London riots spreading to Birmingham, Leeds

reply to post by jameshawkings


I agree that the rioters are too organized at times, however I do not agree that Sony was an insurance job, SOny is making a profit and is now currently going into their "busy" period ( inside information).
I always thought htat Sony stood for Sued Over Not paying taxes Yet.

Originally posted by SprocketUK
reply to post by cheesyleps

 

No need to apologise, I left school in 85 and its still a bit of a shock to think that anyone born after Grange Hill finished would be a grown up, with a job! :-D
Nice choice on the Blackbird, btw. (My commuter is an old XL1200 Evo).

Anyhow, what you are describing are fairly well off people. The folks doing the looting can only get credit if they have a money box on the telly, couldn't dream of owning a house (even though rent is much more than a mortgage), and if they have a job, it's likely to be minimum wage and have no prospects, pension plan etc.

Yes, trying to make yourself feel better by outspending the neighbours is daft, but what if that's not an option? If all you see is growing old in the same estate you were born in and always struggling?
That's a harsh existence and it will screw anyone up.

No worries. I think I just did everything early. Married with a mortgage at 25 is probably a touch unusual. Just been for a blast on the Blackbird to clear my head. This whole situation is giving me a knot in my stomach that is making me feel sick. I genuinely feel something major coming over the next few nights.

Half of the reason they can never dream of getting a house is because they are too addicted to the benefits gravy train. The benefits are there to be milked when homes are rented, they don't want to know you if you have a mortgage. Sure, credit isn't as easy to get now as it was, but 3 or 4 years ago they were giving it away like it was nothing. I know I had friends at nautical college who were able to rack up 7 or 8 grand in credit cards and overdrafts and they were students with no incomes.

I think me expanding on my personal circumstances might help here. My current situation isn't quite as rosy as I may have made out, but it is with a direction. I left school at 18 with good A levels, went to Nautical College, met my wife and qualified as a Merchant Navy Navigation Officer. Damn good job, £32k a year on qualification, pay no tax whatsoever, 5 months a year paid leave, and you only need 5 GCSEs to begin the training.

Unfortunately, just over a year ago I was diagnosed with a medical condition that precludes me from working at sea. Luckily the only debts we had were the mortgage, never fancied paying finance on cars etc. My savings paid off what was owed towards our wedding and tided us over until I found another job.

I managed to find several part time jobs that didn't clash, took my private hire taxi drivers licence test and started working as a taxi driver (which is much better money than most people realise, by cherry picking shifts I can bring in £400 by working 30 hours). I decided I needed a career plan so went and spoke to my old college lecturers about shore-based opportunities in the shipping industry. They pretty much offered me a job as a lecturer at the college on the spot (gave me an hour to plan a lesson on chartwork and present it to several lecturers as if they were students). In order to take the job offer up I need to convert my foundation degree to a Honours degree by going to uni for one year (which I start in September). My position at the college is being held until then. Long term, I plan to move from the nautical college when I have my PGCE and become a school teacher. Better pensions.

The point of that convoluted story? I fell on hard times, I had some savings so wasn't eligible for benefits, but none of what I did, except the wedding which you could say was non-essential anyway (just don't tell the wife) would be off the radar to someone receiving benefits. I put my pride aside and took any job I could, because I needed to. If you are willing to work, there is work out there.

Even "menial" jobs have prospects. My brother started off by working in a call centre selling double glazing, got good at phone sales by working hard, moved to Barclays to sell banking services, worked hard, got very good at it and has worked his way up several rungs in the department. He has just taken a position as a performance consultant on 35k a year plus comission. He left school with six GCSEs.

I sincerely believe there is always a way out of these situations if you are willing to work hard enough to find it. Rioting and looting is not the way to do it. That nice plasma you just looted won't put food on the table or pay towards your retirement.

Had I not had an unexpected medical issue, I would have had a job for life. When my circumstances changed I didn't sit around moping and expecting the world to feel sorry for me and pay my way in the world. I have taken the bull by the horns and my life into my own hands. Stuff happens, we deal with it. Is that not the essence of being an adult?

