An in-depth (re)view of the Cash/ Landrum case

reply to post by CardDown
Thanks for linking the show. I've got a folder full of the SDI shows and had forgotten they covered the case.

For anyone interested, Errol Bruce Knapp hosted this UFO podcast for some years that included big-name guests and commentators like Jerry Clark, Stuart Hall, Kevin Randle, Dr Dave Clark and plenty more. Within many of the shows are clips from the UFO archives supplied by Wendy Connors. Listening to the shows is like a college course in ufology. All the good, bad and the ugly is discussed.

Strange Days Indeed was the name and the remaining episodes are available to download at Bruce-Knapp's website.

He also runs the UFO Updates List where researchers shed light on the subject of ufology and argue a lot discuss topics.

Does anyone else think that it is more than just a coincidence that the Cash-Landrum incident occurred the night after US Air Force personnel reporting sighting UFO activity over Bentwaters Airbase in what has come to be known as the Rendlesham Forest incident?

When two of the most sensational incidents in UFOlogy occur so close together it must be worth considering if there is a connection, no?

Perhaps the top brass got spooked reading reports of UFOs scouting their base in England and ordered the testing of a prototype craft in response?

Wow, page 8 my people! Keep it up !!

reply to post by CardDown


Thanks a lot for the link, I wil check it out asap!!!

reply to post by sonicology


Hi Sonicology,

that is a really interesting idea you produced right there (exotic craft for response actions in Redlesham forest)!

I always wondered if the cases have to be looked at in seperate ways but strangely 2 of the most compelling UFO cases happened around the same days, pure coincidence? I don't know.

Maybe the cases are really connected in any way.

What if the Rendlesham forest incident was pure distraction and the Cash/ Landrum craft was the real deal?

Not to say that what happened in the forest was not E.T. You have got to understand that the level of secrecy and compartmentalization that is in play with a info. discrepency between regular or even Special...as in Nuclear Capable USAF forces and the Agency and subsequent Military branch of it that is in control of decisions when and where to test in real life action....SUPER SECRET SUPER ADVANCED TECH. U.S. Military Weaponry and craft.

At this test level...that being away and outside of U.S. Continental Desert Facilities....Reg. USAF would NOT BE INFORMED.....although a CONTROL OFFICER would be present and close to the action under another title or purpose to avoid disaster.

Think about it....what better way to test and see if a Highly Advanced system works...than to test it on your own defenses or that of an Ally? Split Infinity

I'm hoping someone can provide more information about this 8 minute video clip from Planete Choc.
Is it an original French program, and when was it filmed/broadcast? (There are clips before and after Betty's death.)
Is there an English version available? Do you know of a better copy?
French Video: CASH-LANDRUM case on Planete Choc

reply to post by CardDown


Thank you for the link! I understood just a little bit but not everything. Maybe we should forward the video link for the interesting end part to a French member.

There is a thread on here with a lot of members who declared themselves ready to comply with translating but I can't find the thread right now

SMiles Lewis has posted a History Channel video clip about Cash-Landrum at his Texas L.O.W.F.I. BLOG.

After the usual HC BS (crap narrator, standard cliches and dramatic music), Colby Landrum revisits the experience and describes his memories of the incident.

'Hot metal...like it was on fire.'

The officer (Walker) who also saw it, adds his recollections...



Walker's account continues in this part and another witness, Jerry McDonald...



Cue more bad music and the guys go taking a core sample from the road where it allegedly happened...this is to find out if the road was really resurfaced. The results aren't convincing. County records show that the road hasn't been resurfaced since 1980 (the show was recorded 29 years later in 2009) although the road samples show resurfacing took place several times.

It's inevitable that a road requires resurfacing more frequently than '29 year' periods so I'm not sure the conflicting information adds to the account. It only suggests that the road was resurfaced more than once and doesn't implicate dates or who resurfaced it. Perhaps if they had cored samples from a mile away and then compared county records, we'd be better placed to weigh the evidence?

