An in-depth (re)view of the Cash/ Landrum case

Originally posted by CardDown
reply to post by Dalbeck

 

New Blog post with links to 3 radio programs discussing the case:
blueblurrylines.blogspot.com...

Note: in one of them John Schuessler strongly argues against the military craft theory, saying there is no evidence for it. (Sadly, there is not much positive evidence of any kind.

Thank you so much for this great blog CardDown!! It provides some good information! I will listen to the mp3s you upped.

Maybe the USAF/ military wasn't really involved directly. Another agency? But which agency would be capable to do so?

I'm more and more leaning towards the theory of finter: a Hydrazine powered craft/ balloon, like a giant Chinese lantern maybe That would explain the physical effects of the victims and the floating and de-/ascending of the craft!!! Lead would've been to heavy to be lifted so it had to be some kind of lighter material....

A new thought:

- maybe the NASA was involved and tested a new craft. In this case, could they just call the USAF to intercept the craft being out of control?

So in fact the USAF didn't even lie about not being involved in any testing....

John Schuessler himself has pretty thouroughly debunked the test craft hypothesis. Comparing it to any known project, it wouldlikely take ten years or more just to build a flying prototype. Most projects rushed together faster than that ususally involve just reconfiguring existing planes such as what happened in the case of the U-2 spy plane and the C-130 in the Credible Sport project.

The personnell involved in building and operating such a craft would be numerous. If we add them to the scores of alleged silent helicopter support staff, and command crew, then a conspiracy of silence must have involved well over a hundred people.

There are serious concerns regarding the secondary witnesses. Schuessler says thay were recruited via pleas to help the witnesses in the media. No one had indepently reported a UFO or helicopter activity to the authoruites. As Schuessler's investigation proved, there was military helicopter in the area. It is possible the witnesses incorporated elements of seeing a genuine exercise and somehow wove it into a story connecting Betty Cash's illnesses to it. When the story came out, most people could honestly saw they'd seen and heard nothing, but some were moved to say they had seen helicopters that night.

According to the witnesses, they could see the UFO as it flew towards West while they were driving East towards Dayton. It should have been visible for many miles. The noise generated by just half the helicopters they reported should have been enough cause half of the city of Huffman to examine it. Yet, witness Lamar Walker claimed they were still flying around after midnight. If the UFO was half as spectacular as the witnesses reported, it should have been visible to many, many people, including the staff at the Houston International airport, which was just a few miles away.

The story just doesn't hold water, but it picked up something most UFO stories don't get- a credible investigator in the person of John F. Schuessler. While he was quick to say he was not investigating the UFO for NASA, the staus of his employment gave the case an air of legitimacy. Without his involvement, the case might have faded away after its debut in the Weekly World News, UFO case of the week.

Originally posted by Dalbeck
A new thought:

- maybe the NASA was involved and tested a new craft. In this case, could they just call the USAF to intercept the craft being out of control?

So in fact the USAF didn't even lie about not being involved in any testing....

Dalbeck, you are doing an admirable job honestly pursuing this case.

At the risk of not sounding conspiratorial enough for ATS on a UFO topic, I would be flabbergasted if this turned out to be a failed test of some hidden NASA program.

You should contact James Oberg (bona fide expert on all things weird regarding NASA) with your suspicions as this would be exactly his field of expertise.

He posts here on ATS quite often and is an engaging, approachable person.

I do think you are on to something with the hydrazine, I just don't believe it came from a NASA.

Originally posted by CardDown
John Schuessler himself has pretty thouroughly debunked the test craft hypothesis. Comparing it to any known project, it wouldlikely take ten years or more just to build a flying prototype. Most projects rushed together faster than that ususally involve just reconfiguring existing planes such as what happened in the case of the U-2 spy plane and the C-130 in the Credible Sport project.

Schuessler may be right with comparing it to a known project, but who knows how many unknown projects were undergoing a level of testing. A branch with ultimately "unlimited" (financial and human) resources could put together a new project in a short time… Or the reported UFO is a shoot off of a project from years ago, like the NERVA project....

Originally posted by CardDown
The personnell involved in building and operating such a craft would be numerous. If we add them to the scores of alleged silent helicopter support staff, and command crew, then a conspiracy of silence must have involved well over a hundred people.