Originally posted by catmafiareturns
It's apparently starting to kick off in Birmingham again, rumours that groups are planning to meet at 5pm

Erdington and Sutton Coldfield areas are being heavily policed apparently for fear it will spread there

Can't see Sutton having a riot myself but if it does I will let you all know later

I spent my childhood in Sutton Coldfield............ it is a fairly well to do area BUT when I was back there a few months ago.I did notice it had gone down in standards a little bit from when I lived there in the 70's and 80's.........

PDUK

Originally posted by cheesyleps

Originally posted by SprocketUK
reply to post by cheesyleps

 

How old are you, Cheesy? I ask, cos there's a world of difference in growing up prior to the mid 80s and after.
Yes, you got out and weren't held back by your roots, but I'd say its next to impossible these days.

I'm 25. I was born in 1986.

My brother is 20 and was born in 1991 and he has gone the same way I have, but hasn't got out of the city yet due to his work being based there. He didn't go down the academic route I did, but has managed to work his way up to a good supervisory position in Barclays in the space of 4 years.

My point is there are still opportunities for those with a decent upbringing that instills a proper moral compass and a real work ethic. Both of us are more determined than most to never to have to bring our own children up on unemployment benefits because we saw first hand just how difficult it was for our parents. That is where I don't understand how so many people are happy to scrounge for multiple generations. It's a miserable existence on the bread line, but the one thing we always had was pride! That seems to have disappeared.

edit on 9/8/11 by cheesyleps because: Added the last two sentences.

What you say is all well and good but it's idealist fantasy.

If everyone worked as hard as you, guess what, people would still be in poverty. The system we're living under doesn't allow for everyone to work hard, be a success and live a good life.

For you to succeed, others must fail.

Originally posted by Cythraul

Originally posted by NadaCambia
If an Indian is born in England, they're English. That's the law, that's a fact.

Where on your passport does it say 'English'? It's not law, it's not fact. "British" is a political designation, "English" is an ethnic one. We've been over this - deny ignorance!

But you're wrong. You live in Disney Land, your own little fantasy world outside of reality.

English is a nationality, no matter how hard the fat cats in London try to eradicate England.

Originally posted by SprocketUK
Wow, really is turning into a hang em and flog em fest, isn't it?

Lots of comments along the lines of why and questioning what people are attacking. Here's my two p's worth.

First, the areas these folks live in are deprived holes, they grow up knowing that even if they stay home and study and work till they drop, and scrimp and save their whole lives, that they will have absolutely sweet fa. They also know that others just fiddle the system and have millions. What hope is there? None. So they smash hell out of what they can get to and nick things they otherwise couldn't afford.
It's rage, it doesn't have to make sense.

Yes they often damage their own communities, but some times people just get so mad they lash out, even when it hurts them.

Until we stop allowing millions of lives to be squandered so that a few can amass obscene wealth, there will always be this hopelessness.

I live in probably the most deprived, government forgotten black hole of all - Stoke!
Anyone rioting / looting here? Nope.

Have a guess why?
The mahoosive EDL / BNP sympathy.

In sutton now? thats just down my road, luckly for me my city is mainly occupied by old people. Are they just goin to do the train line route?

Originally posted by cheesyleps

Originally posted by SprocketUK
reply to post by cheesyleps

 

No need to apologise, I left school in 85 and its still a bit of a shock to think that anyone born after Grange Hill finished would be a grown up, with a job! :-D
Nice choice on the Blackbird, btw. (My commuter is an old XL1200 Evo).

Anyhow, what you are describing are fairly well off people. The folks doing the looting can only get credit if they have a money box on the telly, couldn't dream of owning a house (even though rent is much more than a mortgage), and if they have a job, it's likely to be minimum wage and have no prospects, pension plan etc.

