For anyone that has any doubt as to the identity of Jesus Christ

reply to post by XplanetX

What on earth are you talking about?

God used men to carry out his judgement.

It was a far more brutal culture.

Correction: Yahweh used men to carry out his judgements.

I get it! You, and 99.99% of Christians want to worship Yahweh "the unchanging" as if he were God.
If he is unchanging as he and you claim, then the brutality of that culture will never change. Congratulations! Welcome to the Iron Age!

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by XplanetX

What on earth are you talking about?

God used men to carry out his judgement.

It was a far more brutal culture.

Correction: Yahweh used men to carry out his judgements.

I get it! You, and 99.99% of Christians want to worship Yahweh "the unchanging" as if he were God.
If he is unchanging as he and you claim, then the brutality of that culture will never change. Congratulations! Welcome to the Iron Age!

He is unchanging.

We have changed.

These days we kill people using different methods. Atomic bombs, gas chambers, missiles, bio chemical warfare etc....

The list is long.

reply to post by XplanetX

We have changed.

Then let's try this. We in the Western World have enjoyed freedom of religion for 200 years. Yet, racial memory of century after century of death to heretics (heresy means choice) has left its mark in the collective conscious. The mark is: heresy(freedom of religion) leads to death.

Before official Roman Christianity was established, there were many opinions concerning whether Yahweh had any relevance to Christ and the God of Jesus. One opinion, that Yahweh is the God of Jesus, gained official state Roman recognition. All those who disagreed were forced to accept or die. This continued century after century, until all choice in the matter was destroyed.

Ingrained inherited fear of choice is what keeps Christians from changing their thinking. Fear, Fear, Fear.

Did I say fear? Yes, fear! FEAR Christians are scardy cats. Afraid of believing what Rome has not allowed.

Freedom of religion is wasted on Christians.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by XplanetX

We have changed.

Then let's try this. We in the Western World have enjoyed freedom of religion for 200 years. Yet, racial memory of century after century of death to heretics (heresy means choice) has left its mark in the collective conscious. The mark is: heresy(freedom of religion) leads to death.

Before official Roman Christianity was established, there were many opinions concerning whether Yahweh had any relevance to Christ and the God of Jesus. One opinion, that Yahweh is the God of Jesus, gained official state Roman recognition. All those who disagreed were forced to accept or die. This continued century after century, until all choice in the matter was destroyed.

Ingrained inherited fear of choice is what keeps Christians from changing their thinking. Fear, Fear, Fear.

Did I say fear? Yes, fear! FEAR Christians are scardy cats. Afraid of believing what Rome has not allowed.

Freedom of religion is wasted on Christians.

edit on 26-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)

Thats where you are wrong. Many of us choose to serve God because he saved us when no one else could. Jesus Christ is God, he IS the Word made flesh as John the Baptist stated, he IS I AM for Jesus said to the pharisees "I AM, the truth the life and the way, no one comes to the Father but through me", he IS the Lord we pray to. "In the beginning there was the WORD, and the WORD was with God and the Word was God", he came to save his people the jews as he promised Adam he would, and saved his adopted children the christians because we would believe in him when no one else would. We choose to serve Christ because he loved us when no one else would, when everyone else put us to death for believing in Him and we WILL stand our ground for Him forever more. Our works are for Him and it is to Him we sing. The "Father" was the part of Him that was left in heaven when he sent a portion of himself to earth. Jesus Christ is Lord and i will not recant even if i go to my death. Paul had the courage to die for Him, we can do no less if we are called to it.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by XplanetX

We have changed.

Then let's try this. We in the Western World have enjoyed freedom of religion for 200 years. Yet, racial memory of century after century of death to heretics (heresy means choice) has left its mark in the collective conscious. The mark is: heresy(freedom of religion) leads to death.

Before official Roman Christianity was established, there were many opinions concerning whether Yahweh had any relevance to Christ and the God of Jesus. One opinion, that Yahweh is the God of Jesus, gained official state Roman recognition. All those who disagreed were forced to accept or die. This continued century after century, until all choice in the matter was destroyed.

Ingrained inherited fear of choice is what keeps Christians from changing their thinking. Fear, Fear, Fear.

Did I say fear? Yes, fear! FEAR Christians are scardy cats. Afraid of believing what Rome has not allowed.

Freedom of religion is wasted on Christians.

edit on 26-8-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)

I am free.

Free in Christ!



