FLT 93 The Second Debris Field

reply to post by Amaterasu
FLT 93 was carrying mail, many of the crash scene witnesses describe mail scattered everywhere.

As they say "The check was in the mail".

This is no suprise. Lightweight debris was found well over 10 miles away, after the crash of US Air Flight 427, in 1994.

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by waypastvne

Wow that's a stupid question.

There is a better question waiting for you halfway up this page.

Why do you say it's stupid? It negates your question.

The reason I said it was a stupid question is, because it is a stupid question.

Most of your questions are "Why is this piece here and why is that bit there". Well the answers to your questions involve forces and that includes aerodynamic forces. You need a better understanding of forces.

You know how those wingy things on a airplane are kind of curvy on the top and flatish on the bottom. Thats called an AIRFOIL . We are going to look at what happens when you turn an airplane upside down and the flatish side is on the top and the curvy side is on the bottom.

I am not going to answer the question for you. If you don't know the answer, go look it up. The question again:

Can you tell me what forces would be exerted on an inverted aircraft positive G's, and how these would differ from the forces on a non inverted aircraft, same angle, same speed ?

Here is a drawing of a 40 deg. inverted Boeing 757. I put some different coloured arrows on it. Can you tell me what force each of those different coloured arrows represents ?




If you don't want to answer the question, you could just say, "I don't know a damn thing about aerodynamics or forces so my opinion on airplane crashes means nothing".

Originally posted by GenRadek
If you follow its flight path, there is no debris anywhere along the path. The only place debris shows up is from the impact zone and then downwind.

Think about it for a moment.

If the plane was shot down in the sky there wouldn't be any debris blowing upwind would there?

So, the same argument can be made. The debris was blown downwind either in a debris cloud after crashing into the ground or when it was shot down.

Still not a convincing argument either way.

Edit: In other words..... please prove that debris from a plane being shot down will not behave the exact same way the debris from a mushroom cloud would act.

Originally posted by waypastvne

The reason I said it was a stupid question is, because it is a stupid question.

Most of your questions are "Why is this piece here and why is that bit there". Well the answers to your questions involve forces and that includes aerodynamic forces. You need a better understanding of forces.

The irony is the only stupid question is yours because if you knew the official story, you'd know the plane supposedly did this:

The plane “went in the ground so fast it didn’t have a chance to burn,” says Jim. Authorities were especially anxious to find Flight 93’s “black boxes” (cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder) in hopes of discovering what happened during the doomed flight.

The flight data recorder was located on September 13, some 15 feet underground. The following day, the cockpit voice recorder was unearthed at a depth of 25 feet.

See, the plane supposedly went into the ground so deep that the black boxes located in the tail section were supposedly recovered at 15 ft & 25 ft deep.

So the only aerodynamic forces that are relevant with the official story is your red arrow.

Next you can explain to me how a large explosion could have been created that doesn't contradict the official story.

Originally posted by smurfy
reply to post by GenRadek

 

I never mentioned explosions or missiles, I mentioned fire. As far as no debris along the flightpath, I take it you mean no debris was found.

I'm open to speculation, even more as we get up to date,

I did not say you did, but you mentioning a fire on board prior to the crash, I assumed that is what you meant. How else can a fire break out on board, to the point where paper and debris from inside the aircraft ends up outside the craft, without a midair explosion/impact (caused by bomb/missile/gunfire/cannon fire/etc) or such? I would only venture out and speculate it was due to the stresses placed on the aircraft with its final maneuvers, it may have started to break up prior to impact. But that is also just speculation on my part, as I do believe the aircraft was intact and fire-free until impact with the ground.

Sorry but you could have been a little more specific with what you meant regarding a fire prior to impact. Or am I reading you wrong? My apologies if I am!

Originally posted by ATH911

The irony is the only stupid question is yours because if you knew the official story, you'd know the plane supposedly did this:

The plane “went in the ground so fast it didn’t have a chance to burn,” says Jim. Authorities were especially anxious to find Flight 93’s “black boxes” (cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder) in hopes of discovering what happened during the doomed flight.

So, "Jim" wrote the official story? You are going to cherry pick that one quote? For those interested, Jim and his son of J & J Svonavec Excavating were the only excavating company to work with the F.B.I. at the site. They tell quite a story...and they too believe that flight 93 crashed there. Please read the article when you have time. I have to give ATH911 kudos for finding it. (although he debunks himself by posting it)

where they dug through soil that contained pieces of the aircraft, personal items that belonged to those on board and human remains: No whole bodies were recovered.

Using a Kobelco excavator, the process was slow and meticulous because every bucket of material that was excavated went through screens,explains Sally. Screening helped locate many body fragments and debris from the plane. .

In honor of Jim's role in finding the black boxes, a United Airlines official presented him with a hat he treasures. It says, I found the box. The excavators also found a jacket that belonged to one of the terrorists,� explains Jim. The jacket contained the hijacker's schedule for September 11. We found the knives [the terrorists] used, too.

Although only fragments of bodies were recovered, everyone was identified, including the hijackers, explains Emily Jerich. Pointing to a fenced-in field about 500 yards below the shelter, she explains that the public isn't allowed there because that is their burial area

www.americancatholic.org...

