We (Muslims) are going to stone obelisks this Friday.

Originally posted by Fromabove
In a world without Islam:

1. There would be no terror
2. There would be no airport security checks
3. There would be no Homeland Security
4. There would be no Sept. 11th
5. Bin laden would be selling tractors to Jews
6. There would be no war in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya
7. Israel would not have to use the Sampson option on Iran

The world would simply be a better place to live. But that's just a pipe dream now. The days of peace are gone and tribulations own the planet until the end is fulfilled.

If there is one good thing about Islam, it is that it shows what people should not do to other people.

Your logic appalls me. You could just as easily replace the word 'Islam' in your post with the words ' US Govermnent'. How myopic can people be?

Take a look at the mass murder and pillage being done by your own country across half the world. How can you justify that? It's even your own government which is terrorising it's own people.

Wow. Propaganda really works on some people.

reply to post by Elieser


Thank you for your reply. It was really helpful for me. You brought more shine into my heart.

OP, did you know that there is an Obelisk in the Vatican? Did you know that they stand around it and hold services by its "feet"?

Why do they do that ? Are they that fond of obelisks ?

I would appreciate more information or more references to study.

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by Fromabove
In a world without Islam:

1. There would be no terror
2. There would be no airport security checks
3. There would be no Homeland Security
4. There would be no Sept. 11th
5. Bin laden would be selling tractors to Jews
6. There would be no war in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya
7. Israel would not have to use the Sampson option on Iran

The world would simply be a better place to live. But that's just a pipe dream now. The days of peace are gone and tribulations own the planet until the end is fulfilled.

If there is one good thing about Islam, it is that it shows what people should not do to other people.

Your logic appalls me. You could just as easily replace the word 'Islam' in your post with the words ' US Govermnent'. How myopic can people be?

Take a look at the mass murder and pillage being done by your own country across half the world. How can you justify that? It's even your own government which is terrorising it's own people.

Wow. Propaganda really works on some people.

Are you not going to at least defend Islam ? After all it is the reason there is no peace in the world today, not America. America has to keep putting out all the fires being started by Islam.

reply to post by hmdphantom


i think it is nice that you share with others about a ritual that people of a faith participate in. it is by sharing that we learn.

but your OP confused me greatly. i had to read several pages of input from other people to have a clue of what is you were trying to share with everyone.

i'm not a stupid person but i actually thought you were trying to warn others that upcoming random rock-throwing would be taking place.

please take more time in the future on what you are trying to say and share so people can understand. i hope you and yours have a good and safe day. enjoy.

reply to post by Fromabove

4. There would be no Sept. 11th

I didn't think that it could be possible ,here, on ATS , there are people who don't know that 9.11 was an inside job. Have it occurred to you to play with your dollar bills and see how could it be seen ?

Haven't you heard any thing about NWO

September 11, 2001 -- Eleven years to the day after President Bush [Senior] delivers his speech to Congress entitled Toward a New World Order, and 1 year and 1 day after the official birth of the New World Order, "terrorists" attack and destroy the World Trade Center and severely damage the Pentagon.

I am so sorry.

reply to post by hmdphantom


I don't know why they "worship" the Obelisk if the Bible tells them not to and why they put the trees under it when the Bible tells them not to.
To me, if the book you follow tells you not to do something and that if you do it you are worshiping Satan and you do it, then it becomes clear that you are not worshiping God but you are worshiping Satan. You can find the photos of the Obelisk and the Obelisk with the trees while they do rituals that are never done in the regular churches, online. All the information is in Mathew including where it says to destroy these Obelisks.

Edit: They do the Sun Wheel ritual which is a worshiping ritual that is done for the Sun God or Baal. If that doesn't ring an alarm I don't know what will.

reply to post by Elieser


I can not refuse to thank you for your post while they are so useful for me.

I think our world is so complicated that it should not be. have a great time.