Lieutenant Colonel Sarran, charged with investigating the incident, looks Colby Landrum and the crew dead in the eye and states that '23 helicopters' would need to be reported to the local Air Traffic Control and that there is no way so many helicopters could be present. He's absolutely clear about it.

Unfortunately for him, a FOIA request shows that he hand-wrote a letter, at the time, that states 'a hundred helicopters landed at Robert-Grey Airfield, at nearby Fort Hood' on the night in question.

He responds with 'I have no idea why I might have wrote that down... and explains that so many helis at a run down base wouldn't happen.

I have to say, despite how it looks, I pretty much agree with him. 100 helis landing in one night is unlikely; the document doesn't say '100 *landings* of helicopters; it says 100 helicopters landing. It's unlikely and yet there it is...



In the next part, Sarran looks genuinely baffled, but maybe that's just my interpretation? Willie Culberson is there again and the Lt. Col can't/won't/doesn't explain anything and states the Army had nothing to do with anything.

My personal guess is that it was out of control nuclear thermal rocket prototype. Here's old soviet short movie about nuclear rocket engine, which soviets developed from1950s to 1980s. you could fill tank with anything as it will get so hot tha combustion is ende result...pretty cool, huh?
It isn't hard to imagine that US didn't have similiar projects ongoing. Considering that they had tried nuclear airplane perhaps they could try something similiar to helicopter but with rocket propulsion. That isn't so far fetched as one might think... I mean I would have definietly tried developing some crazy-ass nuclear engines powered vehicle....[editby

Here's link to picture of the actual engine part. www.cosmoworld.ru...

I'm always glad to see this thread is filled with new activities

I think we are now in a stage where we can definitely rule out any "E.T." explaination for this event. It seems more than clear now it really was a governmental/ military project.

The only way to (probably) find out more would be to contact one of the known pilots as suggested some pages ago...

Originally posted by Dalbeck
reply to post by CardDown

 

Thank you for the link! I understood just a little bit but not everything. Maybe we should forward the video link for the interesting end part to a French member.

There is a thread on here with a lot of members who declared themselves ready to comply with translating but I can't find the thread right now

Here you go Dalbeck:

The UFO-Alien Applied Linguistics Registry

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Aw thanks a lot Isaac I will try my best to contact a French speaking member!!

Originally posted by Dalbeck
I'm always glad to see this thread is filled with new activities

I think we are now in a stage where we can definitely rule out any "E.T." explaination for this event. It seems more than clear now it really was a governmental/ military project.

The only way to (probably) find out more would be to contact one of the known pilots as suggested some pages ago...

How can you "definitely rule out any "E.T." explanation for this? I see nothing to suggest this is a "secret military test vehicle" that was either A) deliberately tested over populated civilian areas or B) the test pilot went AWOL and lead the military on some cross country chase.

I find the suggestion that this was an "atomic powered rocket engine" to be at best, amusing - because it just doesn't seem to fit any conventional "rocket" design. Have you even solicited the opinion of any real developers who were part of the development of atomic rocket engines?
(Eg: I'd be interested in the opinion of Stanton Friedman)

That said, I can't think of any particular theory that would explain this strange event. I suspect that some of the details of the incident have been mis-recalled or mis-reported.

Until there are witnesses from the military who were in those helicopters going on record to testify on the nature of this incident (what was the strange "vehicle"), I think the case will remain "unsolved".

I should add that the info Kandinsky supplied does appear to suggest that the military is/was involved in this and is covering it up.

The key unexplained is the vehicle itself, and it just doesn't seem to match up with a "rocket engine powered craft".

Originally posted by Kandinsky
...
It's inevitable that a road requires resurfacing more frequently than '29 year' periods so I'm not sure the conflicting information adds to the account. It only suggests that the road was resurfaced more than once and doesn't implicate dates or who resurfaced it. Perhaps if they had cored samples from a mile away and then compared county records, we'd be better placed to weigh the evidence?

Lieutenant Colonel Sarran, charged with investigating the incident, looks Colby Landrum and the crew dead in the eye and states that '23 helicopters' would need to be reported to the local Air Traffic Control and that there is no way so many helicopters could be present. He's absolutely clear about it.

