Did Irene Just Divide in TWO?

no thanks on that job. that's probably one bumpy ride.

Originally posted by ignant
perhaps haarp also strengthens the eye?

oh, it did happen in nature too. edna's 2 eye sections reached "over 60 miles apart"

Like I said I am still looking more into Edna right now. However, the distance I see is much greater than 60 miles. The actual eye is just South of Jacksonville (from what I am seeing) and this "second eye" (again for lack of a better term) is near the NC/SC boarder. That is over 2 states away. That clears the State of Georgia and most of South Carolina.. that is a lot of ground.

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by MRedfield

 

Guess work and a white coat.... that's a really good way to describe it

Here is the current Infrared Satellite 3 hour loop from the National Weather Service.
NOAA


After reading your post about eyewall replacement I really think you may have nailed it. I had never heard of that before and I am currently looking more into what happened with Edna before I look into it more, but eyewall replacement cycle really makes a lot sense against the images I am looking at. No idea how much longer I am going to hold out, my eye lids are already getting heavy.

What I do find odd is the clear amount of distance. The "second eye" (for lack of a better term) appears to be closer to the NC/SC boarder, but the actual eye of this hurricane is still off the coast of Florida.

Yeah, I'm no expert here and am just doing my own research, but it seems like it fits the bill for what's happening. Watch me be totally wrong, though!

I really do hope this thing falls apart and becomes a non-issue, as fun as it is to sit at home and watch Geraldo Rivera get taken out by the surge on a Friday night.

It looks like Typhoon Sinlaku split too.
There's a paper on concentric vortex splitting- abstact here: ams.confex.com...

It looks like both of them caused a whole, whole lot of flooding but less wind damage. Just at first glance.

People, if the eye has split before and there is documented evidence of it, why if this one does the same is it HAARP?

If it is caused by nature, then surely it can/will happen on it's own accord rather than being helped out by HAARP.

If anything the governments doing a decent job preparing their country for this one, they have evacuated and made sure precautions have been taken. Or maybe they made this happen just to prove they are competent now?

Pred...

Originally posted by predator0187
People, if the eye has split before and there is documented evidence of it, why if this one does the same is it HAARP?

If it is caused by nature, then surely it can/will happen on it's own accord rather than being helped out by HAARP.

i agree and was skeptical till i saw the radar vid.

large beams of energy of some sort simply dont just go flying off from puerto rico *directly* into the eye of a hurricane on their own accord.

Originally posted by predator0187
People, if the eye has split before and there is documented evidence of it, why if this one does the same is it HAARP?

If it is caused by nature, then surely it can/will happen on it's own accord rather than being helped out by HAARP.

If anything the governments doing a decent job preparing their country for this one, they have evacuated and made sure precautions have been taken. Or maybe they made this happen just to prove they are competent now?

Pred...

Well, lol, we gotta blame someone. They've got papers on the darn things splitting, they've obviously been studying it. lol We know they did that project cirrus and stormfury so we know they were trying to manipulate them as early as 47, and it's now 2011 and I don't put jack past them.

It seems to me that the argument that the two areas are so far apart would be more likely to be a split rather than eye wall replacement. I am no expert, but doesn't eye wall replacement usually happen just right at the edge of the storm? I was looking through some white papers at eye wall replacement and that's what I was seeing.

ETA I was looking at whitepapers on typhoons, which is all I could find in public domain, but aren't they just like hurricanes in reverse? Wouldn't the physics be the same?

reply to post by MRedfield


The more I read about eyewall replacement the more I think you are right on the money. Here is another interesting read on eyewall replacement and they show a great example using Hurricane Katrina which was undergoing eyewall replacement just as it made landfall. It is a very clear picture and you can clearly see the 2 eyes as there is literally no rainfall at all in the eyes. It is as clear as it can be.

LINK

reply to post by MrWendal


Ok, some people tell me there is no inflation and no recession either- but to me that picture you posted is what I saw in the papers on eyewall replacement- where there is 2 eyes within the structure of the actual storm, and that looks NOTHING like these pictures of Irene that's been posted where there's another 'eye' thingy mabob way out away from the storm.

reply to post by hadriana


Well as I said, the distance is the only thing that confuses me at the moment. . The "second eye" is very far away from the actual eye of this storm. So right now I am looking into it more. Hopefully I will have an answer for you soon enough.

reply to post by MrWendal


It seems to me that pressure readings at both locations (the eye in the storm and the one way out) would be what's needed to try to call it.

It also makes sense to me that the distance is so great because of the momentum of the (possible) spinoff.
Edna seemed to split closer inland. I bet a split over water would offer less resistance to propel the 'baby'.


www.cnn.com... looks more like eyewall replacement, with baby irene on top's own 'eye' looking less defined.

reply to post by hadriana


Judging by these images I am pretty certain we are seeing an eyewall replacement cycle. Maybe the distance is just due to the massive size of this storm?

Image 1

Image 2

Image 3

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by hadriana

 

Judging by these images I am pretty certain we are seeing an eyewall replacement cycle. Maybe the distance is just due to the massive size of this storm?

Image 1

Image 2

Image 3

Oh yeah, all that does look like it- but something happened there for a second and I'd like to see a pan out on this sort of image. I can't see what's North of that where I want to see. I have sleepy, uneducated eyes, but it looked to me like Irene popped a pup there for a second that's currently dying.

Thats a radar return from a shower band...hurricanes cant split

did any one notice that there was also a microwave anomaly being discussed on another thread around the same area as the break off?

Heres something I made with paint

The stretch is probably the elongation process that happens to cyclones outside of the tropics.

reply to post by hadriana

no offense dear but your link (even after a refresh) is 3 hrs old ... none of us are seeing current readings on this thing and as far as pressures go, only way to gain that info is from the hurricane hunters and they won't be back in the air until later this morning.

reply to post by exo87


Are hurricanes and such that different from tornado's?

I know that tornado's down here dont actually "split" BUT they do "spawn".

I've seen one go to three before. Pretty amazing stuff.

reply to post by Honor93


None taken. I thought cnn was refreshing every 10 minutes.
I don't know much about how all that radar works with the mainstream sites. When Opal hit here I thought the eye was a demon.

I just know that I found 2 examples rather quickly and a white paper showing that yes, indeed they can split. I'm ignorant but I'm not dumb.

ETA That's what I thought tho- that the only real way to tell was to look at the pressures. That's how they seem to have decided when these others 'split' - which is the word I found used instead of spawning.

Was it a HAARP 'bean' at the 29 second mark of the radar loop? We will probably never know...but we 'did' sorta learn of Projects Cirris and Stormfury eventually. I cannot fathom the political reprecussions if the populace ever learned that some areas were 'sacrificed' for storm hits to spare other more important places...like what is happening with Irene and 'Baby' Irene.

If there was some intervention (from a facility in Puerto Rico) the idea would be to steer (and I don't know what other term to use) Irene westward. Inland quicker and position its travel north WEST of the Alleghenies (to spare the I 95 corridor) but inundating rural VA, WVA, Central and Western PA, Upstate NY. Again, I go to the politics of those areas lbeing sacrificed to spare NYC, Boston, Philly.

Joe Bastardi, whose new weather group is www.weatherbell.com, had a map up yesterday comparing Irene to Hurricane Hazel in 1954 (and to another storm in the 1800s). The areas I mentioned above (west of Alleghenies) had horrific flooding that went up into Canada (Bramford and Toronto had massive flodding from Hazel as well)...but the track of Hazel put it 'over the hills' (it was 1954--naturally occurring?) Away from the I 95 path.

I just throw this out for discussion and any other theories.