Challenge to Atheists!

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by bogomil

 

I see, like Taoism?

Or perhaps Zen Bhuddism?

It sounds so grandious, if I say "yes, on the same 'research' principles", but that's basically what it was. But ofcourse the intrinsic qualities and the methods of zen and tao'ism differ quite a lot from shamanistic practises.

It would have been commendable, if theists in general had the same basic knowledge of science/logic, before creating travesties of it as 'arguments'.

reply to post by Adurna

I would not challenge atheists!

I am Christian and actually adopted an atheist attitude before
I experienced the Living God in real time. I just put on atheist
eyes to remove the false teachings in the church. I did not give
up my scriptural understanding of his Word. And I am in agreement
with most of what you have written except that God is Spirit and
theories have nothing to do with it. It is a matter of heart
and mind. Logic does tell us that there is an intelligent design.
I actually think that many atheists are closer to God than many
Christians. A lot of atheists are converted when God says hell-o
to them in person. It is an experience that really wakes you up
and that you cannot hide from. I Am that I Am, with out spoken
words. A true state of being.

Yes, today's churches are very corrupt, mainly because of the Jesuits.
If a man can not see God's handiwork in the earth and the heavens it
is very sad indeed. Man only needs to be 'still' in his consciousness
to realize His presence. If we stop listening to our own senses and the
false teachings we've been given since birth our eyes will open up.
We are consciousness. That is all. Our senses are to serve us, not to
delude us. We should always keep our consciousness/awareness above
our senses at all times.

Jesus actually taught that the Kingdom of God is 'at hand' meaning it
is available right now! Do the churches teach that today? No !

The tithing is actually the township ! Check out a dictionary. The
preachers teach you have to give 10% (the first fruits to the church).
In actuality the tithing is for the people that make up the township,
i.e. church. The tithing is to be kept in reserve for emergency as well
as to provide improvements for the township/tithing. However, the
preaches steal the tithing and live off of it. The bible says that
all ministers are to have a work and provide for themselves and not
be a burden to the people. Is it any wonder that people laugh,
ridicule, and scoff at today's supposedly Christian church.

If Christians actually practiced God's laws this country USA would
be healed almost overnight. The tithing law states that the 'first'
of income, blessings, gifts, belong to the Lord and are to be tithed
to the township. That means that the Christians would have to stop
letting the IRS take the first 10% out of their paychecks. If the
Christians actually followed this law the IRS and the FED would
disappear very fast.

It is impossible to follow God's laws in the USA unless you are
willing to go to Jail and remain in Jail. Pick three or four of
God's laws and try not to waiver in them. You will be arrested in
very short order.

Enough Said

reply to post by plateauhorizons


You wrote:

["Logic does tell us that there is an intelligent design."]

No, it doesn't. It's just one of those ideas circling around amongst christians/theists.

Quote: ["If Christians actually practiced God's laws this country USA would
be healed almost overnight. The tithing law states that the 'first'
of income, blessings, gifts, belong to the Lord and are to be tithed
to the township. That means that the Christians would have to stop
letting the IRS take the first 10% out of their paychecks. If the
Christians actually followed this law the IRS and the FED would
disappear very fast."]

Your political philosophy appears to be on par with your understanding of science/logic.

Quote: ["It is impossible to follow God's laws in the USA unless you are
willing to go to Jail and remain in Jail."]

It sounds as if you put yourself above secular law. What is it you want to do....stone somebody for unholiness?

Btw, where is the challenge to atheists in this?

reply to post by ka119


ignorance is bliss? Yes maybe for weak people that cant bear a reality different from what they expect, especially if it doesnt meet any of their expectations. I dont know many people that could accept an afterlife devoid of rules, easiness, hope, light and so on. Because thats what it is, although i cant affirm it with 100% of certainty, that would be silly to make the same mistake as the religion tards, the probability of such reality is higher than anything else, it just makes sense.