JN 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

JN 8:33 They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

JN 8:34 Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father. "

JN 8:39 "Abraham is our father," they answered.
"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the things your own father does."
"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

JN 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Jesus Christ is Lord and i will not recant

All right then.

reply to post by XplanetX

I am free.

Free in Christ!

All righty then. I hope that includes freedom from their "father, the devil".

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Jesus Christ is God, he IS the Word made flesh as John the Baptist stated. . .

This unusual statement by you caused me to take a closer look at this verse, so here is my translation:
"There came about a situation to where the message of God to humanity dwelt among us"
I realize that the KJB makes it sound like the word was created somehow into flesh, but the word translated as Made, as it is found in John 1:14, is never used to mean that.
"It just happened to be this way", is how it should be understood in this construction, and the "happen to be" is the dwelling among us.
I don't know why it was translated as it was, other than to make a particular point out of it for a doctrinal reason I suppose. But there is just no way that it is the right way to translate it. This is maybe the greatest hoax ever perpetrated, is all I can figure. I seriously recommend that everyone think again on this whole thing, in the light of what the Greek text is saying. I often see people using this verse as proof that Jesus is God, but it is nothing of the kind.

ETA: I never bothered to translate this particular verse before because I never depended on it as some sort of proof and just looking at it in its full context shows it had to be understood like that anyway. My translation is just a confirmation of it, to me.
That does not mean I went about it with that already in mind as my result. I went through several steps to arrive at my final result and was willing to accept whatever the text was going to show me.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by XplanetX

I am free.

Free in Christ!

All righty then. I hope that includes freedom from their "father, the devil".

I am just like a pharisee and saducee eh?

I should hope not.

I have a background in astronomy and so something about the Moses story which stood out for me is:

Exodus 32
1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

So Moses goes up Mount Sinai and after a while the Jews get bored and decide to make a golden calf
this is after the god of Moses had just lead them out of Egypt, robbed – sorry borrowed all the Egyptians bling - then killed Pharaoh, fed them, is a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire at night but even so they decide to make a golden calf to worship – which makes no sense what so ever

So is something else going on, is this symbolic?

Golden like the sun and calf could be cow/bull so Taurus perhaps?

Age of Taurus • Zodiacal 30 degrees: •
Neil Mann interpretation: began in ca. 4300 BC and ended in ca. 2150 BC.

Constellation boundary year:
Shephard Simpson interpretation: began ca. 4525 BC to ca. 1875 BC ^

and there's:
Jerome's Chronicon (4th century) gives 1592 for the birth of Moses
The 17th-century Ussher chronology calculates 1619 BC (Annals of the World, 1658)

it seems this idea is well known, i found this:

When Moses was said to have descended from the mountain with the ten commandments (c. 17th - 13th century BC, the end of the Age of Taurus),some of his people or followers were found by him to be worshipping a golden bull calf. He instructed these false idol-worshippers to be killed. This represents Moses "killing" the bull and ending the Age of Taurus, and ushering in the Age of Aries, which he represents.

3.bp.blogspot.com...

i104.photobucket.com...

www.kiltmen.com...
(Moses with (rams?) horns)

www.bible-history.com...
Egyptian golden calf?

So the Old Testament was written in the Age of Aries and has references to Lambs/Ram Shepherds. The Ram is the Astrological symbol for Aries. Jesus Christ often used the symbolic reference to the Lamb in his teachings and Parables. And the Lamb was sacrificed at then end of the age of Aries to usher in the age of Pisces

Moses/Jesus=sun

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


You wrote (as an answer to "freedom of religion is wasted on Christians"):

["Thats where you are wrong. Many of us choose to serve God because he saved us when no one else could."]

Which suits you and has been a benefit for you. And which nobody denies you your individual right to.

But without putting words in pthena's mouth, I will continue along the line of thought he started and add: "Yes, for some christians freedom of religion is wasted", because the rest of this post I here refer to is one long pushy 'one-size-religion-fits-all' sermon, with the common christian 'absolutes' dished out.

reply to post by XplanetX


You wrote:

["I am free.

Free in Christ!"]

And I am free,

free from religion.

Which is my individual choice, on par with other individual choices. And where you try to push 'absolutes', I try to push egalitarian co-existence.

Your kind of 'freedom' isn't freedom, except for you. If you push YOUR freedom, it's tyranny.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You wrote:

["I am free.

Free in Christ!"]

And I am free,

free from religion.

Which is my individual choice, on par with other individual choices. And where you try to push 'absolutes', I try to push egalitarian co-existence.

