FLT 93 The Second Debris Field

Originally posted by earthdude


Look, here is the wind direction for that day. You are grasping at straws.
www.wunderground.com...

edit on 12-9-2011 by earthdude because: (no reason given)

The exact wind direction that day can be taken directly off of the stain on the ground that the oil vapour from the engine core left. I used that stain to line up the paths that the wing tip vortices would have traveled in this photo (red lines). This path lines up perfectly with Indian Lake and New Baltimore.

reply to post by waypastvne

Yes you are right, I was wrong, I read the map wrong. Still, too much distance.

Originally posted by earthdude


Look, here is the wind direction for that day. You are grasping at straws.
www.wunderground.com...

edit on 12-9-2011 by earthdude because: (no reason given)

Yes, it says its blowing from the NW. Wind speed direction is always shown from the direction it is blowing from.

Wind Speed 8 mph (NW)
Max Wind Speed 15 mph
Max Gust Speed 23 mph
Visibility 10 miles

So thank you for once again, confirming what we have been stating all along. Winds were blowing from the NW towards the SE.

So, again, where are you pulling this "debris traveling 'upwind'" again?

Originally posted by earthdude
reply to post by waypastvne

 

Yes you are right, I was wrong, I read the map wrong. Still, too much distance.

Too much based on.....what? What's the baseline? Whats an acceptable distance? What makes it acceptable? Is there a range?

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by earthdude
reply to post by waypastvne

 

Yes you are right, I was wrong, I read the map wrong. Still, too much distance.

Too much based on.....what? What's the baseline? Whats an acceptable distance? What makes it acceptable? Is there a range?

I guess I could see paper going that far. Too bad there is no heavy stuff to support my argument. I still stand by it, gut feeling and perception of physics. I would be up for an experiment where papers were released in a wooded area to see how far they would blow.

reply to post by earthdude


I think the experiment would be pretty easy. Go to the top of any structure where you have a pretty good idea as to the height. For instance, generally speaking one story equals about 10' in height. Drop a piece of paper. As long as the prevailing wind is not blowing into the structure, see how far away it lands. Extrapolate. Imperfect but it would give you an idea.

Bump for maxella

Read the intro.

Originally posted by waypastvne
Bump for maxella

Read the intro.

edit on 27-6-2012 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)

I note your OP is regarding the debris cloud and it's drift. Here is a GIF I did of the available radar data for UAL93. The white dots are the Warren RO coordinates, red dots are ARSR returns and yellow are the PIT ASR. You will note that immediately after impact, a significant debris cloud is observed which does indeed drift in the direction indicated by the OP. It has to be a rather dense debris cloud to be such a strong target for the ARSR. In the case of AAL77, the debris cloud was readily visible with the DCA ASR, but not-so-much with The Plains (PLA) ARSR.




Footnote: This is not time-matched data, so there is an offset visible between the RO/ARSR plot and the PIT ASR plot.

reply to post by 911files


other possibility is that the debris was composed of metallic coated insulation was more reflective
accounting for larger radar signature.

reply to post by thedman


Or the carbon fiber fragments.

Electromagnetic waves reflect (scatter) from any large change in the dielectric constant or diamagnetic constants. This means that a solid object in air or a vacuum, or other significant change in atomic density between the object and what is surrounding it, will usually scatter radar (radio) waves. This is particularly true for electrically conductive materials, such as metal and carbon fiber, making radar well suited to the detection of aircraft and ships.

Bumping this thread because the Flt 93 debris field subject came up again recently.

Save me from typing it all over again. Read the intro.