A Dire Metaphysical Warning to all Atheists!

Originally posted by Hydroman
So what? We cease to exist, and that's that. We won't care after that.

edit on 1-9-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

There is one possibility you're not considering, based on a interpretation of quantum reality, and that is this:

Consciousness, not matter, is the source and ground of all being (not matter), and as an evolving consciousness I would purport a conscious love (back to the free choice I mentioned), which being loving and free, does not violate one's own personal integrity or unique individuality at the most fundamental level (i'm not referring here to egoic self as who we think we are or thought we were).

Perhaps worthy of consideration here too is that a monistic idealism framework (consciousness as primary and fundamental to exist5ence) is the only possible way to satisfactorily resolve all the quantum paradoxes.

Yes, it's an unknown, or an unknown unknown, but there are TWO possibilities, not just one.

Also, as an aside, some people actually do have pre-birth memories.

Originally posted by Heartisblack
You said it. Not existing would be better then you pushing the love of god down my throat, I'd rather cease to exist then listen to y'all ranting all day.
It would please me greatly not to listen to this all night.

edit on 1-9-2011 by Heartisblack because: (no reason given)

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Would also like to add:
Don't you think we get tired of folks implying that there's something wrong with us because we neither pray to nor fear an entity for which there is no evidence, and were said entity to exist, we would not care to become a part of its kingdom if it sends a soul into non-existence for not believing in its existence because we used the brain it gave us and determined an absence of evidence? I mean, what kind of a jerk does that?

It's like staging a puppetshow, and then shooting all the little schoolchildren because they clapped for the puppets and then stopped clapping when the puppetmaster walked on stage. Seriously?

You're wasting your time I fear. There is no reasoning with dogmatic belief systems, which is what atheism is. It's a belief. Most atheists that I've talked to make the assumption that because I don't agree with them, means I must believe in the religious concept of God. It's a very narrow minded way of looking at things.

Hi OP, I think you might be interested in this.

Alvin Plantinga defines "fideism" as "the exclusive or basic reliance upon faith alone, accompanied by a consequent disparagement of reason and utilized especially in the pursuit of philosophical or religious truth." The fideist therefore "urges reliance on faith rather than reason, in matters philosophical and religious," and therefore may go on to disparage the claims of reason.[4] The fideist seeks truth, above all: and affirms that reason cannot achieve certain kinds of truth, which must instead be accepted only by faith.[5] Plantinga's definition might be revised to say that what the fideist objects to is not so much "reason" per se — it seems excessive to call Blaise Pascal anti-rational — but evidentialism: the notion that no belief should be held unless it is supported by evidence.

Fideism

It's people's own choice to believe we're nothing more than the sum of our material world.

GM

Originally posted by Heartisblack
You said it. Not existing would be better then you pushing the love of god down my throat, I'd rather cease to exist then listen to y'all ranting all day.
It would please me greatly not to listen to this all night.

edit on 1-9-2011 by Heartisblack because: (no reason given)

My point precisely, except there's no sense of humor in your response here. Please forgive me if the OP had the opposite effect ie: that it gave you the impression of trying to rob you of your own freedom to choose, by forcing the "love of God" which isn't loving.

Consider it just something perhaps worthy of consideration, with an open mind free from contempt, prior to investigation, not an attack on your belief or lack-thereof.

Regards,

NAM

Originally posted by Grey Magic
It's people's own choice to believe we're nothing more than the sum of our material world.

GM

That's absolutely true, I agree wholeheartedly, but it can't hurt to present an option or an alternative POV simply for consideration.

I apologize if I appeared to get overly zealous in trying to advance the alternative viewpoint / possibility.

Ok, OP may you suggest which God we start believing in, because we all know you religious folk like to swap and change deities every few hundred years or so.

I mean, If it comes down to it - I guess Thor or maybe Odin would be a nice choice, but they were forgotten weren't they?

Maybe Allah, or Hanuman the monkey god, or Shiva, or Vishnu or Loki or Isis?

Help me out here, so many to choose from - so many different options and bonuses with each one.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.'" C.S. Lewis

There is still time...

reply to post by troubleshooter

Nice. Wow. Thanks. That sums it up pretty well. I love that guy, a prior atheist who had a conversion experience as a result of late night talks with his friend J.R.R. Tolkein.

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C.S. Lewis

Is it possible that this world is an extension of the realm or domain of limitless possibility that you spoke of
and was created by people who either didn't believe in or couldn't handle the existence of such a place
and chose to live here because it was easier for them to accept.Just wondering.

this is so weird to me! my boss who is a sikh (not that it matters, he's very intelligent) was literally just giving me the same warning.
telling me to pick a religion and stay with it, it didn't matter which one I chose he says, because all roads lead to rome, or all religions lead to god. but I told him that the universe is natural and that we are born of natural circumstance, and evolution takes place in all systems. he says that god is infinite and has created nature but it is only one insignifcant piece of the inifinite universal realm.

he said each of us is a drop of water trying to find the ocean.

now personally, I can't subscribe to any deity. he was mentioning Jesus Christ and Buddha, so I say, why can't I create my own path? he said that is our ego speaking which makes us only "GU" or dark. learning the ways of those messengers of god gives you the RU he said, or light.

most importantly, he wanted me to meditate. to cleanse my soul and ask for gods permission.

