Wow... England Needs A Revolution...

reply to post by Freeborn


Sounds suspiciously like Switzerland....

A very well run country and a good example of how Direct democracy can work.

reply to post by stumason


We may come from different backgrounds and situations (both past and present) but I completely agree with your national service comment Stu, it would be one of the best levellers to have happened to British society for decades. I can't expand on the (many) reasons why, they're all too obvious. Good call sir, and my apologies for any earlier impertinence - it's too easy to get all uppity with folks on forums. While I don't agree with your analysis of me as a turncoat runaway and it ultimately makes zero difference anyway, we tend to think alike on certain things.

ETA: one thing though - would you REALLY wipe someone else's sh*t off a mouthpiece and then use it? Stern stuff indeed.

I'm concerned that ANYONE can side with "England".
How many of you actually read?
England...could best known for human right abuses?

reply to post by FrenchOsage


I'd check my own countries record on human rights before i start accusing England of human rights abuses. Yeah in the past Englands done some terrible things but not so much since the first world war. The U.S on the other hand............

As for revolution in the U.K. nice idea but seeing as the vast majority of people seem happy watching x-factor and reading The Sun it's not going to be happening for a while.

reply to post by nexusferox


I may have been a tad harsh in my assesment of you, but I tend to get quite animated when people put down our country, especially those who don't live in it

And yes, if I really had to make a phone call, I would give it a wipe!

reply to post by stumason


Indeed.
The Swiss model of federalism and direct democracy etc is certainly something we could learn a lot from.

en.wikipedia.org...

I understand your suggestion of National Service.
But I suspect our Armed Services wouldn't necessarily agree and may resent having to nursemaid and educate a bunch of spoilt and insolent little brats!
However, I'm sure there is something that could be done at a local and domestic level even though forcing anyone to do anything goes very much against the grain with me.


reply to post by FrenchOsage

I'm concerned that ANYONE can side with "England".
How many of you actually read?
England...could best known for human right abuses?

And for the umteenth time, it's the UK not only England!

Now then, could you give some examples of these 'human right abuses?'

reply to post by Freeborn


Hey - I'll add your v important policy suggestions to the list but I wanted to respond re Switzerland. I used to go to Basel fairly frequently. I like their model - a lot.

They have some bizarre 'rules' tho - like not being permitted to use your washing machine at lunchtime - so people can have their lunch in peace lol.

Sunday's are great -= they're the way the were here before Sunday opening. Everything closed down - not for religious reasons but because they figured everyone needs family time.

Also - to give people peace - no grass cutting - car washing etc on a Sunday lol.

The co-op has a sinister presence in Basel at least. That's what sells everything - food - furniture - plants - even garages. The swiss all hop over he borders for their groceries each week. I find the border check hilarious - strictly no more than 2 kilos of cheese LOL.

Every Swiss adult - up to the age of 42 - does 2 weeks national service annually. All that neutrality stuff is hocum. The Swiss will look after the Swiss at ALL costs - no bad thing. They ALL have a machine gun under their beds. Houses are all built with (I think) 2 stories up - one down - in case of bombs. Their tunnels are all dynamited to be detonated in case of an invading army etc.

Erm - one more thing. The Swiss don't do tv. If you have a tv - and a child - the rest of the street will not let their kids play with yours.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by Freeborn

 

Erm - one more thing. The Swiss don't do tv. If you have a tv - and a child - the rest of the street will not let their kids play with yours.

If this was a meme in world society (except documentaries maybe comedy) the future would be happier, healthier and more abundant with peace and joy!

If only this was world wide.

Kind Regards,

Elf

reply to post by MischeviousElf


I dream of a world without x factor, big brother and east enders...

reply to post by christina-66


Despite travelling quite extensively in Europe for some reason I've never got round to visiting Switzerland, maybe because I've heard it's quite expensive for us Brits and I can be a bit of a tight arsed skinflint at times.....but also a notoriously free spending wastrel, but that's another conversation methinks.

The Swiss are a quirky people, let's hope they never need to use the nuclearr bunkers which have been compulsory for all homes since 1963.

We can learn a lot from the Swiss model and with a few additions and a bit of tweaking here and there it could provide a blueprint for a more democratic, representative and accountable form of government for the UK.

I preferred Sundays pre all day opening and the relaxation of Sunday trade laws however, I fully understood the reason for reform.

reply to post by christina-66

Erm - one more thing. The Swiss don't do tv. If you have a tv - and a child - the rest of the street will not let their kids play with yours.

Am drooling at that thought I worked in the Swiss alps back in recession of the 90s.. fab place but didn't see a single tv the whole time I was there and it was utter bliss...

reply to post by stumason


I agree on the idea of some type of national service. It does not need to be a military style service, but maybe some ex soldiers combined with some youth workers working together on programs to give youngsters some discipline and education. Lessons in team work and citizenship. This could be done with out of bounds trips combined with help in their local communities.

