was a little scared to be around them. We had a great breakfast, and I was sore for a week.

I also am still alive to this day, and so are they.

edit on 2011/9/11 by sbctinfantry because: (no reason given)

thank you for verifying what I have heard and suspected about the military..

They are not my heroes...and sound like a bunch of twisted morons.. who get off on pain..

Any organization who can allow everyone to give a beating to their fellow soldiers... is totally screwed in the mind.

The excuse was BS..

Originally posted by ShadeWolf
reply to post by PLASIFISK

 

Nope. Way I see it, though, if you're out there on the line and responsible for your buddies, you stay awake. It's not that hard to do.

the soldier is responsible to do so, however it can be hard to if you don't have the discipline to do so, the time management skills to facilitate, or proper planning from the leadership to know not to put a soldier on the line for a 24 hour shift that just completed a 12 hour shift with less then 2 hours rest in between.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
When your life is on the line and you have someone risking your life, you will haze them too. Obviously this person had issues but to blame suicide on other people is just stupid.

Wrong. You don't haze them, you move them to another duty. Hazing doesn't fix anything. Its just fun to do when all persons involved agree to the rules. Now what you are thinking of is punishment. I agree that falling asleep while on duty should have a stern punishment in the form of a chapter. loss of time and money usually fixes the problem.

It's only hazing when someone calls it hazing. No one does it for fun or kicks. There have been times where I or someone else has stepped in and said it was excessive, but never unwarranted. Anyone behaving in that sort of fashion is not in charge of themselves, much less anyone else.

You either never served, never served in a combat environment, or were babied and coddled during your service. If you had served, you know that IG will be quick to label something hazing when it is, in fact, corrective training. Corrective training in a combat zone is very different than in the rear or non-combat roles.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, so take off your rose colored glasses.

Originally posted by gabby2011
thank you for verifying what I have heard and suspected about the military..

They are not my heroes...and sound like a bunch of twisted morons.. who get off on pain..

Any organization who can allow everyone to give a beating to their fellow soldiers... is totally screwed in the mind.

The excuse was BS..

Go join and learn the truth. Once you realize your life is in the hands of the guy next to you, you need to know if that's a good situation or not.

Anyone falling asleep regularly doesn't care about my welfare, my buddie's welfare or coming home alive.

Some people just don't get it until the bullets start flying. When the threat of death, capture, beheading, and dissapearing is over your head, you won't be so PC.

Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by sbctinfantry
I fell asleep on guard duty once. I was stood at parade rest ( feet shoulder with apart, hands behind the back clasped ) and the entire platoon took turns beating me. I had been awake for 3 days during sustained combat operations in the most dangerous place (at the time) in Iraq. My nap was all of ten minutes, just long enough to let my guard down and get caught (just like an enemy would have).

The first day I arrived at my unit, in Iraq, I was hazed from 1500hrs to breakfast chow. It was the most miserable experience of my life, but my team leader said something to me shortly after. Verbatim :

"Hey man, I didn't want to do that and it was almost as hard for me. Tomorrow we're rolling out and we needed to know what you were made of. Let us help you clean all your gear and get chow."

I was so exhausted I said no, but they forced me. To be honest, I was a little scared to be around them. We had a great breakfast, and I was sore for a week.

I also am still alive to this day, and so are they.

edit on 2011/9/11 by sbctinfantry because: (no reason given)

thank you for verifying what I have heard and suspected about the military..

They are not my heroes...and sound like a bunch of twisted morons.. who get off on pain..

Any organization who can allow everyone to give a beating to their fellow soldiers... is totally screwed in the mind.

The excuse was BS..

SBCTinfantry ,

I'm sorry that happen to you. Sounds like your unit needs to undergo some serious changes, starting with your leadership allowing it. I'm Aviation and we take care of each other to the fullest.

now as to us not being your hero - so be it, us being twisted morons - so be it. You have the right to be a total idiot if you like. Have fun with that.

I'm alive to this day because of situations like that. I've fired my PL in the middle of a firefight, never to see or hear from him again. I've 'assaulted' superiors and put them in their place because they were not up to standard both outside the wire and back home.

I made waves, not friends. My friends were outside of work, and my coworkers stayed alive.

I figured you were in some outfit like aviation.

