"GOP: No tax hikes -- except for the poor"

Originally posted by neo96
i see a bunch of souless people who keeps draining the water supply til nothing remians

I agree our natural resources are being drained and our environment is being destroyed by corporatism.

Originally posted by neo96
what american has become is a bunch of people pushing a souless government for a souless greed of people who are either too stupid or too lazy to make it on their own.

I agree that our government is exploited to benefit the greedy.

However, "the rich" benefit most and depend on "the government" most; by far.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

what i propose it a returnn for self reliance and how has all that worked out for everyone but made them more poor and more dependent upon government.

No one is dependent upon government (as you know it). I give the orientation for those applying for welfare and I can tell you first hand the government isn't taking care of ANYONE. It may allow you to survive, but just barely.

When all the land and natural resources were gobbled up, self reliance went right out the window. It's really a thing of the past. Though there are those who will proclaim it, all the while receiving public education, police protection, garbage service, electric service and logistics.

Self reliance doesn't mean what it once did.

reply to post by neo96



That is a very very scary thought. I’m not sure if there is anything that can be done to reverse that kind of thinking. I was a teacher for 5 years, and part of the reason I left was because of that exact indoctrination that you speak of.

I think you and I are both in agreement with Ronald Reagan when he said:

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

reply to post by kellynap43


yep and i leave this thread with another reagan quote

" Its not that my liberal friends are ignorant its the simple fact they know so much that isnt true"

this country needs another reagan.

"this country needs another reagan."


Interestingly I've just finished reading the book by David Stockman, who was at the heart of the Reagan Revolution, and you can really see the roots of the current eras global financial crisis in what they did.

Reagans original plan was to cut taxes, and slash government spending.

But what really happened was taxes were cut, but they failed to slash government spending, in fact they massively increased government spending. And thus, America was set down the road of trillions of dollars of deficit.

So you can directly trace the current financial crisis, to Reagan Economics.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
Um... this is Social Security payroll tax, which is not the same as income tax. Further, how do those who support the further extending of this payroll tax cut propose that Social Security stays afloat if the amount going into the coffers continues being roughly 17% lower than it was back when Social Security was already bleeding its funding dry?

Further, if we have 46% of wage earners not paying any payroll tax right now under this Obama initiative... I guess that means myself and the other 54% of wage earners are supposed to just keep paying for them? BULLPIES! Not freaking having it anymore. Either pay the fare like the rest of us continue to do, or get off the bus and walk for awhile. Thank you Jon Huntsman et al. for actually giving a flip about folks like me who are by no means "rich" but who make too much money to be considered lower middle class. Seems like my group is the one that consistantly falls through the cracks, even though we're the ones who have been holding this damn economy together, despite the efforts from the left to rip it apart through assbrained spending sprees and the efforts from the right to rip it apart through assbrained program cuts to important issues like our infrastructure.

Aww come on now, don't go ruining the illusion of this class warfare thread (but it is a inforeal thread, so that is expected)

Get rid of the corporate tax loopholes, get rid of the greedy politicians and get rid of the SOBs who expect government to give them everything on the backs of people who actually work.

I can directly trace my potential income having been hugely impacted by RR. I was making almost 25/hr in 78 by 83 I was lucky to find a 10/hr job in American Oil. went from easily supporting my family on my income to struggling with two incomes. Gotts ta luv me sum ronny raygun fo sho my wiggas! Funny how memory and old financial records are so at odds with ¨history¨ LMAO 2X
seed

Originally posted by BIGPoJo

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
reply to post by neo96

 

When we decided to live in complex cities with garbage removal, school systems, police departments, paved roads, skyscrapers, technology such as internet, etc.

.....

You left out the part where we decided that half of the country should work while the other half leeches.

The main problem today is that an average joe will lose around 1/3rd of their paycheck to the government. So for a 1/3rd of your work life, time, is spent working for the government to subsidize bad behavior.

A third of a check for the middle class and the rich are two different things. After that third is taken out the middle class joe might not be able to pay all his bills while the rich guy is eating caviar. The poor guy gets a check in the mail that came from both the middle and rich joes. Why are we attacking rich joe instead of making lazy joe get an effing job?

Here is how we fix the economy. STOP TAXING INCOME. Now people will actually have money to pay their bills. Middle class will actually start spending money again which will increase sales tax revenue. Increasing revenue by taxing more income is just stupid. The only reason we have to do it today is so that lazy joe gets free internet and cell phones with their free meals and house.

The problem is your understanding of where the tax money goes and welfare are f##### up. The amount of your tax money that goes toward welfare is minimum. The majority of your tax money goes toward this huge military and special interest projects. So of the $100 in tax you pay the government, what, $5 goes toward welfare? Why focus so much on the $5?

