3 Face Hazing Charges After Marine Commits Suicide

I don't consider this "Hazing"

Hazing is going through the guantlet after getting promoted and things like that.

This was disciplinary on someone who repeatedly fell asleep while he was supposed to by the eyes and ears for his brothers while they slept.

A sniper team in Iraq had all of their throats cut as they slept because the Marine on watch, fell asleep.

Often Officers and senior NCO's leave this type of discipline to members of a problem Marine's unit. They do this not for sadistic reasons as some uniformed may think. They do it to give the Marine a chance to straighten up before getting a permanent black mark on his record that will hurt his chances for future promotion.

Sorry that Marine committed suicide, but some people who join the Marines find themselves in over their heads. That's just the way it is. I can tell you these types you don't want in your unit, but unfortunately you get stuck with them often. Their poor performance, lack of drive and odd mentalities can pose very real dangers to your unit.

I was always a top performer, but was made to sleep with my gas mask on multiple times because I was such a loud snorer. Was that hazing? No, it was a pracital solution which happened to suck for me.

That Marine repeatedly put his unit at grave risk. From the start, Marines are ingrained with the importance of watch duty. It is a core duty every Marine is expected to do and do well. That is why Marines are posted on ships and at nuclear assets and why you see them at U.S. Embassies and the Whitehouse.


Side Note:
PLASIFISK's posts above is the epitimy of why I hate the airforce and why the Corps has their own Airwing. We'll take Marines flying air support any day over some prissy airforce flyboy who thinks he's above everyone else.

I laid waste to soo many of those types at the e-club on Kadena in my day and still have an insatiable desire to do so with every sissy airman I meet.

Just so we are all clear on where I stand.

I am a Marine. I have endured hazing from the time I hit the foot prints at boot camp until I received my DD-214.

I fully support Marines policing themselves using various forms of hazing. I support the tradition of having your newly appointed rank forcefully pinned to your collar bones. I support hazing as a form of punishment to remind the Marine that this is not a game. When I joined the Marines we felt tighter, but as the years went on new recruits had less and less respect. I find a direct correlation of this problem with the forced reduction of hazing. Currently the Marine Corps has a zero tolerance policy toward hazing.

I am sorry, but if you want to be with the best you have to be able to handle hazing. If you can't handle it then maybe you are not meant to be in the Marines. Just my two cents.

reply to post by PLASIFISK


SOG...as in MACV-SOG? Because if so, holy crap dude. That must have been some serious [EXPLETIVE REDACTED].

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
I support the tradition of having your newly appointed rank forcefully pinned to your collar bones.

I have never heard of that tradition before. How do you do that? Is there a metal spike shoved into your collar bone?

reply to post by Darce


Yes, the colloar lapel insignia have 2 metal pins on them. Put them on without the clips and everyone of that rank or higher in the unit hammer fists them in.

Personally, I don't agree with it and it was stopped before I was in.

The guantlet (what I experienced) was the replacement where you walk between two rows of Marines and they hit you on the shoulder as you pass. (Dress uniform rank insignia is on the shoulder)
For newly promoted NCO's a knee was often given to the leg also because NCO's also get a "blood stripe" on there dress uniform trousers. Going through 30-40 Marines was not pleasant.

A friend of mine got discharged because he had blood clots on his legs after going through this. This hazing was stopped also. Unfortunately too late for my friend. He was a good Marine and an asset to our unit.


This is all unrelated to what was done to the Marine that repeatedly fell asleep on watch though.

That was disciplinary. We called that Field NJP (non judicial punishment).

reply to post by ShadeWolf


I read this story earlier,and I really don't think this was hazing. Thats if we're getting the whole story. I sorta took it as punishment more then anything.It does seem a little extreme,but they're depending on this man to be on watch..falling asleep multiple times is not good as it could have cost many lives.

reply to post by nightstalker78


Yes, it was Field NJP not Hazing.

Field NJP is an effort to correct the situation without putting a permanent mark on a Marines record and hurt his chances for future promotion.

It is not to fulfill sadistic urges by savages. It is Marines taking care of their own. Occasionally it does not work, most often it does.

We did this with 2 vet Marines that transferred into our platoon that were constantly bullying our greenies. We made the 2 vets wrestle every greenie in the platoon until we said stop. No punches to the face, but everything else was fair game. The vets got their asses kicked in hard and the greenies became a tight knit group that learned to rely on each other. The vets were reminded they were just 2 Marines in the unit and the greenies realized they were part of a unit that had their back (even if we did give them sh# sometimes).