Humans like to think life on earth is hell and the afterlife is where they can fully start living in happiness, harmony and such, they think the whole world is focused on them, that they are the best example of perfection, evolution and might, hell they even think they have some guardians that protect and help them to overcome the moment of physical death (while it is only the release of dmt that create such visions like when body release endorphin when extreme pain). But this is all a lie. Brainwashing, mind conditioning, cognitive dissonance, ignorance, weakness allowed that kind of belief. In reality, what await you after life might be really "disturbing" and fearsome. Like you know, destruction of your consciousness, individuality and memories? Yeah sure maybe we go back to the "source" once we die, you know the primary energy that makes up everything even the souls. But what you dont ask yourself is, what if once you go back into that ocean of pure energy, everything disappear like it never existed? I laugh each time i hear someone saying the point of life is to connect to the source and go back to it to live a permanent "nirvana", what a pathetic view of things! What's the point of losing your individuality, consciousness, memory, experience and existence??? Never thought of that eh?

The afterlife would be more like this (and it would makes much more sense objectively): you physically die, it means you lose your flesh body, but why did you have a flesh body? because you wanted to experiment on earth or because you couldn't survive without a shell or maybe both? What if the goal of Life was just to live and learn to survive for whats next? Once you are only a consciousness without a shell, what garantee you you wont lose your sanity and disappear? Truth is, you are probably left all on your own in a new world totally inconceivable to the non initiated, where there are no "Welcome party" nor dear ones waiting for you. Only survival remains. But how can a brainwashed, ignorant, weakened and delusional soul ever survive? It cannot. It just either disappears instantly because of the shock of death, or after a while because it cannot adapt. Disappearance means instead of staying in one piece, the soul-spirit break into tiny fragments that will become neutral energy, in short you are erased. You go back to the source but you lose everything. I think this is called the "second death" and the last one.

How to survive that i do not know. But maybe learn about the afterlife, meditate, overcome your limitations, feel your spirit or higher self is a good start? The point would be to avoid any shock and surprise when you die to prevent for example, an instant erasing? It stays pure speculation even if it makes more sense...

Ignorance is bliss? Yeah maybe in the short term, but to me it is the worst curse.

Originally posted by _damon
reply to post by ka119

 

ignorance is bliss? Yes maybe for weak people that cant bear a reality different from what they expect, especially if it doesnt meet any of their expectations. I dont know many people that could accept an afterlife devoid of rules, easiness, hope, light and so on. Because thats what it is, although i cant affirm it with 100% of certainty, that would be silly to make the same mistake as the religion tards, the probability of such reality is higher than anything else, it just makes sense.

Humans like to think life on earth is hell and the afterlife is where they can fully start living in happiness, harmony and such, they think the whole world is focused on them, that they are the best example of perfection, evolution and might, hell they even think they have some guardians that protect and help them to overcome the moment of physical death (while it is only the release of dmt that create such visions like when body release endorphin when extreme pain). But this is all a lie. Brainwashing, mind conditioning, cognitive dissonance, ignorance, weakness allowed that kind of belief. In reality, what await you after life might be really "disturbing" and fearsome. Like you know, destruction of your consciousness, individuality and memories? Yeah sure maybe we go back to the "source" once we die, you know the primary energy that makes up everything even the souls. But what you dont ask yourself is, what if once you go back into that ocean of pure energy, everything disappear like it never existed? I laugh each time i hear someone saying the point of life is to connect to the source and go back to it to live a permanent "nirvana", what a pathetic view of things! What's the point of losing your individuality, consciousness, memory, experience and existence??? Never thought of that eh?

The afterlife would be more like this (and it would makes much more sense objectively): you physically die, it means you lose your flesh body, but why did you have a flesh body? because you wanted to experiment on earth or because you couldn't survive without a shell or maybe both? What if the goal of Life was just to live and learn to survive for whats next? Once you are only a consciousness without a shell, what garantee you you wont lose your sanity and disappear? Truth is, you are probably left all on your own in a new world totally inconceivable to the non initiated, where there are no "Welcome party" nor dear ones waiting for you. Only survival remains. But how can a brainwashed, ignorant, weakened and delusional soul ever survive? It cannot. It just either disappears instantly because of the shock of death, or after a while because it cannot adapt. Disappearance means instead of staying in one piece, the soul-spirit break into tiny fragments that will become neutral energy, in short you are erased. You go back to the source but you lose everything. I think this is called the "second death" and the last one.