If it can be proven that three are guilty of hazing then by all means prosecute. Hazing is against the law in the military and has been for sometime. Now, I am not saying that it does not go on because it does. Tight nit units like to handle problems amongst themselves instead of involving the higher chain of command. Any infraction reflects poorly on all of them. They are trained to practice teamwork, and correcting mistakes amongst themselves is part of it. The nature of the hazing comes into question, because sometimes it is purely psychological and other times it can get physical. Was it harsh constructive criticism or could it have been considered demeaning and abuse? If it is the latter, then it could be considered hazing. I am not trying to rationalize the behavior being alleged against the Marines, but the practice is illegal. The issue is a slippery slope. We have a lot of them these days.

On the flip side, his actions could have severely jeopardized the lives of his fellow Marines if the enemy tried to storm the wire while he was asleep on watch. The Taliban has been known to make attempts at breaching the wire on numerous occasions, and his alleged dereliction of duty could have resulted in disaster. Sleeping on watch has always been punishable by death according the Uniform Code of Military Justice, but that practice has not been used since probably WWII?

His chronic sleeping could have been a result of dehydration, substandard dietary practices, insomnia brought on by stress, or a undiagnosed medical malady? At the very least, this Marine should have gone to medical in attempt to rectify the matter, or his buddies should have insisted that he go. Again once his case is brought before medical or to the attention of a superior officer it will bring into question the leadership of his NCOs. Its a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario for not only the person that committed suicide, but for the people in his unit. No one should be subjected to psychological or physical abuse, or subjected to maltreatment to correct a problem in the military or anywhere. There are plenty of avenues to take that are much more amicable for all involved than hazing. These Marines being charged may have jeopardized their careers?

reply to post by PLASIFISK

now as to us not being your hero - so be it, us being twisted morons - so be it. You have the right to be a total idiot if you like. Have fun with that.

I'm sure not everyone in the military is twisted.. but I have heard enough from people who were in it..and decided to leave..to know that they are NOT my heroes.

If that makes me a total idiot..so be it..

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
When your life is on the line and you have someone risking your life, you will haze them too. Obviously this person had issues but to blame suicide on other people is just stupid.

The whole hazing culture from the military/sports teams/college is utterly retarded and juvenile.

They are lucky he didnt kill them first and if someone has previously beaten me, theres no way Id put my life on the like for them.

So how does beating someone so badly that they want to kill themselves help? They actually put themselves in more danger.

Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Originally posted by PLASIFISK

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
When your life is on the line and you have someone risking your life, you will haze them too. Obviously this person had issues but to blame suicide on other people is just stupid.

Wrong. You don't haze them, you move them to another duty. Hazing doesn't fix anything. Its just fun to do when all persons involved agree to the rules. Now what you are thinking of is punishment. I agree that falling asleep while on duty should have a stern punishment in the form of a chapter. loss of time and money usually fixes the problem.

It's only hazing when someone calls it hazing. No one does it for fun or kicks. There have been times where I or someone else has stepped in and said it was excessive, but never unwarranted. Anyone behaving in that sort of fashion is not in charge of themselves, much less anyone else.

You either never served, never served in a combat environment, or were babied and coddled during your service. If you had served, you know that IG will be quick to label something hazing when it is, in fact, corrective training. Corrective training in a combat zone is very different than in the rear or non-combat roles.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, so take off your rose colored glasses.

we haze during promotions, do we not? In the form of a punch to the chest usually correct? And we NCO's are always standing by to ensure it doesn't get out of control. usually its the lower enlisted that tend to push things out of acceptable levels. You know the saying "its all fun and games until someone gets hurt" and that why we watch to ensure the HAZING remains at an acceptable level. Now crew chiefs will play our own little games. The rules are always in place before we start.lol.The rules are there to keep things safe and provide a means of stopping should things get out of control. we are always in charge of ourselves. If you cant handle something, say so and it stops immediately. And your correct, iv'e never served, never served in combat, and was also babied and coddled during my service. You are sharp, lead the way!

reply to post by PLASIFISK


First of all they were Marines not soldiers. I am a Marine, and am a combat veteran and have witnessed what can happen when a Marine falls asleep on watch first hand. That is a big time no no in the Corps, you just don't do it. If he were my marine he would'nt be standing watch alone, and yes, if I caught one of my Marines sleeping on watch you can bet that they would face a serious rear end reaming. That doesnt mean that he committed suicide beacuase of that. He was probably already having issues and to blame Marine for his death is a disgrace. The Marine Corps is like a brotherhood and when a brother messes up he is held accountable, now I ask you, have you ever served, and served in a front line combat unit?