Those who look past the bushes are attacking rich Joe because we see the actual charade. Let me attempt to describe it so you understand:

There's three siblings in a house. Like it or not they all have to live there, they all receive money from mommy since she's rich. She gives one kid $1000 per week, she gives the other $100 per week and the third she gives $10 per week.

She charges $60 rent for them combined. That would equal $20 per, if all things were equal but they aren't. The kid receiving $1K could (and should) pay the entire $60. But as our wealthy elite are doing, he wants his other two siblings to pay their $20.

The one who gets $100 per can make his $20, but is actually angry that the other (who only gets $10) can't. Instead of being a MAN/WOMAN who stands for the right, and confronting the sibling who has $1000, he is upset with sibling who only has $10!!! Like a COWARD, instead of confronting sibling with $1000, he rather beat on and belittle little brother and call him broke and worthless.

To top it off, because little sibling doesn't have a full $20 to pay his portion, mommy comes back and gives him $11 more dollars so he can pay his portion and still have a mighty, big, ONE DOLLAR to splurge on! Sibling with $1000 and $100 dollars are of jealous of little $10 sibling.

Though what's really happening is $100 sibling (middle america) is paying the $20 for little sibling and hating him for it. Even though he still has $60 and more than him.

There you are! You and others are mad at little sibling, instead of MANNING up and informing big $1000 he can easily pay the $60 and still have 9x much as you.

reply to post by Painterz


Wrong answer. It wasn't Reagan Economics that set the stage. It was the inability to stop the spending.


And to those who think the "Bush tax cuts" only benefit the wealthy, I'm going to guess they don't understand that part of those "cuts" was the increase the child tax credit to 1000 bucks from 500. In other words, if the cuts expire, you will see your taxes go up 500 dollars for each child under 17 years of age. How many "working families" will that affect?

reply to post by DZAG Wright


You assume we don't realize that the government overspends with special interests and military spending....we want that cut and the welfare cut.

Cut spending across the board - let people take care of themselves.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

What if that group does not believe in money, or they collectivize it.

There very much so are ways around it. And I don't really see how spiritualism has anything to do with it. After all, if anything spiritual could be actually observed, you could alter it. And if you could alter it, destroy it. That makes the spirit as useless and pointless as a grain of grass, bound to dust from whence it came.

Are the ones holding all the money (wealthy elites) willing to "collectivize" it or not believe in it? I think not so we are stuck with "no way around it". There is no way around it, even though they are frantically looking for a way like perhaps a "culling".

There is finite resources and money on this planet. The wealthy elite have what was it......95% of it. That leaves 98% of the population scrambling for the remaining 5%.

So there's your problem: Mommy sent all three of us siblings to the store to by goodies and gave the $20 to big brother (wealthy elite). Big brother gets his and then looks at us like, "where's yours". Or better yet he throws a quarter on the ground and middle brother beats up little brother for it. The walks around kissing big brothers arse hoping he will throw (trickle) another quarter on the ground for him.

So who is classified as being rich? Is it 250k? 60k?

When I see these threads I just see the masses of good for nothings reaching out to take my money. (and yes, seen my fair share of people who don't deserve a dime of government money)

Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
reply to post by neo96

 

When we decided to live in complex cities with garbage removal, school systems, police departments, paved roads, skyscrapers, technology such as internet, etc.

What you propose is possible if we all still lived in a log cabin we built ourselves and raised/grew our own food. Somewhere along the line we decided to progress and evolve.

Why are you attempting to return to a much simpler time (life in the womb) when you should focus on developing as a actual organism. Can't go back in once you get out...

The only way forward really is to become a partial constitutional communist society. All the government has to do is nationalize ALL corporations. Only allow private businesses with unlimited liability(but low taxes). Since the corporations lied, and are cheating Americans out of billions of tax payer monies they no longer deserve to exist.

I am going to call all the "free capital" and other "libertarians" here liars/useful idiots. Corporations once upon a time where given limited liability in exchange for WAY HIGHER TAXES! While private businesses paid lower taxes but had unlimited liability.

That said I still think this civilization should be destroyed; because let's face it, most are nothing more then mindless non-sentient animals(the majority of the population). I call many animals because they are bound by petty chauvinism like an animal is bound to instinct. And as animals they are simply consuming too much resources. Of course things would be different if they were sentient biological organisms but sadly that is not the case.

And what is worse, the vast majority have no intention of ever evolving beyond being simple animals. Things like conscience, morality and fairness are utterly over-ridden by basic biological/animalistic instincts. Everytime a human animal takes pride in the fact that they are nothing more(nor will ever be) anything other than an animal I cry a little inside. So much wasted potential.

Ding, Ding! We have a winner!

People on this site often wish for a "collapse"...why do you think? BECAUSE WE NEED THE RESET button pressed! Everything has been gobbled up and the ticks are dug in. The Monopoly board properties are all purchased so no matter which you land on you owe...jail is a reprieve.

With a collapse what do you think will happen....we will be forcibly TAKING the resources and money from those that have HOGGED it for centuries.