How to survive that i do not know. But maybe learn about the afterlife, meditate, overcome your limitations, feel your spirit or higher self is a good start? The point would be to avoid any shock and surprise when you die to prevent for example, an instant erasing? It stays pure speculation even if it makes more sense...

Ignorance is bliss? Yeah maybe in the short term, but to me it is the worst curse.

Uhm. You must have misunderstood me. And completely where i was coming from..
I laughed out loud when I read that. You understand I am mocking religions with the statement "Ignorance is Bliss" correct?
And yes i meditate, have overcome my limitations, and am in a good contact with my higher self. So I'll be the first to tell you this is a good start.

reply to post by ka119


I didnt misunderstand you. My post wasnt meant to you personally. I just reacted to one sentence of your post without taking its context into consideration. I felt like writing this huge post. I know it wont reach any ears but sometimes you have to write something like this.

reply to post by _damon


I gotcha, I thought that was an attack on me. I was like "Were on the same side here".

Originally posted by plateauhorizons
I would not challenge atheists!

I am Christian and actually adopted an atheist attitude before
I experienced the Living God in real time. I just put on atheist
eyes to remove the false teachings in the church. I did not give
up my scriptural understanding of his Word. And I am in agreement
with most of what you have written except that God is Spirit and
theories have nothing to do with it. It is a matter of heart
and mind. Logic does tell us that there is an intelligent design.
I actually think that many atheists are closer to God than many
Christians. A lot of atheists are converted when God says hell-o
to them in person. It is an experience that really wakes you up
and that you cannot hide from. I Am that I Am, with out spoken
words. A true state of being.

Yes, today's churches are very corrupt, mainly because of the Jesuits.
If a man can not see God's handiwork in the earth and the heavens it
is very sad indeed. Man only needs to be 'still' in his consciousness
to realize His presence. If we stop listening to our own senses and the
false teachings we've been given since birth our eyes will open up.
We are consciousness. That is all. Our senses are to serve us, not to
delude us. We should always keep our consciousness/awareness above
our senses at all times.

Jesus actually taught that the Kingdom of God is 'at hand' meaning it
is available right now! Do the churches teach that today? No !

The tithing is actually the township ! Check out a dictionary. The
preachers teach you have to give 10% (the first fruits to the church).
In actuality the tithing is for the people that make up the township,
i.e. church. The tithing is to be kept in reserve for emergency as well
as to provide improvements for the township/tithing. However, the
preaches steal the tithing and live off of it. The bible says that
all ministers are to have a work and provide for themselves and not
be a burden to the people. Is it any wonder that people laugh,
ridicule, and scoff at today's supposedly Christian church.

If Christians actually practiced God's laws this country USA would
be healed almost overnight. The tithing law states that the 'first'
of income, blessings, gifts, belong to the Lord and are to be tithed
to the township. That means that the Christians would have to stop
letting the IRS take the first 10% out of their paychecks. If the
Christians actually followed this law the IRS and the FED would
disappear very fast.

It is impossible to follow God's laws in the USA unless you are
willing to go to Jail and remain in Jail. Pick three or four of
God's laws and try not to waiver in them. You will be arrested in
very short order.

Enough Said

Well Paul said that preachers should be paid a wage, because being a preacher is a fulltime job. I'm not saying they should make 60k+ a year for it, but a enough to have a modest living. Now these guys on tv that make millions? Uh, no. If i want to make a donation to something i'll find a non-profit organization i can trust and leave it at that.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well Paul said that preachers should be paid a wage, because being a preacher is a fulltime job. I'm not saying they should make 60k+ a year for it, but a enough to have a modest living. Now these guys on tv that make millions? Uh, no. If i want to make a donation to something i'll find a non-profit organization i can trust and leave it at that.

Now i hear they have preachers who use helicopters for transportation

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by Adurna
It is impossible to understand God. First of all we cant bring him down to our level and ask why he had motivation. He is not like us. We barely understand the human condition so how are we meant to understand Him?
Why is this a fantasy if we have proofs in the Holy Book which I wager none have you have actually read.

I have read it. I was a christian for over 20 years.

Now, if it is impossible to understand god, how can you speak on his behalf? How do you know you are communicating what he meant to be communicated? How do you know ancient people got it right, as he is impossible to fathom?