Yes, trying to make yourself feel better by outspending the neighbours is daft, but what if that's not an option? If all you see is growing old in the same estate you were born in and always struggling?
That's a harsh existence and it will screw anyone up.

No worries. I think I just did everything early. Married with a mortgage at 25 is probably a touch unusual. Just been for a blast on the Blackbird to clear my head. This whole situation is giving me a knot in my stomach that is making me feel sick. I genuinely feel something major coming over the next few nights.

Half of the reason they can never dream of getting a house is because they are too addicted to the benefits gravy train. The benefits are there to be milked when homes are rented, they don't want to know you if you have a mortgage. Sure, credit isn't as easy to get now as it was, but 3 or 4 years ago they were giving it away like it was nothing. I know I had friends at nautical college who were able to rack up 7 or 8 grand in credit cards and overdrafts and they were students with no incomes.

I think me expanding on my personal circumstances might help here. My current situation isn't quite as rosy as I may have made out, but it is with a direction. I left school at 18 with good A levels, went to Nautical College, met my wife and qualified as a Merchant Navy Navigation Officer. Damn good job, £32k a year on qualification, pay no tax whatsoever, 5 months a year paid leave, and you only need 5 GCSEs to begin the training.

Unfortunately, just over a year ago I was diagnosed with a medical condition that precludes me from working at sea. Luckily the only debts we had were the mortgage, never fancied paying finance on cars etc. My savings paid off what was owed towards our wedding and tided us over until I found another job.

I managed to find several part time jobs that didn't clash, took my private hire taxi drivers licence test and started working as a taxi driver (which is much better money than most people realise, by cherry picking shifts I can bring in £400 by working 30 hours). I decided I needed a career plan so went and spoke to my old college lecturers about shore-based opportunities in the shipping industry. They pretty much offered me a job as a lecturer at the college on the spot (gave me an hour to plan a lesson on chartwork and present it to several lecturers as if they were students). In order to take the job offer up I need to convert my foundation degree to a Honours degree by going to uni for one year (which I start in September). My position at the college is being held until then. Long term, I plan to move from the nautical college when I have my PGCE and become a school teacher. Better pensions.

The point of that convoluted story? I fell on hard times, I had some savings so wasn't eligible for benefits, but none of what I did, except the wedding which you could say was non-essential anyway (just don't tell the wife) would be off the radar to someone receiving benefits. I put my pride aside and took any job I could, because I needed to. If you are willing to work, there is work out there.

Even "menial" jobs have prospects. My brother started off by working in a call centre selling double glazing, got good at phone sales by working hard, moved to Barclays to sell banking services, worked hard, got very good at it and has worked his way up several rungs in the department. He has just taken a position as a performance consultant on 35k a year plus comission. He left school with six GCSEs.

I sincerely believe there is always a way out of these situations if you are willing to work hard enough to find it. Rioting and looting is not the way to do it. That nice plasma you just looted won't put food on the table or pay towards your retirement.

I agree wholy with you.
I also left school with nothing more than a MAVO degree (Dutch version of GCSEs)
And now I work part-time as a data entry officer (posh title ain't it)
My husband a lower degree than I do, but he works full-time as a Forklift driver.
We rent, we manage. We just don't have any extra's (holidays, cars, home cinema sets, etc.)

Originally posted by NadaCambia


What you say is all well and good but it's idealist fantasy.

If everyone worked as hard as you, guess what, people would still be in poverty. The system we're living under doesn't allow for everyone to work hard, be a success and live a good life.

For you to succeed, others must fail.

No it is not. I worked for an oil company. My job was to transport oil from a refinery in one part of the world to a refinery in another.

My job was one element in a massive chain. Every element of the process requires jobs. Exploration, extraction, construction of refineries and infrastructure, port workers, shipbuilders, architects, insurers, coastguard, ship's crew etc etc. Not to mention that the entire motor industry is reliant upon that oil, and the motor industry requires road infrastructure in place which generates more jobs and on and on. It is a never ending cycle. To have a modern society every facet of it requires people doing jobs to allow it to continue. There are always jobs to be had. Not everyone will earn the same, but why should they? If fewer people are capable of doing my job than me, why should I not be rewarded for my rarer skills. Life may not be fair, but it certainly isn't bleak.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
English is a nationality, no matter how hard the fat cats in London try to eradicate England.