It sounds almost like a fusion of religions is happening, and even trying to justify the supernatural with science..?

...the possibility of any deity existing and the possibility of any form of life after death are not synomous...

...i've always been an atheist (over 50yrs now) but i believe in a form of life after death - as well as many other things classified by anal retentive ocd-ers some people as metaphysical / sacred / spiritual / supernatural / un-validate-able via science...

...my stance on life after death is - as long as i have living descendants, a part of me is alive... if thats all there is - okay, fine, no biggie... if theres more - okay, fine, yippy skippy doo dah... no deity required...

Originally posted by Sahabi
Outside of my personal beliefs or hopes; no one knows what awaits beyond death, except the deceased.

Regardless of what awaits us after death, most people will be wrong anyway, because our beliefs have splintered and branched so far that there is not one single majority belief of what lies beyond death. If the Christians are right, everyone else will be wrong. If the Buddhists are right, everyone else will be wrong. If Hindus are right, everyone else will be wrong. If Dynastic Egypt is right, everyone else is wrong. Etc., etc., etc.

Since most people will be wrong about what to expect after death, we all might as well face it with an open mind and no fear.... just go with the flow and see what happens.

Sorry but I do. I remember very clearly what happened both in past lives and the inbetweens. It's like remembering what I had for breakfast. *shrug* Sorry if that messes with your need to believe it is 'unknowable'.

And all the religions of the world were created to control various populations, so all of them have a bit of truth in them but it's only to fool naive people into swallowing that set of beliefs whole without too many questions.

Sorta like an unscrupulous coffee roaster. They'll use a handful of arabica beans in with a bunch of low quality robusta beans to make it taste better than the robusta by themselves, but for anyone who's ever had pure arabica beans, the difference is glaringly obvious.

So basically all religions are 'wrong' with a tiny bit of 'right' thrown in to fool the gullible. And there's nothing to fear in death, other than the getting dead can be quite unpleasent sometimes. Once you're out there though, (and you don't have a lot of spirits waiting to share the pain of what you caused them thru your bad behavior), you pretty much can relax, spend some time with old spirit buddies if you want and then hop back in for your next go-round.

Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.'" C.S. Lewis

There is still time...

Well, that's what C.S. Lewis wanted to believe, anyway.

You actually talk with your higher self some, and do a bit of life analysis to see how that life went, and what's coming up lesson wise (if you want to, of course). Some people just throw themselves back into whatever life they can get to avoid the 'sharing of the pain' by those they'd hurt, but still that is all in their path.

As they start getting more on track with the karma stuff, and begin to 'instinctively' stop doing hurtful things to others, they avoid having to endure it, and so the time between is much more pleasant.

Originally posted by Ghost375
Reading ancient texts helps, but the best way to reach god is through oneself.

....which is a form of self-delusion. And doing it this way results in there being many different ideas of who and what god is.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I personally think if there is / was such a thing, then god would probably be wetting himself with laughter at all of us running around down here having our pointless nonsensical arguments instead of just getting on and enjoying life and being good to whoever crosses our path.

I really do not think that god would be offended if he truly created people because if he is infallible, he would already know that we are having these debates, i am sure enough to know he would have more important things to be worried about.

We will find out when our eyes close, good enough for me.

I treat people how i like to be treated, and try to do the right thing wherever possible, if this is not good enough, then i do not want whatever it is as my god.

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Sorry but I do. I remember very clearly what happened both in past lives and the inbetweens. It's like remembering what I had for breakfast. *shrug* Sorry if that messes with your need to believe it is 'unknowable'.

So what happened in the in-between time?

if god understands you didnt pick a religion (agnostic) because of some problems you didnt feel were eithical or moral or just, would you still get in with the faith theres some sort of meaning to life and somthing to explore after it?

Because thats what i think and i dont need to go to a chuch to maintain it.

Am i too subject to this ultimatum?

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Also, as an aside, some people actually do have pre-birth memories.

How do you know that memory can't be transferred through dna? In other words, how do you know that these people are remembering things that happened to their ancestors since they share the same dna? Do we know everything about dna and how it works?

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Sorry but I do. I remember very clearly what happened both in past lives and the inbetweens. It's like remembering what I had for breakfast. *shrug* Sorry if that messes with your need to believe it is 'unknowable'.

So what happened in the in-between time?

Just as I told several other posters, if you take the time to read what I posted, of course. It's pleasent, free..in addition to the life analysis stuff, it's sorta like sitting in a giant hot tub, all the spirits of those you are traveling with thru time sitting around you, shooting the breeze (since if you've ever been in the spirit realm there is always a part of you there). You can hang outside of time, and stay as long as you like.

Most however are eager to get back in and see if they can't make some improvements in the next life. This life now is full of amazing opportunities to grow and learn spiritually. Better than any other time in history, actually. I've made more progress in this life, than in the last 20, from what I can see. Oh I did learn things about karma and stuff, but none of this more advanced spiritual stuff.