I feel so hungry now. I think I will eat any book I would see.

as a muslim (possibly the most hated one on ATS btw) the only thing i can do is...

facepalm

quds day, is a shi'a holiday that is not widely accepted unless, well, you're shi'a.

i'm not a fan of muslims who say what "we muslims" (speaking of all of us) do when it's not in qur'an. it should become quite obvious then that it's from your specific sects customs.

oh well. good try at a thread, maybe now you've learned to bring your defense jersey when you play islam-ball here on ats.

reply to post by Fromabove

Are you not going to at least defend Islam ? After all it is the reason there is no peace in the world today, not America. America has to keep putting out all the fires being started by Islam.

More like America starts fires based on lies (Remember the iraq WMD, yellowcake uranium, al-qaeda mountain bunkers, chemical weapons etc.)
If you are going to invoke 9/11 as a reason for this war... then know that the taliban offered to hand over Osama if the US could prove he was responsible. The US had no proof (Osama was not even charged with 9/11 on the FBIs own website)... and bombed Afghanistan anyway.

Originally posted by primoaurelius
so many things in this thread, posts, and most opinions that are nonsensical.
SO egotistical to believe the creator of the universe is keeping tabs on who was at the stoning party.

It is a part of a ritual. You are just focusing on one part of this ritual called HAJ. It helps people to remember their great enemy (Satan). When some body come back home from HAJ , he tries to think more about what he has done. Then he remembers that he has thrown stone on Symbol of Satan so he tries to avoid what Satan offer him in his daily life.

i am a very spiritual person

Good. Are you logical too?

I ask you some questions :

Do you see how big is this universe ?
Do you see that there is order in every single part of this planet ?
Is this order accidental or there is some one who has done that ?
- If it is accidental , is there something important to live for ( living is not easy ) ?
- If it is not accidental , will the creator live these creatures to live for their own ?
- If he is leaving these people alone
The creator is generous . This is in contrast with letting us live
in this really big universe with great opportunities he has given us
(i.e Trees grow for themselves and we are using those fruits , woods and leaves)
- If he is not leaving these people alone
he will some people to guide people in this universe.

Relying on every day science and developing day by day would not guaranty my Next World Salvation.

Thank you for your reply.

reply to post by hmdphantom


No, the "third chapter" basically says Jesus lied or His disciples did about the fact that He said He was going to be killed and God decieved the world so it only appeared He died but He'll come back one day, and, working with a descendant of Muhammed, convert the world to Islam. The main claim is that God wouldn't allow a prophet of His to suffer so, but in fact many prophets died horrible deaths.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by torqpoc

 

All religion is a joke, it's all about making people like you, hate people like us. It is the single most widely practiced form of mind control there is. I do wish people would educate themselves rather than blindly follow the teachings of men, not Gods.

Thank you very much for your post. I don't hate any body , I just hate ( don't like ) their actions. When I see a man kills another human being I don't feel right. I hate his action , not him.

May be you are very generalizing mind control. Choosing a religion is choosing a way of control. The way you should control your ego , so you can control your daily action.

Have you ever done something and then you felt bad about that ? That is your mind that is taunting your ego ( or some thing like that)

We chose a religion to control our ego and having less regrets to live with.

So you are free to call it MK super ultra . But it doesn't change these facts.

edit on 22/8/11 by hmdphantom because: (no reason given)

Dear hmdphantom,
Actually what you are referring to is called a conscience. It has nothing to do with the ego, or id. You sorely need to educate yourself on the differences. Sadly, your choice of following a religion, especially being Muslim is not one of free will. Your parents were indoctrinated, their parents before them, your entire society is indoctrinated.

You are not following a set of self created rules of behaviour, you're following the interpretation of a set of rules written out by men, pretending to speak on behalf of Muhammad, pretending to speak on behalf of God. Are you seeing the link there? A lot of pretense.