There is a difference between being a christian that just "goes to church" and does nothing to help his fellow man.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Honor93

 

We all are descendants of the crew of Noah's Ark . Jesus is the Son of God and our Lord and Savior . Jesus is the Lord God that came down and took flesh . We live in a time continuum that required the Lord to actually take on flesh in order to live among us . The Great I AM that has always been came down to be offered as the acceptable sacrifice for sin . Jesus our Lord prayed to God the Father when he was down here . He was following the will of the Father when he made intercession for us . We are not all followers of Christ our Lord . Some of us needs no intercession , needs no one to lean on , we will do it our way . If you read the Bible there is a plan laid out by God the Father and though many thought that they could see it happening in their own time they were not close . The fact that Israel has become a nation again is the missing KEY that those of past times missed .All things are in place except that the Temple has not been rebuilt . The Antichrist should bring about that event as he needs it to complete Gods plan . The Alter of God has been fabbed and ready to go . Animal sacrifice could begin soon and preceeds the Temple. Jesus ' shed blood is the only way to the Father . The way of Oprah is a dead end . Yes we are all childern of God but few are the washed in the BLOOD . Have you been born again , washed in the blood of Christ Jesus ?

so, since i disagree with your dissertation, that makes me what ?? less than worthy?
surely you jest.
not meaning to offend, but i worship no false gods including this Lord God you keep referencing. Not sure where that seems to make a difference for you but as a child of God, i need no middleman. thanks for the offer but no thanks ... Jesus has already spoken with me personally, many, many moons ago.
and, his very few words said it all for me ... his phrase was "I am but a man" ... and these few words told me all i needed to know.

on your path of discovery, i would hope you have defining moments but if not, perhaps it is time for a detour.
ummmm, Israel has been a country - if you really wanna call it that - for more than half a century, what is the delay or the hold up or Atlantis for that matter ? And, what are the dead sea scrolls just recycling material ??

also, no offense to the big man and his imaginary boat but i do believe my ancestors arrived long before he sooooo, that kinda blows your "we're all children of Noah" right out the window eh?

animal sacrifice COULD begin soon ?? are you living under a rock or just fresh outta the joint ??
who said anything about Oprah but you? i am not the Oprah fan you perceive, believe me ... a long time ago perhaps but she left the path of STO long ago. she reminds me of my grandmother who used to try to buy our love ... pathetic really.

don't get me wrong, i do not harbor ill feelings toward the woman either, but i was there for her 1st appearance in the public eye and i observed her evolution ... this is why i find her later years simply pathetic.
She has so much inner power to do so much for so very many but what has actually been produced or accomplished ???
no answer necessary, and besides derailing the thread is not my intention.

To answer your questions ... yes, yes and yes ... in multiple locations, under different theologies and certain dogma which truly prevented the natural radiation of the love within me. No baptism, no church, no preacher and no dogma can ever open the doors that i have passed through. Peace to ya, good luck in your journey and if you are really trying to convince someone, try looking in the mirror ... your presentation needs work.

Let's get to the bottom line on this subject:

Even though I am an atheist, I am willing to keep an open mind on just about anything that has merit, logic, reason and most especially evidence.

Here is the bottom line for Christians: Perhaps you are right about something....perhaps there is an "intelligence" behind the creation of the Universe, I'm willing to grant that as a possibility, but will only accept it as the evidence comes in. But, for argument's sake, let's say that it IS true. Anyone with an open mind and reasoning ability can read the Bible and easily surmise that this creative force is not, cannot, and never could be the god of the Bible, Yahweh. And by default is not, cannot, and never could be his "son" Jesus. You are a speck on a speck on a speck on a speck, rotating around a small star that is thousands of times smaller than most stars in universe and at the very remotest part of your own galaxy. The creative force didn't come from here, didn't die for your "sins" here and it is virtually impossible for a creature (the human) with such a limited brain capacity to fathom the enormity of the universe, much less it's beginnings.

So, if you want to believe in a god or a creator, fine, just toss out your Bibles, Korans and Torahs, because you won't find "him" there.

I have always wondered why religious folks say "He" and "His" when they refer to god(Also the masculine titles god is given. i.e. King, Lord, . Yet at the same time they argue that god cannot be understood or that "He" is beyond our comprehension. Maybe god is a woman, or a horse/duck/ a piece of pie.