That’s the way it should be done and normally was in my experience.

reply to post by AP-Chris


Thank you for that info. Pretty much goes with what I was thinking.

reply to post by AP-Chris


I guess its a good thing im not airforce! Lol i would like to speak on your behave by saying not all marines are ignorant fist to cuffs. Some of them are good people and dont pride themselves on how mqny airforce troops they have fought back in the days. Now we army aviators do compete with the marines from time to time, but it fun and games. For the most part we tend to leave the idiot devil dawgs out of our circle well because they are stupid and immature. Hahahaha you said prissy! Flamer!

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
reply to post by AP-Chris

 

I guess its a good thing im not airforce! Lol i would like to speak on your behave by saying not all marines are ignorant fist to cuffs. Some of them are good people and dont pride themselves on how mqny airforce troops they have fought back in the days. Now we army aviators do compete with the marines from time to time, but it fun and games. For the most part we tend to leave the idiot devil dawgs out of our circle well because they are stupid and immature. Hahahaha you said prissy! Flamer!

I should have known you're not Airforce, your grammar is too bad to have made it in.

Marines are stupid and immature?

At least I'm don't say LOL like a teen girl texting her BFF's

Lol. My butt just got off the line 3 months ago for the 6 time! And since you mentioned it, my comfy chiar is rather nice, ive missed it so. Going back out in about 10 months with the most awsome CAB in the army. We take of each other. Have we had soldiers fall asleep on duty, surrrrre . Do we wip their azz for doing so? No! An article 15 does just fine. Loss of pay and rank, and duty works very well! Aviators love flying! Long hours and grueling work sure. But we love it. We save the azz woopin for the bad guys not our brothers and sisters. So anyway how is your comfy chair bub?

And..

There is no line. I go where you cryin azz soldiers request air support, extraction, or just need a lift cause your to lazy to walk. Into your raggedy azz COPs we go watching you run for cover as we bring the heat from the sky, getting our airframes shot up all because you cant do your job. But hay keep training.and thank you for the job

You're no pilot, maybe some support pleeb at most. There is a line and you go back behind it after every flight you take. But, I find it doubtful that you actually ever make it into the air unless there is some paperwork to do on the plane. People like you are the reason why "heat from the sky" is dropped in the wrong places, killing friendlies. Oh, and planes get's shot at because there is a war going on and the enemy shoots back. That's easy for you to forget since you are most likely some teen sitting in their mommy's home and never been anywhere.

You "go where you cryin azz soldiers request air support, extraction, or just need a lift cause your to lazy to walk."?

If you're for real and not some 13 year old nerd using mommy and daddy's computer, then the Army has gone down hill a lot. If that is your mentality for the support role you play for the our fighters on the ground then you shouldn't even be in that job.

Sounds to me like you're just some wanna be poser. The only thing that remotely strikes me as real about you is your feelings of insecurity which manifest themselves in your resentment towards Soldiers and Marines who are actually on the ground... fighting.

Lol hey smart guy FYI the airforce aint the only armed force with aircraft. Lol idiot. Jeeez

Again, my mistake. I thought the Air Force was the only ones who looked down on the grunts as much as you.

Grunts and Tanks are the backbone of the Army. You... you're just an accessory. Like a purse or something.

reply to post by AP-Chris


Well we could go on and on a out this all evening but i have things to do besides exchange words with you. And if you question who i am or what i do well u2u me and we can arrange to speak on global or land line if you like. I serve amongst the best of army aviators. We fly into hell to take care of soldiers who request us. If flying by and hear of TIC, we render assistane. Reguardless of whats going on on the ground we go in. Only things that stops us is weather. Now i could go on and on as i have said but for you, no. I dont know you personally, but i know your type. All talk. I can prove that im the real deal anyday. How bout you. Which military service are you with. What do you do?

reply to post by PLASIFISK


I really have no interest in conversing with you anymore either and I know your type too. My type does not get along with your type. I was in the Marines.