Why not? Just look at other “conspiracies” which involved over hundreds of people or just take a look at other more “real life” things like the proving of the B2…. I think there are always a lot of people involved in “special projects” who keep their mouths shut for decades…

Originally posted by CardDown
There are serious concerns regarding the secondary witnesses. Schuessler says thay were recruited via pleas to help the witnesses in the media. No one had indepently reported a UFO or helicopter activity to the authoruites. As Schuessler's investigation proved, there was military helicopter in the area. It is possible the witnesses incorporated elements of seeing a genuine exercise and somehow wove it into a story connecting Betty Cash's illnesses to it. When the story came out, most people could honestly saw they'd seen and heard nothing, but some were moved to say they had seen helicopters that night.

Maybe there is a connection between the helicopters and the Iran hostage crisis at that time? Maybe they were testing a troop carrier to get the hostages out? Or the craft was controlled by CCTV and had cameras on board and would’ve been applied as a drone in the hostage crisis?? But why should a military exercise (with just helicopters) being connected to Cash’s illnesses when helicopters don’t have such terrible effects on the human body…? I think the connection between the helicopters and this “craft” is too compelling and evident for closing one’s eyes.

Originally posted by CardDown

According to the witnesses, they could see the UFO as it flew towards West while they were driving East towards Dayton. It should have been visible for many miles. The noise generated by just half the helicopters they reported should have been enough cause half of the city of Huffman to examine it. Yet, witness Lamar Walker claimed they were still flying around after midnight. If the UFO was half as spectacular as the witnesses reported, it should have been visible to many, many people, including the staff at the Houston International airport, which was just a few miles away.

Keep in mind the area is a prime example of a rural area. Houses with great distances, less people… who were already sleeping or didn’t pay a lot of attention to helicopter noises because they were used to it (some military installations in Texas).

As for the staff at the Houston IA, don’t you think the military could have imposed a ban on speaking like it happened already before?

Just my 2 cents…

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Dalbeck, you are doing an admirable job honestly pursuing this case.

At the risk of not sounding conspiratorial enough for ATS on a UFO topic, I would be flabbergasted if this turned out to be a failed test of some hidden NASA program.

You should contact James Oberg (bona fide expert on all things weird regarding NASA) with your suspicions as this would be exactly his field of expertise.

He posts here on ATS quite often and is an engaging, approachable person.

I do think you are on to something with the hydrazine, I just don't believe it came from a NASA.

Hi Drunkenparrot

Thank you so much buddy! I really want to know what really happened that specific night and get just a tiny bit of justice for the victims after all.

What a great idea, I will try to reach Mr. Oberg, I think I've seen a thread with him discussing actively before

Yes, the hydrazine theory has more plausibilty than the "radioactive" theory and would eliminate a BIG problem we had before: how could a water tower sized object with lead shielding being lifted.

You should contact James Oberg (bona fide expert on all things weird regarding NASA) with your suspicions as this would be exactly his field of expertise.

He posts here on ATS quite often and is an engaging, approachable person.

Also quite biased and not worth the time, maybe someone else.

i always found this to be a particularly intriguing case. thanks for the thread

Originally posted by Imtor

You should contact James Oberg (bona fide expert on all things weird regarding NASA) with your suspicions as this would be exactly his field of expertise.

He posts here on ATS quite often and is an engaging, approachable person.

Also quite biased and not worth the time, maybe someone else.

I disagree. He has made statements that at least allow that the story is based on a genuine event involving a helicopter exercise.:

"That was an interesting case in the sense that it was one of these outliers that have a bright light being carried away by helicopters low across the skies," Oberg says. "That's really bizarre and as far as we know, that, if accurately reported, was the only case where that ever really happened."

www.msnbc.msn.com...

I've contacted Mr. Oberg and asked him to join this thread We'll see if he shares his knowledge and points of view in the case of joining our discussion

Just a little update:

Still no reply from Mr. Oberg

Originally posted by Dalbeck
Just a little update:

Still no reply from Mr. Oberg

Because when you know something is a real case and did happen, and cannot debunk it, better is to stay hidden in your mouse hole.

Originally posted by ImpactoR

Originally posted by Dalbeck
Just a little update:

Still no reply from Mr. Oberg

Because when you know something is a real case and did happen, and cannot debunk it, better is to stay hidden in your mouse hole.

Yes, that seems plausible

I though made conatct to Dan Marro who wants to produce a doc about the incident. Hopefully he will join this thread

the massive number of helicopters flying around should be noted somewhere in some log. are there no info on helo activities at that time ? i mean no way that many helicopters can fly around without leaving some kind of paper trail or witnesses on the military side.

chinook are US army exclusive , right ? unless its phrogs operated by USMC ? but sending massive number of helos just to accompany this thing sounds fishy. is this exercize ? or accident ? or test going haywire ?

based on the story i feel like this is a man made event, just wondering what kind of man made event is this.. reading thru all the post and the hot air balloon or special kind of balloon sound plausible.. but i dunno if military / army use helo in numbers just to accompany a baloon ?

