33 Year Air Force General had a conversation with me about Secret Space Program

Originally posted by hypattia
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

With all due respect,how do you know it's the USA? Why should I believe you? Who are you? You believe whatever you are told? Who told you?

Disclosure will be soon. Just hang in there.
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When you hear the the truth it will all make sense.
It turns out we actually know what we are doing.

Area 51 is more hype and fiction than a real super-secret government/military facility... They want the public and the enemies to believe secret stuff goes on there, when the real secret is that it is just a clever distraction... Especially for the enemies of the USA, and their most sophisticated intelligence communities.

The real secrets you are looking for are all in unknown areas in Utah, Arizona and New Mexico... the really scary secret stuff is mainly in Utah.




This message was brought by a friend of a friend who knew someone who talked to a man who claimed to have worked at A51, possibly, maybe.

reply to post by vincenz32


As usual what comes to mind with these kind of threads is that your untrustworthy, a crap friend and a tell tale no matter what you say.

Originally posted by ASC Nole
Illustronic,


are you familiar with wire wrap techonlogy at all? im curious as you seem to have a grasp on older tech.

No sir that is not my expertise, though I have wired complex car stereo systems in the early 80's.
I'm sure what WIKI says was widely used in the 60's and 70's was probably used and partially developed where I work back in the 40's since being founded as a private institute for advanced applied metallurgy. I have read some of our daily bulletins of wire alloy tech. I am not an engineer or scientist, I just provide visual interpretations of what they do when needed.

I believe your story, or your friends story rather.

My own Grandfather served in the Navy, USAF, and went on to work for private aerospace companies the rest of his working life. He worked on TS Black ops projects that he couldnt even mention to my grandmother for fear of both of them "getting into a car wreck."

I speak with him about ATS topics all the time, and even in his old age of 92, he's still sharper than most men half his age I work with.

Anyways, he always told me the space program was made public in the 60's to the early 80's because it was in the nations best interest to make the world think we were so superior. Hell, even the Soviet Union collapsed because Reagan refused to give up the "Star Wars" program that many now say was nothing more than a ruse.

Look around you. Any rational person can see that if we had the tech for space travel as early as the 1940's, one can only imagine what we have in this day and age.

No wonder they're decomissioning the shuttles and abandoning the ISS, thats like a modern teenager abandoning a IBM computer with a black and green screen.

This story pretty much reflects what I believe. Good stuff here - no "alien" bull. Any chance this guy would do an incognito Q&A?

Originally posted by Frira
Just how did we build, transport and launch a Saturn V moon rocket and no one noticed?

All the Saturn Vs are accounted for. All Lunar Modules are accounted for. Tourists have been in and around the Vertical Assembly Building at the cape every day-- pretty sure someone would have noticed a moon rocket being stacked, not to mention, launched.

What if, there is a few of these advanced crafts in space already, hidden and docked with the space station, and the Astronauts that spend months in space in our space station, do routine missions that the general public do not know about?

Just food for thought

Originally posted by kykweer
reply to post by vincenz32

 

As usual what comes to mind with these kind of threads is that your untrustworthy, a crap friend and a tell tale no matter what you say.

kykweer ,

Did you even read the original post completely??
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and I know you will probably go running to all your friends involved and tell them what I said to you, but the fact of the matter is, if you don’t use my name I wont be held accountable, and most people wont ever believe you anyway. Hehe –laughter erupts from him.”

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He said as long as you don't use his name he won't be held accountable...Easy to understand isnt it?

Insterestingly enough, I have an uncle that is a 43 year retired Major General that has spoken similarly to me and his step son after a few drinks. However he didn't state that there were hangars guarded by forces other than U.S. He did state that he's never met anyone that had access to the other side however.We got into that conversation during I think 2008 when the whole thing with the LHC and Cern was big. While discussing that with his step son, he chimed is stating that it's pretty much small talk compared to what's really going on.

reply to post by wutz4tom


Well its not about being held accountable, I just believe that the REAL shared secrets still are kept secret not shared with tens of thousands of people that read these forums like a school girl when you got something told to u with faith.

reply to post by Gwampo


A "what if" scenario by last poster.
Of course the black budget allows for clandenstine spending, and secrecy- one needs to look no further than Oxcart, which became the SR-71.
Thinking any "objects", either manned or unmanned have to be launched either from Vandenburg or FL is shortsighted. Who knows, the giant underground hangars at 51, or elsewhere could be opened in the middle of the night- launch a large rocket (which may now have the capability to diffuse/disguise propulsion) into space/orbit) without thousands of prying eyes.