The problem is, how do we fund such programs,

I preferred Sundays pre all day opening and the relaxation of Sunday trade laws however, I fully understood the reason for reform.

reply to post by Freeborn


I was talking to a friend about this the other day. Sundays, even if you were not religious used to be a day when the family could all be together without the usual distractions. Now instead of families going to church and having a day with the community, people use their sundays as another day to worship at the alter of consumerism.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
The problem is, how do we fund such programs,

Use other people's money, silly!

reply to post by Freeborn

In Switzerland, Direct Democracy has a long tradition: The origins of Direct Democracy can be traced back to the late the middle ages: archaic forms (assemblies of the electorate discussing and deciding major political issues) have been practised in part of the country since the founding of the Old Swiss Confederacy in 1291.

I didn’t realise their system was that old.

Switzerland’s Direct Democracy is explained very simply at...

direct-democracy.geschichte-schweiz.ch


For example;

Frequent referendums on minor changes to the federal or cantonal constitutions, new or changed laws, budgets etc,
- referendums on constitutional changes are mandatory
- referendums on laws are "facultative" (only if 50,000 citizens, i.e. roughly 1.2% of the electorate, demand for it)

This seems to be extremely fair and reasonable. We’d have to get used to that – fair and reasonable being almost an alien concept within our system.

They’ve managed to get their system of government outlined on one small web-page. Simple and effective. It would also seem that their system would negate the requirement for us all to become imposers of our will (no matter how good our intentions may be) on an unwilling population. The Swiss system is so inclusive that the policies would grow organically (once a basic constitution has been agreed) by consensus.

Why shouldn’t we borrow from their 700 year old system? It patently works.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by Freeborn

 

Erm - one more thing. The Swiss don't do tv. If you have a tv - and a child - the rest of the street will not let their kids play with yours.

If this was a meme in world society (except documentaries maybe comedy) the future would be happier, healthier and more abundant with peace and joy!

If only this was world wide.

Kind Regards,

Elf

Meme - "an idea, behaviour or style that spreads from person to person within a culture."

What a fantastic word. A new one on me.

I've been living without tv for about five years now. I select what I want to see (if anything) from what's available on the net. I believe, as a result, I am not quite as propagandised as I was as a television viewer.

Television - 'The sewer in the corner of your living room.' It is also the most perfect hypnotic tool in existence. It engages both hemispheres of the brain simultaneously - and the more zombified we are in front of the thing the more blasted effective the hypnotic effect is.

They say my parents generation (born at the end of WWII) is the most brainwashed in history. Even now - my folks watch copious amounts of tv - every single day. It was a novelty for their generation and that novelty just never seemed to wear off. (BTW the majority of my friends with parents the same age notice the same thing in their parents).

reply to post by christina-66


Switzerland is humanity's proverbial light in the darkness. It is the one country, AFAIK, where they've been able to devise a political and economic system that truly works, and positively benefits the population.

In other words, Switzerland literally is what America has spend most of her existence wishing she could be.

reply to post by petrus4


Benefits the population. Wouldn't that be nice to experience for a change? It's sometimes a difficult concept to get the head round - that some governments do actually care about the overall welfare of their own people. I think France may be another example.

Do our mp's care if their policies are being implemented? Not really. Do our mp's care if they're in the party of power? I think not. Why would they? They get well beyond the average wage plus, as we are now all well aware, ludicrous expenses, and the opportunity to be bribed by lobbyists on a daily basis whether they be in or out of power.

That's what our system has created imo. A bunch of small minded, self serving, money grubbing scoundrels who would chew off their own right arm rather than alter the status quo.

This is why we need a revolution of our entire system. Not on our streets - talk about playing into the hands of a wannabe oppressive regime.

Do you realise that the current civil unrest we've being experiencing at the moment was being prepared for by our government at least 7 years ago.

A nice policeman client (in his 40's), told me about three years ago that he 'had been receiving training for massive civil unrest for the past 4 years.' (Which rather disturbed him).

reply to post by christina-66


Why more countries haven't followed the Swiss model is beyond me; it is tried and tested and proven to work.

I firmly believe that any democratic process would be improved by the abolishment of the party political system and The Power of Recall for the electorate.
If these were adopted along side something based on or similar to the Swiss model then I believe we would have a political system that would give the electorate a real say in, and influence on, how their country / town etc is governed and managed.

In addition rolling elections would provide both consistency and freshness.

reply to post by Freeborn


T'is a nice thought I will grant you that.. those at the top know the system is broken hence why Clegg tried to convince people they would enact another great reform, which I suspect like the last one will only be on their terms.

As you say, a real system would bring a breath of fresh air..

and I know I have banged on this door before, but the locals here for example hate parking meters to the point they blow them up (and frequently) as they feel they are detrimental to the community.. but instead of listening to the concerns of the people or even observing the will of the people the establishment goes the other direction and tries to create bomb proof parking meters as tho it is some kind of competition *shakes head*

The breath of fresh air will be the establishment finally not just hearing but listening to and acting on the will of the people.