We (Muslims) are going to stone obelisks this Friday.

Lets be clear here.As a Muslim person who has lived in the Middle East pretty much all her life I can safely say that I've never heard of such a day.

Ofcourse since you sounded so sure of yourself I went ahead and googled and it and turns out its a day people in Iran have invented.

Now I have all the respect to everybodys opinions and what not but shouldn't you be a bit more specific and say that this is a Shiia day, instead of making it sound like it belongs to ALL Muslims?

I mean, since the majority of the Muslim world is actually Sunni and don't really know what this day is?

Just saying.

Originally posted by hmdphantom

Originally posted by pplrnuts
Theres tons of 'gods', so how is YOUR 'god' the one and only?

May be there are different understandings of god but the there is only one truth. It is how it is.

edit on 21/8/11 by hmdphantom because: (no reason given)

lol...oh my. Not arrogant or egocentric at all are we!

The truth speaks for itself hmdphantom. All I know for 100% certain is that YOU are *not* God. Period.
Not being God, you therefore have exactly ZERO authority to force anyone else to believe anything you say.
People can CHOOSE to believe in a thing, but a great number of people making the choice to believe a thing does not make that thing true or mean the thing being believed is a 'truth' - it just makes it popular and apeasing to the herd instinct buried in the lizard brains of some semiconscious human beings.


R

Throwing rocks at a man-made stone obelisk will do absolutely nothing except make Satan laugh at you. To think that throwing rocks at something will scare Satan away is foolish. If you worship the true God, you do not need rocks or other physical inanimate objects to defend yourself against Satan.

John 4:24(KJV)
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Psalm 91:10-12(KJV)
10There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

James 4:7-10(KJV)
7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Originally posted by jeramie
Throwing rocks at a man-made stone obelisk will do absolutely nothing except make Satan laugh at you. To think that throwing rocks at something will scare Satan away is foolish. If you worship the true God, you do not need rocks or other physical inanimate objects to defend yourself against Satan.

John 4:24(KJV)
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Psalm 91:10-12(KJV)
10There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

James 4:7-10(KJV)
7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Muslims don't think they're scaring away the devil with this behaviour. If they do, they're pretty much clueless imo.

This tradition is simply done in remembrance of Prophet Abraham, who was said to have come across the devil in the specific spots where the obelisks are placed, and had cast rocks at him and hurled the devil into the ground. The Hajj, as most people know, is an inward journey, where stone casting ceremony is done as a remembrance to purify ones soul, not so much as beating up the devil Infact, all of the parts of the Hajj are such. For example, most Christians, who look from outside would think that going around the Ka'ba is worshipping it. However it is nothing but a gesture. God does not live there, it is simply a point, and direction, to unify and solidify the faithful etc.

The haddiths also mention the Islamic messiah. Have you every tried listing what is said about him and comparing it to what is said about the biblical anti-christ?

sorry, but do they have a rule how close you have to be to throw the stones? for safety reasons.

and where do they get them?

does someone sell them? byo? looks like there would be a shortage to me and a lot of knots on the back of some heads.

i understand what the ritual means but just started thinking of the logistics.

Originally posted by fooks
sorry, but do they have a rule how close you have to be to throw the stones? for safety reasons.

and where do they get them?

does someone sell them? byo? looks like there would be a shortage to me and a lot of knots on the back of some heads.

i understand what the ritual means but just started thinking of the logistics.

edit on 21-8-2011 by fooks because: (no reason given)

Eh, the logistics has been an issue ever since the number of people who go to Hajj has increased over the years. The rocks aren't a problem since this is the desert we're talking about and they are abundant, but lots of people have died trying to perform this ritual, by getting trampled over and such. The Saudi government has done whatever it takes to minimize it but sometimes accidents happen so most people advise not to go there during the hottest ours of the day, or especially if you're old. Some people tho have went ahead regardless and thought if they die there they're martyrs. Dumb stuff ofcourse but not much you can do about it.

Edit: If you look at the pictures of this you'd see that they've build bridges and walk ways over and around the obelisks so as to allow for movement, but like I said it gets pretty crowded and you were right to think about the logistics, its a lot of work for the Saudi gov.

reply to post by nusnus


yes i have seen the infrastructure they have built and improved.

very impressive and needed for that amount of people.

but it all can't be free.