Your kind of 'freedom' isn't freedom, except for you. If you push YOUR freedom, it's tyranny.

Wow. It's almost as if I held a gun to your head.

A little more melodrama will get you onto the set of "Days of our lives".

reply to post by racasan


Interesting. I'm not an expert but I wouldn't doubt in the past many religions incorporated astrology in their beliefs. I would like to point out the Pharaoh didn't die in Exodus. But I do wonder about the Golden Calf. I read up that God has no image in Judaism. So, before the Jews of the time knew or at least did know about God in their belief system. They turned God into an idol for worship. Which of course turned ugly when Moses came down from the mountain. I haven't read the article in a while. Very fun read about the Golden Calf. I was always told they created another God. Not make God into an idol which is the Golden Calf.

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You wrote:

["I am free.

Free in Christ!"]

And I am free,

free from religion.

Which is my individual choice, on par with other individual choices. And where you try to push 'absolutes', I try to push egalitarian co-existence.

Your kind of 'freedom' isn't freedom, except for you. If you push YOUR freedom, it's tyranny.

Wow. It's almost as if I held a gun to your head.

A little more melodrama will get you onto the set of "Days of our lives".

Fanatic ideologies regularly hold a gun to mankind's head, to promote THEIR version of a Jesus (or Marx or capitalist economy). That's VERY melodramatic, and my concern is ofcourse annoying and out-of-place, when it interrrupts the preaching.

reply to post by ManOfGod267


Hi ManOfGod267, yes you are right Pharaoh didn't die in Exodus, I was mentally replaying Charlton Heston (and failed) when I should have checked that fact


I have an idea that the bible is meant to be read on two levels, first by the goyim/uninitiated – simple people who read and believe the stories as they are written

And a second meaning that’s hidden except to those initiated into the old mystery schools – (or in the case of the Moses thing someone knowing enough astronomy to spot its about the procession of the equinoxes)

Its why at face value the bible stories are non-sense, the uninitiated believer is told to simply have >faith< in the stories and that “gods” ways are not man's way and all the other happy clappy stuff the faithful come out with when called to defend their stories


As proof consider:
Good Shepherd Apollo
www.jesusneverexisted.com...
or
www.wetcanvas.com...
or
www.wetcanvas.com...

hermes good shepherd
upload.wikimedia.org...
or
upload.wikimedia.org...

jesus good shepherd
www.soulshepherding.org...
or
2.bp.blogspot.com...

to quote peter pan/ Battlestar Galactica,
"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You wrote:

["I am free.

Free in Christ!"]

And I am free,

free from religion.

Which is my individual choice, on par with other individual choices. And where you try to push 'absolutes', I try to push egalitarian co-existence.

Your kind of 'freedom' isn't freedom, except for you. If you push YOUR freedom, it's tyranny.

Wow. It's almost as if I held a gun to your head.

A little more melodrama will get you onto the set of "Days of our lives".

Fanatic ideologies regularly hold a gun to mankind's head, to promote THEIR version of a Jesus (or Marx or capitalist economy). That's VERY melodramatic, and my concern is ofcourse annoying and out-of-place, when it interrrupts the preaching.

You won't interrupt my preaching brother.


2TI 4:1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

reply to post by racasan


There is no doubting Jesus has major influence from outside sources. I.E. the concept of Jesus is more influenced from religions outside than Judaism that Jesus appears more watered down. It's the person who believes it. I don't but respect your choice to believe in Jesus.

It's not that long ago (historically) that secular and egalitarian, yes SECULAR....., principles made it possible for pentacostals to practise their religion legitimately in my country.

Before that there was compulsary church-going to a church endless dronings on THE 'authorized' version of Jesus, 'god', whatever and THE 'authorized' bible-interpretation and behaviour.

But some people never learn and yearn for the good old times of self-proclaimed authority.

Those were the days.

reply to post by XplanetX


With my interpretation comments inserted:

2TI 4:1 In the presence of ....[this version of]....God and of .....[this optional]..... Christ Jesus, who will... [according to some].... judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom ...[if it happens]..., I ...[on self-proclaimed authority]... give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke... [violence justified by OT in case]... and encourage--with great patience and careful ...[one-way]... instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine...[i.e. what's 'authorized'].... Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of...[liberal]... teachers to say what their itching ears...[or inquisition-tortured bodies]..... want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth...[this 'truth'].... and turn aside to myths....[other myths].... But you, keep your head in all situations...[stop thinking by yourself]...., endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your....[self-proclaimed].... ministry.

That is just another way of looking at it.