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At last, The "Watergate" Of 9/11 :
page: 5share:
reply to post by _BoneZ_
Where's the part of the jet that cut the large, circular hole in the reinforced concrete wall of the C ring light well? It must have been big, because it managed to break through a brick facade and cut through a "forest" of reinforced concrete pillars before encountering the light well wall. There would be something massive enough to explain the hole on the outside of the wall, but there wasn't.
Where's the part of the jet that cut the large, circular hole in the reinforced concrete wall of the C ring light well? It must have been big, because it managed to break through a brick facade and cut through a "forest" of reinforced concrete pillars before encountering the light well wall. There would be something massive enough to explain the hole on the outside of the wall, but there wasn't.
edit on 7-8-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by TigerTracks
When you check the rest of the data from the flight recorder, alignment with the gate does not happen that often. So it looks like that in practice it is not very strict. Or maybe this is just specific to the AA77 data, but I do not have any other data as reference.
When you remove odd movement in the flight path (where the movement is not straight), you end up with a perfect match to gate 26. It looks like drift occurred at those positions. Those positions coincide with the runway holding position markings, which suggests that the plane was not moving when the error occurred.
Anyway, this topic is very specialized, I can only give my layman common sense opinion. If FDR data from other planes does not show similar paths, then something strange is going on indeed.
When you check the rest of the data from the flight recorder, alignment with the gate does not happen that often. So it looks like that in practice it is not very strict. Or maybe this is just specific to the AA77 data, but I do not have any other data as reference.
When you remove odd movement in the flight path (where the movement is not straight), you end up with a perfect match to gate 26. It looks like drift occurred at those positions. Those positions coincide with the runway holding position markings, which suggests that the plane was not moving when the error occurred.
Anyway, this topic is very specialized, I can only give my layman common sense opinion. If FDR data from other planes does not show similar paths, then something strange is going on indeed.
Originally posted by _BoneZ_
I also do not personally believe that a large 757 crashed into the Pentagon. However, there are far too many witnesses that visually saw a plane impact the Pentagon and far too few that saw a "fly-over".
Point taken . . . to a point. I guess where eyewitness testimony conflicts I personally look to other aspects of a story as deciding factors. The eyewitness testimony brought forward by CIT is a major alert to deception by the Bush administration as to the facts of the Pentagon incident. But as you imply, this kind of testimony is not decisive in this question.
And as I stated earlier in this thread, CIT's hostile and unprofessional manner automatically makes them lose credibility points, on top of the fact that many of their "theories" are ridiculous and baseless.
I've been in a lot of the CIT threads and I am quite familiar with Craig as a poster. To be fair to him, he did take a gargantuan amount of personal abuse with an amazing amount of grace, I thought.
He is feisty, to be sure.
Even though I have butted heads with him in a mild sort of way in at least one thread, I still have a tremendous amount of respect for Craig and for CIT. If America had ten people like Craig Ranke, working as a team, George W. Bush would be in the dock at The Hague right now.
To me the biggest problem that CIT has is answering the question, "Where did the plane go?" Given the sort of restrictive flight regime in force that day, that might be a hard thing to do.
The issue of who was in the air, where they were going, who was monitoring and reporting on their movements that day is still very murky. I remember reading in connection with another thread, from what source I am sorry I cannot remember, that there were aircraft taking off from somewhere in New England, heading out of the US, after aircraft were supposed to be grounded.
I'm not so annoyed by rediculous theories. It's rediculous verifications that get to me.
All that being said, if it came to it, I would hide Craig Ranke from the Gestapo in a heartbeat.
edit on 7-8-2011 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by -PLB-
Anyway, this topic is very specialized, I can only give my layman common sense opinion. If FDR data from other planes does not show similar paths, then something strange is going on indeed.
"UA93" data is also showing the same type of offset and then alignment in flight. Neither "AA77" nor "UA93" had this capability. But military aircraft do.
Again, Click
And if you don't trust the above source and references/footnotes, perhaps you might listen to some pilots from pprune.org and other sources?
"If the Present Position is incorrect when the INS is initialized, it will NOT "re-align" itself! It should be shut down and re-initialized with the correct Present Position."
"An error in position input during initial alignment, apart from obvious bias, will give the wrong "G" initial value and induce wrong vertical acceleration (delta between the sensed real one and the erroneous one)"
Since inertial systems accumulate position errors as a function of time, the position information being used by the FMC is slowly accumulating errors. These position errors can be detected by observing the position of the airplane on the HSI map. If an extended ground delay occurs and a significant map error is noticed the IRS should be realigned and present position re-entered [on the ground].