Unfortunately for him, a FOIA request shows that he hand-wrote a letter, at the time, that states 'a hundred helicopters landed at Robert-Grey Airfield, at nearby Fort Hood' on the night in question.

He responds with 'I have no idea why I might have wrote that down... and explains that so many helis at a run down base wouldn't happen.

I have to say, despite how it looks, I pretty much agree with him. 100 helis landing in one night is unlikely; the document doesn't say '100 *landings* of helicopters; it says 100 helicopters landing. It's unlikely and yet there it is...

Actually, all it says is "100 helicopters - Robert Grey airfield, came in, for effect". What does that mean?

My reading of the note, is that it is like he has complied short details from a conversation about the case - maybe they are notes used in some meeting where the case was discussed. It really could simply be just some detail from someone talking about the incident.

The dates mentioned in the note don't seem to be dates relating to the incident, but to dates relating to military meetings about the incident.

Note two lines above the "100 helicopters" it says "boy - Chinook - C47", obvious reference to Colby Landrum.

I think the Lt. Col. Sarran maybe doesn't know as much as seems alleged here. Maybe the coverup is that the US Army really can't account for the incident? I certainly do get the feeling that Sarran is not telling all he knows about this though. He obviously is involved in some sort of military investigation of the incident and is not telling them all he knows.

Originally posted by bluestreak53
How can you "definitely rule out any "E.T." explanation for this? I see nothing to suggest this is a "secret military test vehicle" that was either A) deliberately tested over populated civilian areas or B) the test pilot went AWOL and lead the military on some cross country chase.

If you look up into Google Maps youz will find out that the area (Piney Woods) in fact was/ probably still is a remote location so it wasn't tested over a "populated civilian area". If the "vehicle" ever had a pilot I think the pilot didn't go AWOL, the craft "just" malfunctioned. The 80's were a good playground for the US military to test any nuclear powered devices... I am fully convinced the craft had to be of earthly origin, just take a look at the flames shooting out.

Sorry, but I for one can't imagine with the best will in the world any E.T. craft having problems with a stove like engine .

I find the suggestion that this was an "atomic powered rocket engine" to be at best, amusing - because it just doesn't seem to fit any conventional "rocket" design.

Many of the traces we (and of course other researchers before us) could trace back lead into one direction: a non-official and still classified continuation of the NERVA project, officially abandoned years before the 80's. The NERVA explanation just fits best the described traits of the "craft" and as you may know there's even a a theory about the the simplest explanation being the best explanation, in this case a military (earthly) project gone wrong.

Have you even solicited the opinion of any real developers who were part of the development of atomic rocket engines? (Eg: I'd be interested in the opinion of Stanton Friedman)

I'm sorry, I don't know any nuclear rocket scientists personally but I also would love to know about Mr. Friedman's opinion

I suspect that some of the details of the incident have been mis-recalled or mis-reported.

Surely!

Until there are witnesses from the military who were in those helicopters going on record to testify on the nature of this incident (what was the strange "vehicle"), I think the case will remain "unsolved".

I think so, too! That's why we have to think about a way to contact one of the known pilots of one of the Chinooks but I doubt he will speak on the subject.

I should add that the info Kandinsky supplied does appear to suggest that the military is/was involved in this and is covering it up.

Yes. They are covering up their own mess so to speak

The key unexplained is the vehicle itself, and it just doesn't seem to match up with a "rocket engine powered craft".

As you for yourself suggested...do we really know anything about the craft? The craft itself surely was not just a rocket.