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by nusnus

 

yes i have seen the infrastructure they have built and improved.

very impressive and needed for that amount of people.

but it all can't be free.

the entrance into these areas are all free, use of areas are all free, but the people who come here spend a lot of money trying to find the best hotels to sleep in and consume a lot of food so the gov makes money in tons from elsewhere. Also, giving free services to the hajis is a matter of name for the gov. The better they do, the more prestige they get.

What most people don't know about Saudi Arabia is that privatization is extremely rampant. You think the government is responsible for the cleanup? they're not. They have privatized it so only large companies perform the logistics of all of this and the gov just keeps watch. Win-win scenario.

reply to post by Rosha


Yes people do have a choice in choosing ones god or belief system unless of course your brought up as a muslim!

reply to post by lestweforget


The only real choice to ever be made is if someone is going to think for themselves or not.
There may be wisdom guidance in 'the book' whatever your book is, but I doubt seriously that it is any more divine than the life of the being who's body made the pages.

reply to post by hadriana

I was responding to a specific poster who made a broad statement that people have a choice in whatever god they would like to choose, unfortunately this is not the case if one is born into a muslim family.

Fortunately in more civilized nations one has the freedom to choose whatever god without fear of being killed by your family.

Originally posted by fooks
sorry, but do they have a rule how close you have to be to throw the stones? for safety reasons.

and where do they get them?



I'll have two flat stones a pointy one and a bag of gravel
and no there are no women here.

Originally posted by lestweforget
reply to post by Rosha

 

Yes people do have a choice in choosing ones god or belief system unless of course your brought up as a muslim!

I for one am tired of this excuse. If you are a human being, it doesnt matter where were born, who to, why or what tribe or religous doctrine you were exposed to. YOU HAVE CHOICE.
Choice is inherrent to the human condition and is best expressed through the human conscience.
No ammount of 'conditioning' can erase it, it and the right and obligations to exercise it can only be ignored, devalued, feared or hidden.

Human beings are inherrently capable of choice and of being morally accountable for their actions. Yes, circumstances can alter culpability-- people in certain kinds of institutions and situations are more likely to commit morally reprehensible actions, but to deny their ability of choice and their role as moral subjects and not just objects is to deny their humanity.

Individual moral agency is at the core of humanity, and to their right to an equal standing before their community. That is not a right that can or should be sacrificed at the altar of institutional responsibility.

Just because you would deny it exists, would hope it did not, would abdicate your obligation to choose to others or are fearful of the consequences of choosing incorrectly, does not diminish the presence, value or power of Human Choice.



R

Originally posted by lestweforget
reply to post by hadriana

 

I was responding to a specific poster who made a broad statement that people have a choice in whatever god they would like to choose, unfortunately this is not the case if one is born into a muslim family.

Fortunately in more civilized nations one has the freedom to choose whatever god without fear of being killed by your family.

yeah, i was catholic, really didn't have a choice for a while. i am a christian for now. this is more to my liking.

haven't been to confession for almost 50yrs, lol!!! god will get me!

my jewish friend, was at his bar mitzfah, converted when diagnosed with leukemia.

we had many long distance talks about it, (christianity)

broke my heart, my age and 2 young kids. early 30's. died about 6 months later from a brain tumor. pissed me off that he died from something the docs didn't catch!

i was not mad at god, he will do what he wants and i have no say what he does with others.

no one killed anyone. no one threatened anyone, everyone cared about HIM!

whatever gives you the peace to pass on or live your life!

what is the problem with these people!?

Originally posted by hmdphantom


Let me tell you one thing. The the one and only phrase which is being used in your Media is the adjective for god . If you believe that for example we have the one and only Michael Jackson then the judgment day you will be one of his followers in the judgment day and you will be judged as he will be judged.

You really believe that? That if some one is a fan of Michael Jackson, they will be judged the same way he did????

That makes even less sense than the usual Religious crap..... It would make more sense to be responsible for your own sins....

But... God doesn't exist. At least no god that any religion talks about..... None of those are the true god....

Everyone is worshiping these ideas of a supreme being that was written down by MEN.... Ordinary men....

But, you are free to believe what you want and I think that is great.

reply to post by Rosha


Islam preaches death to apostates.

He means they don't have a choice in that sense. You will be killed in most cases if you stop being a muslim.