We need a government by the people to take most of the large corporations and dissolve them. First we need to get the hired puppets out of government however.

Originally posted by wardk28
You got half of Americans not paying taxes. With the way you are thinking, the half not paying is either poor or seniors. I can't see how that is factually true. The Bush Tax cuts actually brought in more revenue, not less, because smaller businesses were able to hire more people. To say that the GOP wants to raise taxes because they want to have those not paying any income tax to pay, thats a bit of stretch.

edit on 22-8-2011 by wardk28 because: (no reason given)

the bush tax cuts also cut taxes for the wealthy, not just businesses. Whatever was brought in by hiring more mini-wagers was dwarfed by what was lost by giving billionaires a free ride. Now we want to tax the poor? You people are absurd.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
So who is classified as being rich? Is it 250k? 60k?

When I see these threads I just see the masses of good for nothings reaching out to take my money. (and yes, seen my fair share of people who don't deserve a dime of government money)

and what about the larger chunk of money given to record-profit-making billionaire oil companies from your money. Not a whimper about that tho eh?

It is class warfare people, not Republicans against the rest of us, or Democrats against the rest of us.
It is the ruling class of R's and D's, knee deep in their own #, hiding our resources that they transfer into their names, behind gated subdivisions and offshore accounts.
Seriously, some of you need to get a grip, at least before you lose everything.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Or, you know, a nice leader could rise up and just make a person's worth the state currency. It's a fairly simple in between way. A person who has more skills and more abilities gets to have more. A person with fewer abilities gets less. A person who cannot physically enhance their abilities is helped. It's a simple Manager-Procumer-Dependent class system. A council of citizens from each class sets the average worth of a person every couple of years, and that allows a person to be worth his skills. This council sets the amount of food and water they can have, minimums to each, perhaps if needed maximums for each class, though I don't think there should be maximums. The council ideally would have M3-P5-D3 ratio. That way only sociable rich people get the right to petition to have more, because the community knows they will share it, while the dependent class still get a large voice if they need it.

That way, a rich person never gets to where he is because he cheated it, nor inherited it. he gets it because he earned it by being the most skilled person. A poor person never has any reason to be a poor person by his own sloth or inability, and a procumer just works his skill, and has a happy life.

It works pretty well you see. It's social, because it is in theory socialism. It's capitol, because it's obviously based off competition. it's national, because men work for the common good to raise their social rank, and it's just overall pleasant.


Other than that, I don't see your claim of 2% of the wealth (not resources as you said) being owned by 98% as true. that works out to around $900 per person if evenly cut. So clearly it being not even, makes that impossible. Personally I don't care about such graphs. If a person got it illegal shoot him. If he got it legally, it's his.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by kellynap43

 

because they indoctrinate in schools film and tv that the government is here to save them.

they arent rocket scientists and apparently they cant add either.

everyone with half a brain knows you cant spend more than you make that is unless government is their savoir.

"I am a Liberal, and I am a devout Liberal. I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Government. I believe that that government gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life. But most importantly, I believe in the example that Government set by stealing from the evil rich and feeding the hungry and healing the sick and always prioritizing the least of these over the powerful. I didn't 'fall out in church of government' as they say, but there was a very strong awakening in me of the importance of these issues in my life. I didn't want to walk alone on this journey. Accepting Government in my life has been a powerful guide for my conduct and my values and my ideals." Liberal prayer 2011

the above is what you and i are fighting agianst.

edit on 23-8-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Let me help you out with this because this logic is oft used by those who share your viewpoint.

I'm sorry to inform you, but the America you know and wish to return too, has been dead for a LONNGGG TIME! In fact there is just BARELY any countries left on this planet. We have reached a level in globalization where those who have the money...no longer need allegiance to ANY country. They can blur the imaginary territory lines. Meaning a wealthy elite can live ANYWHERE on this planet (and i'm not sure but quite possibly they may have achieved off planet residency) and live the same life of luxury.

All of us common folk are left fighting for a ship that has already sunk....just we didn't know it. The wealthy elite are on the way to physical immortality and colonizing other planets while you're still fighting for America LOL! That's comparable to a gang banger fighting for 33rd and 118th in Compton, while his brother snickers at him because his brother has homes in Europe, Asia, and Australia.

All of that stuff about money and deficits and downgrades is all useless and merely something for the gangbanger in compton to occupy himself with.

I'm sorry, but the republican base has to be so moronic and simple minded on an epic scale to not see and be absolutely disgusted by the hypocrisy of the right. Rich people need their tax breaks/government assistance... but the wage earners who are faced with record unemployment need to pay more taxes.

I'm sorry for this judgement but if you are republican you are either without conscience or without brain.

reply to post by inforeal


Any and all tax hikes hit the poor and middle class, fool. You will never make the "rich" pay their "fair share" because they are the ones writing the legislation, Einstein.