I'm hoping someone can help me track down a 1982 documentary that discusses the Cash-Landrum case. Its called The UFO Experience. Here's a description of it from MUFON Journal October 1982:

T.V. Review
"The UFO Experience" is an excellent hour-long documentary created by San Francisco TV station KPIX and shown on that station in September.
It presents an overview of the UFO situation, and includes on camera Hynek, Klass, Lawson, Haines, and Schuessler. It selected four "typical" cases — the Shannon Davis case (a local «pilot sighting), the Del Duca "abduction," Cash/Landrum, and the New Zealand lights. Peter Coyote, who played the part of a UFO investigator in the movie "E.T.," served as host. Ron Lakis, the producer, avoided the sensationalism sometimes seen in UFO programs, and insisted on keeping the show serious and credible, for the average viewer as well as for those more knowledgeable about the subject. For example, he included Lawson's work on a psychological basis for "abduction" stories -without mentioning his birth trauma hypothesis, feeling that BT might not seem credible to the average viewer in the brief time devoted to Lawson on the program.
—Robert Wanderer

Besides the Cash-Landrum coverage, this film is interesting for another reason, the involvement of Bill Moore and its connection to the Paul Bennnewitz affair:

"In the late spring of 1982, [William] Moore was hired by KPIX-TV, in San Francisco, as a consultant for a UFO special. In June, Moore brought Jaime Shandera (a television producer) and Stanton Friedman (nuclear physicist and UFO lecturer) into his research efforts. Moore supplied KPIX-TV with a copy of the Project Aquarius Document."
from Watch The Skies! by Curtis Peebles

I searched for this program, but the above was about all I could find on it. This seems like a significant piece of UFO history that should be made available, but it is not the only "lost" video about the Cash-Landrum case:
"Good Morning America" (ABC TV) featured Colby and Vicke Landrum along with John Schuessler in 1981.
“That's Incredible!'" ABC-TV/Alan Landsburg Productions, (filmed July, 11, 1981) broadcast November, 16, 1981. Featured a lengthy segment on the case. Vickie Landrum is hypnotized, and it also featured Colby Landrum, Betty Cash, Dr. Leo Sprinkle and John Schuessler.

I'd love to get copies of all these programs. If you have information on how to find these shows, please post details.

I'm sometimes beset by insomnia and this is one of those nights where I stumbled across this thread.

This has long been a subject of fascination to me - not only did it happen at an interesting time in terms of the proximity to the Bentwaters/Rendlesham forest incident but we were moving from the Carter administration to the first term of Ronald Reagan's presidency just 21 days after the sighting. That timing might be more important than we think since people who might have been "in the know" were in the private sector just weeks later.

Also, the timing and location seems particularly apt - December 29 was a weeknight, a Monday at that. So testing something new and odd on a weeknight when people are home earlier I could see.

If it was being tested off of an aircraft carrier well that's a weird one. How do you launch something like that off a carrier? No catshot there I bet.

There might be some personnel on said carrier that said "yeah, my CO said we shouldn't ever talk about this weird thing we tested" but maybe in two more decades we might start hearing people talk a bit.

Interestingly, I've read John Schuessler's book.

I suggest a read - there are a lot of little details are overlooked by some and it is a reasonably quick read. The foreward suggested it was an alien craft but other sections seem to indicate it was "one of ours".

Despite some of the rancor around dpd11's postings I think he raises some good points.
What voltage is running on those power lines?
7200 volts?
It would be interesting to know.
How high exactly are they off the ground?
Come to think of it, is there a U.S. standard for powerline height above the ground?
A Texas standard?

If a chopper's cargo was lower than normal on a line below the bird and the powerlines were higher than normal, well, that could be messy.

OK road paved but one of the things raised was trees burned by the fire from the object;
were any trees killed by this or clippings obtained from the irradiated foilage?

Heck, if the powerlines themselves were scorched wouldn't they need replacing or maintenance also?

Are there any other things like street signs, streetlights, or other items adjacent to the throughfare that might need investigation or inspection?

I do believe that something we produced, something rather dirty and brute force was being tested but it likely wasn't supposed to stray into a populated area. The previous post that suggested this thing was flown via video monitor from inside some kind of shielded area in the craft seems possible but wouldn't they also be able to fly via instruments ala a helicopter or airplane?