@ OP,

Interesting story, thanks for the share. Like any of them with no evidence, I'm taking it with a grain of salt, no offense to you personally.

One questions I have, however......why would the US collaborate with the Ruskies....and especially, the Chinese? I mean, talk about sharing top secret tech. Washington threw a $hitfit about their stealth chopper...

And the logistics/purpose of building an obelisk on Mars' moon is beyond me. You'd think they'd want to tote that accomplishment.

Because...they aren't "The USA" but a group operating inside but apart from the government and military of the USA? That's what I got from that anyway.

I doubt very much that at the top echelons of government that Russia and the USA are actually at odds in anyway. The two sets of secret service individuals running those governments find the facade that they are to be useful.

Originally posted by Frira

Originally posted by notionfreely

Originally posted by Frira
In the first two sections-- I don't think there was a single item not matching known programs-- the kind which have press-releases. In the third section...

I'll just offer one example where credibility went out the window: Apollo 18 and beyond?

Just how did we build, transport and launch a Saturn V moon rocket and no one noticed?

All the Saturn Vs are accounted for. All Lunar Modules are accounted for. Tourists have been in and around the Vertical Assembly Building at the cape every day-- pretty sure someone would have noticed a moon rocket being stacked, not to mention, launched.

ah, my dear Fria, surely you are aware that the 'cape' is only one of many launch-sites operated by the united states government.

(and just so it's not a one line post, my favorite's always been around los alamos.)

I launched a twelve inch high Estes Rocket from the school yard when I was kid-- surely you recognize the difference in capability between the Cape and a school yard?

Where are the specialized gantries?
Where are the VAB's?
Where are the crawlers?
Where are the sailors who took part in the capsule recovery?
Where were the rocket stages constructed?
Who built the Lunar Module, Capsules, Command Modules?
Who installed and maintained the ground computers and who wrote, installed, and maintained the software?

And how did you get this from New Orleans to where the secret launch facility might have been without passing someone who would have talked?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/50d0ab96b984.jpg[/atsimg]

That is just the first stage! The second would have come from California. Do we have the technology to create invisible roads crossing the continent? Do visitors to the plants which made these monstrous machines have to look into a "falshy thing" which erases the memories?

The line crossing into unreasonable speculation has been crossed long ago in this discussion.

Lol, that old black and white picture should answer your question... The moon missions were around 1969? So even of they only had 30 years of scientists working tirelessly to develop new technologies that would give them till 1999... 12 years ago... In other words, its been over 40 years and you actually still believe they use this stone age crap??? Haha! You are simply TOO MUCH! It's too obvious that you don't even believe your own b.s.

Thank you for posting. Although we have read such accounts over the years many times, it corroborates information and is valuable for that reason alone. I don't expect you to have any writing skills either, as opposed to some I see here. Why would that matter?

As far as the Apollo 18, 19, 20 and beyond, I believe without official evidence this is true. If anyone has looked close at the videos of Retired Air Force officer William Rutledge and has any technical background in video and NASA technology, you can find no issues that can't be dismissed as unlikely. The videos have never been debunked other than by those who don't believe them and without any evidence whatsoever say they are faked. I've been in electronic graphics and video for 30+ years and know how to do effects and retouching as a professional, and have hundreds of examples and methods I use for illustration, but have found almost no issues with the videos. The only problems have been in some camera angles that "could potentially" be problematic in the "City" videos.

Below is a link to one persons take on some of the material.

Mona Lisa Alien Spaceship on the Moon

The direct link is to Rutledge is:

Original post site for Apollo 18-19-20

I believe the "handlers" have allowed this to exist in order to be discounted among the anti-conspiracy programs and being "truth-looking-fake" as an effective counter intelligence tool.

Gary McKinnon and other such accounts site similar details of our off world programs.

Murdered whistle blower Phil Schneider also is a place to start on underground bases, facilities transcontinental deep underground transportation and much more.

You can search any of these terms, names and events to find much more information, and some interesting and some flawed conclusions too of course. But the preponderance of information would suggest something actually solid and real is going on, IMHO.

Thanks for adding more information to the search for truth. We have to do this ourselves. No secret there.

ZG

Originally posted by Frira

Great, your so smart-- then answer the logistics questions I posed.