The set of rules you follow are those that forbid women the right to vote, free speech, the right to walk around as nature intended, that force you to pray four times (or however many it is a) a day, that force you to fast.. etc.. ad infinitum. It's a set of mind, social and personal rules and restrictions on your life. And even more sadly, Muslims and Christians relish being controlled and ruled by these religions because they have zero capacity to govern themselves, to control themselves. They need and require being told what is right and what is wrong, even if what they are told is right is blatantly and morally not right.

I pity all religious people because they are an example of a powerless ego. It is not something to be proud of, it's something to be ashamed of.

Now go read some more and gain some real wisdom, not that which is spewed forth from the Qu'ran. That isn't wisdom, it's bullsh*t.

T

reply to post by torqpoc

Now go read some more and gain some real wisdom, not that which is spewed forth from the Qu'ran.

And what book would you suggest to "gain some real wisdom"?
Please tell.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Dear sk0rpi0n,

Interesting. You're on ATS asking someone what they should read to educate themselves? The premise is that you're already educated, or wishing to educate yourself in the hopes of denying ignorance.

Here's some things to start with:
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk...

Oh and you might want to youtube "Spirit Science" and watch the video series, which is interesting albeit not quite as factual as some other things you could be reading.

T

Reply to post by hmdphantom

And here I thought muslims just stoned women and whatnot. Learn something new everyday.

I am so glad I am not a slave to some ignorant religious belief. Its just me and the invisible elf that lives in my backyard. And until he starts telling me to kill non invisible elf believers or convert other folks into believing the world will be at peace....


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by torqpoc

You're on ATS asking someone what they should read to educate themselves?

No, I asked you what you would suggest to "gain some real wisdom"...(in reference to a previous post, where you dismissed one source or kind of wisdom as "bull#")
I was only curious to see where you get your "wisdom" from.

And going by the links that you posted.... well....

With regards to wisdom... to each their own I guess.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Dear sk0rpi0n,

In light of your latest post, I can only summise you're either close minded, or selective in what you define wisdom to be. Wisdom, per definition states:
Wisdom is a deep understanding and realizing of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to choose or act or inspire to consistently produce the optimum results with a minimum of time, energy or thought. It is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results. Wisdom is also the comprehension of what is true or right coupled with optimum judgment as to action. Synonyms include: sagacity, discernment, or insight. Wisdom often requires control of one's emotional reactions (the "passions") so that one's principles, reason and knowledge prevail to determine one's actions.

Religion, or religious belief does not fall into the above definition. Your signature would insinuate you're religious, , or have religious beliefs, hence i'm fighting a losing battle.

The sumerian texts, in light of a religious discussion based on a mere 2000 years of human history is an extremely wise start to educating oneself. The terra papers that tie in with a large proportion of the sumerian texts would also show that there is wisdom in the simple corrolation of the two. A mere few hours of research on the internet would then also improve one's knowledge that the Bible is a rehash, in large part of previous civilisations, babylonian, akadian and ultimately sumerian. Again just a smidge of reason and knowledge gathering would go to show the Qu'ran is as much as "rip off" as the Bible is.

As for where I get my wisdom from, hour upon hour of research. Spending time in libraries, reading alternative concepts about man's history, which in turn point to them being a lot more viable than the religious version. You'd be amased what's out there if you spend a little time reading.

T

reply to post by torqpoc

In light of your latest post, I can only summise you're either close minded, or selective in what you define wisdom to be. Wisdom, per definition states:

You dont even know me in person... and yet you suspect me of being close minded or selective in what I define wisdom to be? Now, thats not something I expect to hear from someone who writes a whole para defining wisdom.
Simply put, wisdom to me is knowledge which I can apply in my day to day life... in my understanding of with people, events.... and the world around me.

Religion, or religious belief does not fall into the above definition. Your signature would insinuate you're religious, , or have religious beliefs, hence i'm fighting a losing battle.

Highly debatable...

However, I'll boldly say that wisdom can be harnessed from religious knowledge. Such knowledge has added more to me and my outlook on things than any other knowledge. Of course, its a personal thing... much like how a non-religious person would say a certain book catering to his worldview has influenced his/her thinking, and in the process, added to his wisdom..