I remember that "Falcon" a supposed U.S. (disinfo?) agent appeared on that TV special "UFO Coverup Live" with host Mike Farrell in the 1980s responding to Cash and Landrum claiming it was an "alien craft" piloted by military aircraft pilots and that it had started to fail to respond to certain controls and they thought it was going to crash and had radioed this in. Standard procedure was to send search and rescue helicopters (also to cordon off the area if a nuclear powered test craft crashed). "Falcon" also made some real crazy claims about aliens liking strawberry ice cream too so take it with a grain of salt.

Well, this does seem to confirm the malfunction aspect.

Back when I was researching this more completely I had found some website (wish I could find it, it might be on the old internet wayback machine - this is 1993-1995 timeframe) that had a full bird colonel being quoted off the record that they ditched this thing in the Gulf of Mexico after the encounter and some others had been similarly ditched as whatever technology we were employing was not only dirty and dangerous but not reliable either and no news on the fate of the pilots involved.

Awfully talkative Colonel if you ask me. It might have been quoted from the long defunct "Gung Ho" magazine.

So yeah. Whatever this thing is it may have been a 2 seater prototype nuclear powered personnel carrier for special missions. It also might have been something more conventional. Whatever it was: dangerous and unreliable.

I also thought this link was interesting:
www.artgomperz.com...

And sad to say, this sighting happened at a time when camera phones were nonexistent. Even the more common handheld VHS handycams were a rarity then. And it seemed that Vickie and Betty were basically older women in search of a good bingo game and they just happened to have a little kid with them who happened to experience one of the most extraordinary things that could happen to you and they were just ill prepared for that. Old fashioned southern gals.

If only Sheldon from Big Bang Theory could have been there with a radiation suit, 1080P HD cam, and geiger counter could have been there. We might have gotten a lot more information.

But I don't see this ever being released to the public until 30 years after Colby passes away if ever. The U.S. isn't in a habit of publicizing its secret failures especially if harm to the public occurred.

Here's an odd bit:
"I had the good fortune to meet Betty and Vickey at the 1996 MUFON Convention in Pensacola, Florida.
I have a photograph of Betty, Vickey, Walt Andrus and his wife, which I took, hanging on my wall, here in my computer room."
From Re: In Memorium... Betty Cash

I had not heard about the witnesses attending any UFO conventions. My attempt to reach the author of the post failed. Can anyone confirm this story?

By the way, I've started collecting some material on this case at my UFO blog, starting with a map of the sighting location and a collection of the video coverage.
Blue Blurry Lines

aliensporebomb, I'm glad you found this thread, and you make some good points about sorting out the true details in this case.

Originally posted by aliensporebomb
I remember that "Falcon" a supposed U.S. (disinfo?) agent appeared on that TV special "UFO Coverup Live" with host Mike Farrell in the 1980s responding to Cash and Landrum claiming it was an "alien craft"...

a full bird colonel being quoted off the record that they ditched this thing in the Gulf of Mexico after the encounter and some others had been similarly ditched as whatever technology we were employing was not only dirty and dangerous but not reliable either and no news on the fate of the pilots involved.

I think I found the source of your Colonel & Gulf of Mexico story:
Robert Collins speculation on the Cash-Landrum UFO being Alien/USG craft
I don't have a copy of it, but reviews indicate that this story was repeated in Collins' book Exempt From Disclosure.

As for Falcon and Condor, that traces back to the same source, Robert Collins and Richard Doty. I think their contribution of information on this case is inaccurate, and perhaps deliberately so. I won't speculate on their motivations, beyond saying at the time this case was very well publicized and it is not unusual that it would be a topic of UFO conversation.

Aw what a good feeling this thread pops up every once in a while

Thanks for the new suggestions, some are really interesting!

Falcon and Condor, hm I think these guys are not credible or even may be dis-info agents.

This guy, ladies and gentlemen, knows something ("Star Flight pilot Willy Culberson"):

powerofusinaustinisd.blogspot.com...

I'm convinced he would give a glimpse of truth if just one person contected him about the incident. He's still active in the flight business as you can see.

I would try to contact that guy and see if he would join this discussion (if he wants to remain anonymous but I'm afraid my English isn't that great. I would love to find out more, even if it's just a piece of the puzzle.