Originally posted by AP-Chris
reply to post by PLASIFISK

 

I really have no interest in conversing with you anymore either and I know your type too. My type does not get along with your type. I was in the Marines.
[/quote
Was? Why did you get out? How long did you serve? Did you ever work with air assult? Have you seen everything we do? I have been doing this 14 years now and i will continue to do so until i retire. Now as far as your type not getting along with my type, well. The only soldiers that dont get along with me are the crooked ones. The ones that cant be at the right place at the right time in the right uniform. The soldiers that dont look out for every soldier no matter what service you are with. The soldiers that quit when things get tough or because there is a little pain. Those are the soldiers i dont get along with. I have 2 squads of soldiers whom will give their life to protect me, as i would they. We are held to an extremely high standard, as is all aviation. We work hard and play hard. We are family, and i am the big brother. We dont do the marines style of corrective actions because well we are above that. My soldiers are adults, not kids, or cavemen. I treat them as adults. Responsible, god fearing, adults. So what are you doing with your life now that you are out the marines?

Originally posted by ShadeWolf

3 Face Hazing Charges After Marine Commits Suicide

news.yahoo.com

KANEOHE BAY, Hawaii (AP) — A military court hearing for three Marines accused of hazing a fellow Marine who later committed suicide in Afghanistan focused Thursday on whether the accused intended to harm the deceased or discipline him so he would stop falling asleep while on watch duty.

The Marines are charged with "wrongfully humiliating and demeaning" 21-year-old Lance Cpl. Harry Lew, of Santa Clara, Calif., who shot himself with a machine gun April 3 in the Helmand province of Afghanistan.

Lew had been caught sleeping on duty multiple times at the remote Gowragi Patrol Base close

(visit the link for the full news article)

Simple, you fall to sleep on duty, you get people killed. That guy should have been kicked out of the marines before anyone got hurt. If I would have fallen asleep on watch in Afghanistan being "humiliated and demeaned" wouldn't have happened, I would have got a good as@ kicking and deserved it.

Originally posted by ShadeWolf
reply to post by PLASIFISK

 

Nope. Way I see it, though, if you're out there on the line and responsible for your buddies, you stay awake. It's not that hard to do.

Well maybe he should have been taken off watch duty if it was a repeated thing. Obviously his body was having some problem, maybe stress or something to cause him to fall asleep repeatedly. So what do they do? Make him physically and emotionally exhausted? Yeah.. that sure is going to help him stay awake on watch. It's their fault for not addressing a repeated problem.

Originally posted by ShadeWolf

3 Face Hazing Charges After Marine Commits Suicide

The Marines are charged with "wrongfully humiliating and demeaning" 21-year-old Lance Cpl. Harry Lew

I was in the Navy and stood a ton of perimeter watches after they phased the Marines out at the base I was at. Even stayed awake for 3 days one weekend. Never in a combat zone, tho.

"Dereliction for failing to supervise and ensure the welfare of Marines under their care."

Yes, this charge is correct.

Failing to properly teach a Marine how to stay awake on watch instead of making him hate his team and his own life. Obviously Lew's superiors didn't succeed at any of the "training" they were trying to show him. Obviously his superiors couldn't communicate effectively.

Once is a mistake, twice is a problem.

After the second time of catching him, I would have sent him to sick call - and told him not to come back until he could physically do his job. At least to have the Corpsmen find out if there was anything physically wrong. And they might have caught something mentally wrong as well.

Why would he give a damn about the lives of people who were crapping on him - they didn't give a damn about him. I'm surprised he didn't take any of them with him when he killed himself.

In fact after reading the whole article, I have to wonder just who's side they were on.

I won't pretend to understand how certain behaviors are allowed in the military...

( the story of the private who was made to bark like a dog while his commanding officers urinated on him comes to mind)..believe there was a lawsuit over that one.

I guess we've come a long way from shooting to death anyone who fell asleep on command.... but I wonder if being beaten by your fellow soldiers , and also having to participate in beating them , not to mention the psychological mind games , isn't much more psychologically damaging....with serious long term repercussions, that could affect a lot of people.

reply to post by ShadeWolf


"I think he was upset Lance Cpl. Lew was jeopardizing everyone's lives."

Sums it up for me. I woulda stomped his arse too if he jeopardized my life by falling asleep in such a hostile environment. He obviously wasn't Marine quality..

And I'm sick of this country expecting our soldiers to go off to war and then bitching when soldiers act like soldiers. The idiot fell asleep, could have gotten people killed, he got beat up by the people he endangered because he did it several times.

At least we will go down in history as the most well behaved and disciplined army in the history of the Human race.. had this happened 100 years ago no one would have given it a second thought.