Thanks again ATH911. Good find! You now know who found the black boxes!! Will you be contacting Jim, his wife, or his son Jamie?

Originally posted by Nutter
Think about it for a moment.

If the plane was shot down in the sky there wouldn't be any debris blowing upwind would there?

So, the same argument can be made. The debris was blown downwind either in a debris cloud after crashing into the ground or when it was shot down.

Still not a convincing argument either way.

Edit: In other words..... please prove that debris from a plane being shot down will not behave the exact same way the debris from a mushroom cloud would act.

Think about it for a moment.


If a wing and an engine were found here and the rest of the airplane way over there. That would be a sign of a shoot down or inflight structural failure.

If all of the airplane was found here and some papers were found downwind. That is a sign of some papers being carried downwind by the wind.

One of the engines was downrange of the crash but it left a mark on the impact crater before it went there. This means it was still attached to the wing at the time of impact.

The span of the crater is the same as the span of a 757 . So the wings were also intact at the time of impact.

Do you have any evidence of any important parts of the aircraft being found some where they shouldn't be ?

Originally posted by ATH911


So the only aerodynamic forces that are relevant with the official story is your red arrow.

Ok let's start with the red arrow. What force does the red arrow represent ?

Originally posted by Nutter

Think about it for a moment.

If the plane was shot down in the sky there wouldn't be any debris blowing upwind would there?

So, the same argument can be made. The debris was blown downwind either in a debris cloud after crashing into the ground or when it was shot down.

Still not a convincing argument either way.

Edit: In other words..... please prove that debris from a plane being shot down will not behave the exact same way the debris from a mushroom cloud would act.

edit on 8-9-2011 by Nutter because: (no reason given)

If a plane is shot down, there has to be an initial area of debris from the missile strike or cannon fire, depending on where the impact was. The plane itself is not going to just drop out of the sky like an anvil after being hit by a missile or cannon fire. Take a look at the flight path of the plane prior to the crash.



www.911myths.com...

You would have to at least give us a general area in the flight path where the plane was "hit" prior to the impact. Even if it was hit there should have been larger pieces landing before the crash site, and lighter materials as well. But everything occurs well after the crash site. The wind was at a constant speed and in the direction SE. The debris would have still had to land before the crash site if it was released well before the crash site. This is in regards to the "lighter" materials. There should have been "heavier" materials found earlier too. But there werent. And no one mentioned a plane breaking up or showering debris prior to impact.

Originally posted by Six Sigma
So, "Jim" wrote the official story? You are going to cherry pick that one quote? For those interested, Jim and his son of J & J Svonavec Excavating were the only excavating company to work with the F.B.I. at the site.

LoL, you should re-read what you just wrote!

And why do you say I cherry pick that one quote that describes what happened to the plane after it allegedly crashed? Are you saying the 757 traveled slowly through the ground and was burning the entire way down?

They tell quite a story...and they too believe that flight 93 crashed there. Please read the article when you have time. I have to give ATH911 kudos for finding it. (although he debunks himself by posting it)

How does it debunk my questioning of how an explosion could have formed in the first place?

Thanks again ATH911. Good find! You now know who found the black boxes!! Will you be contacting Jim, his wife, or his son Jamie?

Na, don't want to be accused of "pestering" them. Feel free to contact them yourself. I'm sure their answers would be the same.

Originally posted by GenRadek
The plane itself is not going to just drop out of the sky like an anvil after being hit by a missile or cannon fire.

Nor would plane debris travelling at the same velocity as the plane.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Ok let's start with the red arrow. What force does the red arrow represent ?

I don't know. Why don't you tell me.

Click here to learn more about this warning.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Oh come on truther it's a simple question. Go look it up. The answer starts with the letter T.

I guess I'm not that edjamacated. Please explain it to me.

Can someone explain to me how a large explosion could occur, and therefore a large mushroom cloud, by a 757 that supposedly buried so fast it didn't have a chance to burn, the ground caved back in on itself covering the hole, and the part of the plane that didn't bury was its cockpit section?

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by GenRadek
The plane itself is not going to just drop out of the sky like an anvil after being hit by a missile or cannon fire.

Nor would plane debris travelling at the same velocity as the plane.

But the debris is no longer jet powered, and therefore beginning to drop down, while the aircraft is still under power and flying ahead at speed. The debris is starting to slow down after falling from the aircraft. Again, they would have found parts before the impact crater, not after it.

reply to post by ATH911


Right because fuel is just going to be snuffed out quickly and disappears before igniting. Lamest excuse ever ATH911.

Originally posted by ATH911
Can someone explain to me how a large explosion could occur, and therefore a large mushroom cloud, by a 757 that supposedly buried so fast it didn't have a chance to burn, the ground caved back in on itself covering the hole, and the part of the plane that didn't bury was its cockpit section?

Thats what we are working towards ATH, but first you need an understanding of forces and aerodynamics. I am not going to answer the question for you, go look it up. What force does that red arrow represent. It's a very very very simple question. The answer starts with the letter T . If you don't know the answer to it, you don't have an understanding of aerodynamics. If you don't have an understanding of aerodynamics, why are you giving your opinion on airplane crashes ?

While we are at it, the energy driving the force behind the red arrow can come from what two sources ?