Originally posted by milomilo
the massive number of helicopters flying around should be noted somewhere in some log. are there no info on helo activities at that time ? i mean no way that many helicopters can fly around without leaving some kind of paper trail or witnesses on the military side.

chinook are US army exclusive , right ? unless its phrogs operated by USMC ? but sending massive number of helos just to accompany this thing sounds fishy. is this exercize ? or accident ? or test going haywire ?

based on the story i feel like this is a man made event, just wondering what kind of man made event is this.. reading thru all the post and the hot air balloon or special kind of balloon sound plausible.. but i dunno if military / army use helo in numbers just to accompany a baloon ?

Since the USAF denied any connection to this event in the first place I think there are no logs or official records available to the public. Sure there are witnesses on the military side but no one will talk about it, not even decades after it happened.

I'm pretty sure that the Major from the "UFO Hunters" episode "Alien Fallout" who talked to Colby Landrum is lying and knows exactly what type of craft they were testing this specific night - but he won't tell, fearing to lose any claim of retirement.

I think we can pretty sure say it was a man made event, an accident.

Concerning your last question about the huge amount of military helos accompanying "just" a "balloon" I think it's safe to say that it may be just been a balloon but the nature (engine....) and the mission of it are top secret to this day.

We are just waking up to TONS of artifacts on mars.
If you remember, when Lonnie Zamora saw the OVAL ufo, when it took off it emitted flames ! Why is that important? Because the really advanced civilizations from distant planet and galaxies could be millions of years ahead of us. Thus no need for flames, but mars could be half and half. They could still be ahead of us 500 years in space technology etc. But not millions and still in the stone age compared to some incredibly advanced civilization.

I say take very seriously the fact that martians live underground. The tubes that seem natural from the debunkers point of view are in fact underground martians molding nature to fit their purposes and protection from the elements etc.

Lonnie Zamora saw a martian space team (two outside the craft. So did Gary Wilcox on the same day April 24th 1964. He claimed to have TALKED to them for two hours. He didn't see flames in my opinion though I think it was the same craft because it hovered on that incident. Though it was oval just like Lonnies and the two men had uniforms that seem the same from head to toe.

A craft from the US would not be messing around burning people on a public highway in my opinion!

There is MORE and MORE mars anomalies being leaked out by nasa, though they deny. I say look to mars and the civilization that lives underground there. In my opinion!

reply to post by thetiler


Thanks for your opinion on this case although I'm not with you on this But like you said everybody's entitled to his/ her own opinion

reply to post by Dalbeck


Excellent work on this thread (I know it's older, but still nice to see it). This is one of my favorite cases, and in fact, this thread kept me from doing a writeup on it myself. This always remained in my "best cases" examples from all of the factors involved.

reply to post by Gazrok


Thank you so much Gazrok!

I really wonder if the truth about this incident will ever come out!

Originally posted by thetiler
We are just waking up to TONS of artifacts on mars.
If you remember, when Lonnie Zamora saw the OVAL ufo, when it took off it emitted flames ! Why is that important? Because the really advanced civilizations from distant planet and galaxies could be millions of years ahead of us. Thus no need for flames, but mars could be half and half. They could still be ahead of us 500 years in space technology etc. But not millions and still in the stone age compared to some incredibly advanced civilization.

I say take very seriously the fact that martians live underground. The tubes that seem natural from the debunkers point of view are in fact underground martians molding nature to fit their purposes and protection from the elements etc.

Lonnie Zamora saw a martian space team (two outside the craft. So did Gary Wilcox on the same day April 24th 1964. He claimed to have TALKED to them for two hours. He didn't see flames in my opinion though I think it was the same craft because it hovered on that incident. Though it was oval just like Lonnies and the two men had uniforms that seem the same from head to toe.

A craft from the US would not be messing around burning people on a public highway in my opinion!

There is MORE and MORE mars anomalies being leaked out by nasa, though they deny. I say look to mars and the civilization that lives underground there. In my opinion!

at the risk of derailing this thread. i dont believe zamora is looking at human powered vehicle. i think its more like the usual tricks that these entities perform for humans.. although the usual pattern is not there in zamora's case, but connecting it with mars is a bit farfetched, i mean there are no mars artifact other than those drummed up by some people.. as for mars as alien base, i dont believe that hypothesis.

again i think discussion of martian anomaly are beyond the scope of this thread. please go to topic at hand.