Yes and one of the key methods by which they're trying to eradicate England is to say that anyone can opt into Englishness. Honestly - do you even ponder the things you or your opponents say or do you just parrot the PC mindset? Tell me - how is England still England if it is not populated predominantly by ethnic English people and culture? Do you really just see "England" as a piece of land and "English" as a passport (I've already tried to explain how this is nonsensical but you persist in believing a British Citizen's passport states "English", so I'm playing along for now)? Is there really nothing more to Englishness than that?

Jeez,its going down in London.

What are all these riots all about?

Cheers

reply to post by cheesyleps


I agree, I get paid more than my husband even though I'm younger, I just do a job not a lot of people can do! So I think it is fair that employers pay different wages depending on the skillset required to do that job!
But I have also have seen a women on benefits refuse to take a cleaning job, because she felt it was beneath her! Ha, I have had cleaning jobs, logistic jobs, retail jobs and now an analytical job. If you want to work, then accept any job!

Feels strange to me watching the riots and for once Belfast isn't doing it.

I think incidents like this are going to kick off more and more as time goes on it's inevitable with less jobs and desperate people being made to feel like scum and betrayed by the system. I expect if things stay as they are the crime rates will go completely through the roof.

They may all seem to be mindless thugs but you can bet they aren't all idiots and some thought has went into this, for the record I disagree with what they are doing but at the same time I can see where they are coming from.

Originally posted by KhaliWitch
reply to post by cheesyleps

 

I agree, I get paid more than my husband even though I'm younger, I just do a job not a lot of people can do! So I think it is fair that employers pay different wages depending on the skillset required to do that job!
But I have also have seen a women on benefits refuse to take a cleaning job, because she felt it was beneath her! Ha, I have had cleaning jobs, logistic jobs, retail jobs and now an analytical job. If you want to work, then accept any job!

Hell yeah right on sista

Originally posted by BillyBoBBizWorth
Jeez,its going down in London.

What are all these riots all about?

Cheers

This is what happens when we ban parents from chastising their children...
This is what happens when we ban the cane in schools...
This is what happens when every little scumbag knows their rights...
This is what happens when the young think they are untouchable...
This is what happens when they think they run their turf, have no interested in jobs or education and deal in the black market...
This is what happens when you seize and cut off their drug dealing supply - They resort to looting shops.

reply to post by Wo0kiEE


It's just pure logical thinking on my part, but maybe I'm just one of the few that thinks like that?
I want to work, I do not want to sit there with my hand up scrounging off others. At least I can say that I have earned my money! It's a pride thing!

A Friend of mine has just text me to say riots have started in Oxford.. and a work colleague has just has a call from his wife to say Southampton is also seeing riots... that's all the info I have so far… this really is getting out of hand...

Originally posted by Suspiria

Originally posted by BillyBoBBizWorth
Jeez,its going down in London.

What are all these riots all about?

Cheers

1This is what happens when we ban parents from chastising their children...
2This is what happens when we ban the cane in schools...
3This is what happens when every little scumbag knows their rights...
4This is what happens when the young think they are untouchable...
5This is what happens when they think they run their turf, have no interested in jobs or education and deal in the black market...
6This is what happens when you seize and cut off their drug dealing supply - They resort to looting shops.

I agree with numbers 1, 4,5 and 6.
I do not agree with 2 (that's the jobs of the parents)
Ido not agree with 3 (the politics gave them more rights than they should have)

reply to post by Majestic RNA


Ooowww FFS, this has to stop spreading or we are gonna see a form of martial law in england soon!

reply to post by Majestic RNA


This is what the BEEB has to say
www.bbc.co.uk...