Except, I wouldn't go up such a person and call the source of what he holds as wisdom to be bull#, as you have done here.

The sumerian texts, in light of a religious discussion based on a mere 2000 years of human history is an extremely wise start to educating oneself. The terra papers that tie in with a large proportion of the sumerian texts would also show that there is wisdom in the simple corrolation of the two. A mere few hours of research on the internet would then also improve one's knowledge that the Bible is a rehash, in large part of previous civilisations, babylonian, akadian and ultimately sumerian. Again just a smidge of reason and knowledge gathering would go to show the Qu'ran is as much as "rip off" as the Bible is.

The Bible is a compilation of several books written over a period of thousands of years.
Even if I were to agree that it was a rehash of a previous cultures writings.... where did that previous culture get that inspiration from?
Will you say that it was an imaginary story cooked up out of sheer boredom? Or were these tales of unearthly beings and fantastic adventures in the records of these ancient cultures based in something real...witnessed first hand by those who recorded them?

Either way, I am ready to absorb any form of knowledge, because I know its up to me to accept it as truth or not. However, I will never stoop so low as to label something I dont believe in as being bull#.

As for where I get my wisdom from, hour upon hour of research. Spending time in libaries, reading alternative concepts about man's history, which in turn point to them being a lot more viable than the religious version.
You'd be amased what's out there if you spend a little time reading.

Im too am all for spending time in libraries and bookstores, constantly adding to what I know.
And just what makes you think I dont read? How do you even know what subjects that I am interested in?
I must say I am amased at how you continually make assumptions/

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Fromabove

 

Are you not going to at least defend Islam ? After all it is the reason there is no peace in the world today, not America. America has to keep putting out all the fires being started by Islam.

More like America starts fires based on lies (Remember the iraq WMD, yellowcake uranium, al-qaeda mountain bunkers, chemical weapons etc.)
If you are going to invoke 9/11 as a reason for this war... then know that the taliban offered to hand over Osama if the US could prove he was responsible. The US had no proof (Osama was not even charged with 9/11 on the FBIs own website)... and bombed Afghanistan anyway.

Bin Laden claimed responsibility for 9/11. But even so, I don't like unjust war so I don't support the wars the US is in right now. A just war is when I am attacked and I have the right to defend myself and in necessary take away your power to repeat the offense. And that being said, any war the Islams make is unjust, based on the Quran, for domination of the entire world for the moon god.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Dear sk0rpi0n,

Firstly, you asked for information, I provided it. You've been given links, you've got the information at hand and furthermore the entire ATS database. The paragraph about the definition of wisdom was copied from the net, I wouldn't go so far out of my way to write all of that for your sake.

Make your own assumptions, come to your own conclusions. I simply and politely answered your question. As to calling modern religion bull. I'm not the only one voicing that concept here, yet you seem to have picked on my posts, so be it.

Read the entire Sumerian texts, then read all of the derived literature based on those. 5000 years before "Jesus" supposedly existed and again, "supposedly" performed the acts he performed, there were people writing about beings, alien beings descended from the skies. Yet modern man has eclipsed this knowledge and prefers to follow the hashed up rendition of it. You ask me where the Sumerians got their information, well since there is currently nothing that predates it, i'm at a loss as to where it came from, but the simple fact it's there proves undeniably that the concept of "one God" "one religion" is a totally falacy. The pantheon of 12 was already in place in the Sumerian times, Gods (plural) changed names throughout different civilisations, again enforcing that the true history of man was "changed" for the purposes of those at hand.

My assumptions are mine to make, you obviously are reading a little too much in my closing paragraph if you believe I am assuming you don't read. For the record, I don't give a monkey's what you study or read. The simple fact you're debating religion with me tells me everything I need to know.

Anything else you'd like to discuss? I'm here for intellectual debate, not educating plebeians.

T