The other title of god in christianity is "The Alpha and the Omega" the way I understand it is that 'IT' has a beginning and an end. Something with those 'properties' CAN NOT be eternal, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. Maybe god is already expired, that's why no one has seen god or heard from god in a long time...lol

We do not understand the universe, yet religious folks come by and give you what they claim to be proofs of god, then when you question them on said proofs they say "you don't understand" or some other backpeddaling gibberish.

My horde of Zombie Unicorns are awaiting my command... But they exist in another plane of existence.

Originally posted by Engafan
I have always wondered why religious folks say "He" and "His" when they refer to god(Also the masculine titles god is given. i.e. King, Lord, . Yet at the same time they argue that god cannot be understood or that "He" is beyond our comprehension. Maybe god is a woman, or a horse/duck/ a piece of pie.

The other title of god in christianity is "The Alpha and the Omega" the way I understand it is that 'IT' has a beginning and an end. Something with those 'properties' CAN NOT be eternal, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. Maybe god is already expired, that's why no one has seen god or heard from god in a long time...lol

We do not understand the universe, yet religious folks come by and give you what they claim to be proofs of god, then when you question them on said proofs they say "you don't understand" or some other backpeddaling gibberish.

My horde of Zombie Unicorns are awaiting my command... But they exist in another plane of existence.

Almost-brother. I'm a secular pastafarian. I don't have any unicorns at my disposal, but lots of congealed , complex carbohydrates.

reply to post by Ozvaldo


The King james version gives a more graphic explanation . I can't tell you to believe . God will not . You have to live or die your own way but does not mean it will be right . For the most part people that will not believe have a reason . #1 They cant party, drug and whore around if they are convicted by God that they are wrong . #2 These people find it to hard to resist worldly ways . #3 They fall prey to Satans gifts of Fame .

reply to post by Honor93


You may be a totally good guy and never do anything sinful ,but you are totally lost . If you have not taken Jesus as your Savior and been born again you are no different than the worst of people . There is only one way to God and it is through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ . There is no other way . That doesn't make me the owner of it . I have no other right to the Grace and Mercy of our Lord Jesus than the worst of sinners . I am on my own journey with Jesus , and you are on your own journey also . He that does not cling to Jesus clings to Satan simply by rejection . But you aren't stupid , you have heard about him and have made you choice and you will have to live and die with it when that time comes , and it comes to us all .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Ozvaldo

 

The King james version gives a more graphic explanation . I can't tell you to believe . God will not . You have to live or die your own way but does not mean it will be right . For the most part people that will not believe have a reason . #1 They cant party, drug and whore around if they are convicted by God that they are wrong . #2 These people find it to hard to resist worldly ways . #3 They fall prey to Satans gifts of Fame .

Aaaah, a social psychology mastermind, arranging nice fabricated categories, which lead directly and exclusively to the expected and predetermined answers. Ofcourse no-one is smart enough to notice this, at least not me, so I will eagerly support the claims in this post.

#1 It really is commonly known and practically proved by polls made in some bible-belt area, that the overwhelming majority of non-believers are nihilistic hedonists. In secular societies there's a half-hourly rape in each streetcorner; ....... that is performed by those who aren't too drunk or stoned to perform.

The police either help to hold the victims down, or later arrest them for showing too little enthusiasm about being raped.

#2 Non-believers have terrible mundane ways, the worst being that they are non-believers. The second-worst that they believe in the mundane as mainly reality.

#3 This is a more tricky one, as non-believers don't believe in satan either, so it has to be done through invisible brainwashing, which no-one yet has observed. Whereas brainwashing in commercials, politics and certain kinds of religion HAS been observed.

But being helpful I'm for once willing to support a circular argument: Those seeking fame must be under satanic influence, and those under satanic influence seek fame. Not a masterpiece of logic I admit, but who cares.

reply to post by SimonPeter


You wrote:

["He that does not cling to Jesus clings to Satan simply by rejection ."]

There are actually several options for such black/white faith scenarios. Another one goes like this:

He who doesn't lean on the flying spaghetti monster (whether on a binge or not), will be in the clutches of..... the destroyer of spaghetti strainers (and you don't want to meet HIM).

That was a last warning. Soon it will be to late.