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Originally posted by tezzajw
Originally posted by LaBTop
Tezzajw, are you serious?
This is what I see and probably what a lot of other people see:
You created this thread with a really-really-really long, convoluted post. The start of your opening post and all the way through your opening post, you claimed that Balsamo stated the pushgate was D9 or D11.
Then, you admitted that was a mistake.
Essentially, you and Balsamo both agree that the data is highly suspicious. But, your attempt to discredit Balsamo didn't work as planned, when you had to backpedal and apologise for making the mistake that you did.
I agree with you that complete records about all of the arrivals/departures from the D concourse gates would be extremely benefical. How do you propse to obtain that information?
But, your attempt to discredit Balsamo didn't work as planned, when you had to backpedal and apologise for making the mistake that you did.
7/11
reply forward save delete
from: CherryV
sent: 7/8/11 at 08:09
Hi LabTop,
It is taking me a fair while to go thru your post bit by bit, so much I did not know and so I am following it up as I read through it.
I have been over to browse the Pilot forum too, why are they calling you a troll and saying you did not follow up time and time again with info? Im sorry to ask this, I thought maybe better to ask you in a PM, but feel free to add to a post if needs be.
I don't understand why they would be calling you a Troll for showing up info that they seem to have misrepresented, unless I am totally wrong here, you have done a helluva lot of hard work, and meticulously picked up on errors they have presented.
Are they trying to deliberately hide facts? Or is it a case of none can agree, or that someone is not happy that you found this out?
“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum — even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.”
Balsamo : I missed it all, because you did not provide a radius. Just as you have still failed to provide one in every one of your posts for any arc you have attempted to draw.
Let me know when you do, plug it into the formulas I have provided based on aerodynamics, and produce numbers based on speed. So far, you fail.
My arc you used is in the vertical. You have failed to provide a lateral radius for the turn NoC.
Do you even understand the argument? If past experience with you is any indication, you clearly do not.
QUOTE.I gave you the means to calculate the whole flight path after the return to level flight.ENDQUOTE
Do you think a 757 has an instantaneous roll rate?
Do you even know what a roll rate is?
Clearly not.
Let us know how much time you will allow for the aircraft to roll "level" from your NoC turn, after producing the numbers for radius, bank angles and G Loading for the NoC turn, combined with my vertical arc "pull" (which doesnt even impact the first floor). Good luck!
Ever hear the term, "When in Rome..."?
In other words LaBTop, if you are going to discuss the information with verified professionals, you may at least want to learn the terminology as you'll only end up confusing yourself, while the rest of us laugh.
LaBTop : Apr 4 2011, 03:11 PM Post #85
From the 757 - 200/300 Flight Crew Operations Manual :
QUOTE
The IRS consists of three Inertial Reference Units (IRUs) and the IRS Mode Selector Panel. (for the 200-series)
Fast Alignment
Following operation in the navigation mode and with the airplane parked, performing a fast alignment removes accumulated track, ground speed, and attitude errors, levels the system, and updates present position. This is accomplished by positioning selectors to ALIGN, entering present position, and repositioning selectors to NAV. Fast alignment completes in approximately 30 seconds.
Fast alignment can be accomplished without entering present position. However, greater navigational accuracy is attained by entering present position.
A full alignment must be accomplished when the time from the last full alignment to the completion of the next flight exceeds 18 hours.ENDQUOTE
The pilot should shift all 3 mode selector switches to ALIGN, then enter the present position, and switch all 3 back to NAV. If he does not enter the present position, but keeps it to the earlier, before the last engines-off position, f.ex. the main airport position which could have been entered after landing the last flight, that position would still hang in the IRS memory.
That position is very near to that gate, AA 77 has departed from, as officials tell us.
I do not believe in that scenario, but we have to look at all possible explanations, to be prepared for further back-tracking from the opposition.
rob balsamo : Apr 4 2011, 03:17 PM Post #86
QUOTE (LaBTop @ Apr 4 2011, 03:11 PM) *
From the 757 - 200/300 Flight Crew Operations Manual : ENDQUOTE
From the American Airlines 757/767 Pre-Flight Checklist (and sourced in the Original post/article of this thread)
(IMG: i47.photobucket.com... )
A FULL alignment is required prior to ALL flights.
QUOTE
That position is very near to that gate, AA 77 has departed from, as officials tell us.ENDQUOTE
No... it isnt "very near to the gate". It is more than 3000 feet in error. There has yet to be one verified pilot willing to come forward and say that he/she is willing to depart with an IRS having more than a 3,000 foot error. Every pilot i have spoken to would never have left the gate with such a large error, nor will I. Let us know when you find one that will. Those who claim to be pilots and make excuse for the govt story, arent even willing to put their name on such an absurd claim of departing with an IRS more than a half mile out of positional alignment.