I noticed no one has. Give it try, smart guy. Impress me with your blinding brilliance.

since your response to me had relatively little to do with what I had pointed out I'll field this one. as for your question about a 'flashy thing' the loss of livelihood is a fairly decent threat.

as far as your itemized list of tech, those capabilities are housed on the bases that accommodate said launches. a few examples:

the x37 was tested from the mojave space port, later moved to vanderberg air force base with edwards as alternate.
reconnaissance satellite tac-sat3 was launched from the mid-atlantic regional spaceport in Chincoteague virginia.
JawSat was launched from vanderberg in 2001, as well as mighty sat, II, XSS-11, STP-R1, and COSMIC--all by way of rocket.

if you're asking about how things are constructed--it's piece by piece at various defense contractors across the country. some records are publicly available, and you are more than welcome to google contract awards. pretty handy system, when you need to build something, instead of having a whole team read onto the project, you only read people on to the parts you need their expertise with. there's a great story about physicist richard feynman getting frustrated with ames lab at their inability to manufacture a tube needed for the atomic bomb. after receiving the second botched product, he visits the lab and asks why they haven't been building the tube to the blueprint specs. they explain that had they done so the reactor the tube was obviously a part of would explode. needless to say he had to read them on. but recall, that particular project didn't suffer from any seriously compromising security leak. believe me, folks can keep a secret when they need too.

I could keep going, but the truth is darpa's been heavily investing in space for quite some time and the majority of the stories don't break into the public. the cape is far from being our only (hell, far from being the best) launch site, despite being the best known. christ, what do you think the space command folk in the STRATCOM office do all day?

Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
reply to post by Frira

 

You're not taking into account the secret launch base in Antarctica!

Amazing how so many people just assume that if you can't SEE it, then it doesn't exist. Blurred out areas in Google Earth?

Might also explain where the missing TRILLIONS have gone too...

Great thread OP

Several response like yours. But none will address the logistics. NOTE, I did not address budget-- you set up a straw man to shove over. Here is a match, burn it too. I'll help.

I addressed logistics, so why don't you give it a try?

Try again on Antarctica-- the rockets would not launch at such temperatures and secrecy would be non-existent as it is international.

It helps to posses a concept of how Boeing plants work, Grumman, IBM, North American, Douglas, and a cast of tens of thousands. Even the space suits are easy to account for in their creation, and tied specifically to a single astronaut. The simulators, training facilities-- all of those, would have to have been duplicated in secret.

Which one of us is making assumptions and who is speaking from experience? I have been to many of these places, and only someone who has not could believe what you believe.

The facilities to create and build a spy plane in a Skunk Works environment is impressive, but a manned moon launch is on a whole different scale-- not only in size, not only in budget, but in infrastructure and personnel. The housing, feeding and transporting of the number of persons necessary cannot be done in secret.

I worked with real people-- persons with families, friends and neighbors-- married and with children born to them, extended families-- picture what you know about your friends and extended family. Now this:

I had a friend whose history before I knew him did not add up. Too vague in details to remain that way for a relationship. I knew him for several years, my best friend. It is too complex to hide a false history. People recognize faces, and inadvertently give it away, friends notice something hidden. Try that on a scale of tens of thousands! He was in witness protection program and I guessed it long before I mentioned it. Sorry I did. Get it? He's fine, but I don't know where, and I don't the name-- and I am being careful in how I describe this.

Likewise, I was vetted by our government for civilian clearances-- because of work I once did-- where it brought me, and what I could observe. Try that on tens of thousands of average Joes like me! I knew people to talk to about it, so it was not difficult to discover-- besides, the reason was clear and made sense. And what I knew was nothing on the scale of what you suggest. That means, to keep the secret, our government would have had to do that, and more, on tens of thousands. If they tried, they would still be trying to finish the security checks.

To a large extent, because of my first profession, I knew "who was who" in the computer industry. It was not that big in those days-- everyone in the industry knew who was who. There is no way to have hidden what the hardware and software people did. No way-- not the many required. Within the community-- stories that sound "neat" now did not exist-- and they would have.

All of that is to say, you may conceive of the plot as merely hiding a launch, or hiding a half dozen enormous factories, and hiding the manufacturing, transportation and paper trails of millions of component that are huge as well as tiny. But how you do you hide the lives of the people? You can't-- people are people.

D-Day's only secrets were when and where-- but you can't hide that many people and that much equipment-- and the allies didn't try to pretend that the people and the equipment were not manufactured and transported and staged. A moon launch is on that scale.