LaBTop : Apr 4 2011, 03:39 PM Post #87
I am with you on this subject, don't worry, we are not all your enemies.
But always be prepared for any new arguments. Better from us, than from them.
Here are three screen shots from the IRS page in the FCOM :
Part one :
(IMG: files.abovetopsecret.com... )
Part two :
(IMG: files.abovetopsecret.com... )
Part three :
(IMG: files.abovetopsecret.com... )
I thought I read somewhere in this thread that the airport long/lat definition was very near that gate, I'll gonna check it, and find that post.
Probably that poster was in error then, or worded it a bit too broad.
QUOTE
Rob : ""A FULL alignment is required prior to ALL flights.
No... it isn't "very near to the gate". It is more than 3000 feet in error. There has yet to be one verified pilot willing to come forward and say that he/she is willing to depart with an IRS having more than a 3,000 foot error. Every pilot i have spoken to would never have left the gate with such a large error. "" ENDQUOTE
If the last full alignment was within 18 hours after completion of the next (to be flown) flight, a fast alignment seems to be OK.
According to this FCOM.
Balsamo : Apr 4 2011, 03:49 PM Post #88
QUOTE1 (LaBTop @ Apr 4 2011, 03:39 PM) *
Here are three screen shots from the IRS page in the FCOM :
ENDQUOTE
That is not from American Airlines. It is a generic document. Read, Learn and Study please.
QUOTE2
I thought I read somewhere in this thread that the airport long/lat definition was very near that gate, I'll gonna check it, and find that post.
Probably that poster was in error then, or worded it a bit too broad. ENDQUOTE
Once you shift the error/offset and align the lat/long with runways and taxiways, the plot is then departing a gate which is different than D26, the gate claimed to be used by "Aa77".
Read, study and learn.
pilotsfor911truth.org...
QUOTE3
If the last full alignment was within 18 hours after completion of the next (to be flown) flight, a fast alignment seems to be OK.
According to this FCOM. ENDQUOTE
Wrong. A FULL Alignment is required prior to all flights during Pre-Flight Checks on ALL American Airlines 757/767's. Again, your document is not from American Airlines, mine is.
The Pre-Flight Check does not occur "18 hours prior to departure". It occurs when you arrive at the aircraft and provide power with intention to board passengers and then go flying.
Read the American Airlines procedures.
The data is not from an American Airlines 757, nor the aircraft described as "AA77", nor does the data support an impact with the Pentagon.
Balsamo : Apr 5 2011, 12:07 AM Post #89
The rest of this "debate" with LaBTop has been moved to our Debate section here.
pilotsfor911truth.org...
Originally posted by tezzajw
Basic summary that I gather is:
You: Gate D18.
Balsamo: Gate D9 or D11.
Originally posted by tezzajw
So far:
You: Gate D18
Balsamo: Gate D19 or 21 maybe from a North push gate?
Originally posted by LaBTop
I have one question to you again, tezzajw. Why do you use only the numbers, but not the NORTHERN remark?
Originally posted by gidwa
This question may be too basic for most of the commenters here to think they should bother answering, but I would appreciate an answer, if anyone doesn't mind doing so.
This discussion is very lengthy, and the original poster's information is a little technical for me. I am open to possibilities, and certainly do not trust the government. I do not understand, though, where the discussion is going when alternate planes are discussed, or no planes at all.
Why would different planes have crashed into the towers/field/pentagon, what is the purpose? Did the alternate planes also have people on themf? If they did have people on them, why has nobody reported these family members dead? If the people on the real flights, which it is being suggested didn't crash, didn't die, where are they and why hasn't somebody seen them? Again, if no planes actually crashed at all, where are the people that the family members claim are dead?
If researchers want the "sheeple" to stop being "sheeple", then besides putting out your technical data, you should also put out some plain english summaries of what you think you have proven, and why you think it may have went that way. It would be worth your time, I think, since you have already went to so much trouble.
Originally posted by LaBTop
if an FAA inspector had checked that FDR before take-off, he would have alarmed the whole Airport, and Airports country-wide, to immediately stop all departing American Airline flights and keep them grounded, until the problems with their FDR's were found and solved.
One of them :
COUNTER nrs, ALT, ALTrad,
147198.000, 2792, 2790,
147199.000, 2830, 4000,
And from that moment on, the ALTrad value flutters back and forth from 4000 to 2795 nearly the whole length of that file, until it reaches nearly at the end of the file, this counter number, where it changed at last, back to normal values which stay in line with the constantly changing ALT values, which represent the altitudes recorded by the plane's InternalNavigationalSystem / InternalReferenceSystem and also saved in its FlightDataRecorder :
Originally posted by waypastvne
reply to post by Evanvoid
Let me spoil the ending for you. In the end the truthers lose.