And we have enemies with excellent spy networks. No one launches anything that big without an enemy knowing it.

Again I ask: Which one of us is making assumptions and who is speaking from experience? And you "LOL" do you? I don't expect an eighth-grader to know what he or she does not know about how the world works, and how people act and behave; and some of the contributors on this site are in 8th grade. I don't know many people who have lived the kind of life I have lived, but my experience does provide me with exceptional insight-- and I know it. I am not exceptional, but my life experiences certainly have been. But we are all naive about many things-- and the trick is to know what we do not know. I write of what I know, and your "LOL" borders on begging for pity in my eyes. I am not laughing at you, but your naivete is showing.

The Air Force source used by the OP cannot stand against such experiences as I have been blessed (and cursed) to have--and that man would have soon known it.

Originally posted by alpinestar

Originally posted by Frira
In the first two sections-- I don't think there was a single item not matching known programs-- the kind which have press-releases. In the third section...

I'll just offer one example where credibility went out the window: Apollo 18 and beyond?

Just how did we build, transport and launch a Saturn V moon rocket and no one noticed?

All the Saturn Vs are accounted for. All Lunar Modules are accounted for. Tourists have been in and around the Vertical Assembly Building at the cape every day-- pretty sure someone would have noticed a moon rocket being stacked, not to mention, launched.

Really? Your mind can't grasp the possibility that the Saturn was a cover and different, more advanced craft were actuality being used?

Certainly my mind can grasp more. The difference is that my mind is also capable of dismissing the highly improbable as well as the impossible-- and knowing the difference.

Originally posted by 2012king
As for shuttle launches, if some of these secret space programs are being run by the US Navy, who is to say they wouldnt launch from the sea?
I mean if you launched something from a known military base, chances are it would be spotted, even if it was in the middle of the desert, but if you launched from the sea, nobody would see a thing.
I have never seen a shuttle launch so dont know how long it takes to lose sight of something going that fast, but if it were night time, 50 miles out to sea you wouldnt see a thing

When I lived on the west coast of Florida,.. in St Petersburg, I could see the shuttle launches from my front yard.

From launch to " Loss of visual" was about 15-25 minutes in the morning against the rising sun....IIRC.
That's much more than 50 miles.
At sea you could probably see it for much longer.

Originally posted by ZackMorris

Originally posted by Frira

Originally posted by notionfreely

Originally posted by Frira
In the first two sections-- I don't think there was a single item not matching known programs-- the kind which have press-releases. In the third section...

I'll just offer one example where credibility went out the window: Apollo 18 and beyond?

Just how did we build, transport and launch a Saturn V moon rocket and no one noticed?

All the Saturn Vs are accounted for. All Lunar Modules are accounted for. Tourists have been in and around the Vertical Assembly Building at the cape every day-- pretty sure someone would have noticed a moon rocket being stacked, not to mention, launched.

ah, my dear Fria, surely you are aware that the 'cape' is only one of many launch-sites operated by the united states government.

(and just so it's not a one line post, my favorite's always been around los alamos.)

I launched a twelve inch high Estes Rocket from the school yard when I was kid-- surely you recognize the difference in capability between the Cape and a school yard?

Where are the specialized gantries?
Where are the VAB's?
Where are the crawlers?
Where are the sailors who took part in the capsule recovery?
Where were the rocket stages constructed?
Who built the Lunar Module, Capsules, Command Modules?
Who installed and maintained the ground computers and who wrote, installed, and maintained the software?

And how did you get this from New Orleans to where the secret launch facility might have been without passing someone who would have talked?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/50d0ab96b984.jpg[/atsimg]

That is just the first stage! The second would have come from California. Do we have the technology to create invisible roads crossing the continent? Do visitors to the plants which made these monstrous machines have to look into a "falshy thing" which erases the memories?

The line crossing into unreasonable speculation has been crossed long ago in this discussion.

Lol, that old black and white picture should answer your question... The moon missions were around 1969? So even of they only had 30 years of scientists working tirelessly to develop new technologies that would give them till 1999... 12 years ago... In other words, its been over 40 years and you actually still believe they use this stone age crap??? Haha! You are simply TOO MUCH!

It's too obvious that you don't even believe your own b.s.

I made NO assumption. The OP's source state, specifically, "Apollo 18 through 20."

Capabilities since Apollo is whole different target-- so try to deal with the facts without changing topics.