Here's more from American Airlines Captains
"...on cursory examination something is screwy, those things are so accurate in the 75, 76, 73, and FK100, that we always, always put in the exact gate coordinates on each gate at each airport when preparing to go, so that -may- indicate some trickery of some kind...."
"....when pilots align the IRS, the Present Position from the Jeppesen Gate Coordinates chart is input by the FO and it is double checked by the Captain. Pilots especially pay close attention to this procedure on a long flight (such as it was reported IAD-LAX)..... there is no possible way, even if the FO and Captain input the wrong Lat/Long with aligned IRU's, that an American Airlines 757 could align an error/offset in flight for such a large error in such a short time as is depicted in the data. Garbage in = Garbage out...... the Capt and FO would have also noticed such a large error if not at the gate, but during taxi to the runway, and if such a large error could not be corrected prior to departure, they would have had to return to the gate."
All the above sources consolidated and listed here - Click
In other words, if the data were from "AA77", it would have never left the ground (or the gate) with such a large lat/long offset (nor would "UA93"). There is no evidence linking the data to N644AA aka "AA77" and there is overwhelming evidence the data could not have come from N644AA aka "AA77".
reply to post by TigerTracks
So the issue is not the gate number the plane left (as that can not be determined because of drift) but the issue is that the IRS was not aligned. If it really is a strict procedure, which those sources seem to indicate, it is indeed odd, I can't think of a sensible explanation for it.
One thing that is not really clear to me though is how it was determined that AA77 had no GPS on board that could auto align the IRS. Is this confirmed by AA?
So the issue is not the gate number the plane left (as that can not be determined because of drift) but the issue is that the IRS was not aligned. If it really is a strict procedure, which those sources seem to indicate, it is indeed odd, I can't think of a sensible explanation for it.
One thing that is not really clear to me though is how it was determined that AA77 had no GPS on board that could auto align the IRS. Is this confirmed by AA?
Originally posted by -PLB-
reply to post by TigerTracks
So the issue is not the gate number the plane left (as that can not be determined because of drift)
I disagree. When the offset is corrected and lined up to D26, it is clear the aircraft could not have pushed from gate D26.
Such "drift", if that were the case, does not happen in a matter of minutes, or else IRS would be useless and pilots would have to be constantly stopping during taxi and re-aligning their IRS systems. Furthermore, if a pilot did see such a "drift" during taxi, it would have been aligned prior to departure, as explained above, and the Lat/Long would be aligned with the runway, not several hundred feet south in the grass.
.... the IRS was not aligned. If it really is a strict procedure, which those sources seem to indicate, it is indeed odd, I can't think of a sensible explanation for it.
I agree. The only explanation i can think of is that the aircraft was GPS equipped and the pilots werent too concerned with IRS alignment. "AA77" and "UA93" were not GPS equipped.
One thing that is not really clear to me though is how it was determined that AA77 had no GPS on board that could auto align the IRS. Is this confirmed by AA?
You can check the flight strips of the flight plans. Type and equipment will be listed. 757/E is IRS equipped, 757/G would be a 757 equipped with GPS.
N644AA was built in 1991. GPS wasn't considered a primary navigational aid for civilian use until the degraded signal was lifted in 2000. And even then, Carriers didn't retrofit their aircraft due to expense, why would they when they had perfectly good IRS units they been using for years?. Most GPS equipped aircraft flying today are delivered with it installed. Many aircraft still fly as /E.
Also, if the aircraft was GPS equipped, pilots would not be using the Gate Coordinates Chart for input into their IRS as referenced above by American Airlines Captains. But again, it can be confirmed by looking at the flight strips from ATC. I seen them floating around somewhere, don't remember where. Let me know if you find them.
edit on 8-8-2011 by TigerTracks because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by TigerTracks
Originally posted by -PLB-
reply to post by TigerTracks
There are basically two questions that need answers, how accurate is the IRS (required to be) when the plane is on the ground and what position do pilots use as reference coordinates at the gate. We can for certain say that the data is not very accuracy when the plane is on the ground. This can be normal for an IRS, or it can mean that the IRS was malfunctioning, or it can mean that the data has been tampered with. I suspect it is normal for an IRS. As for which coordinates pilots use, only pilots can answer that.
The coordinates the pilots use to input lat/long into the IRS are above your post and the post you replied to. They use the lat/long coordinates at the gate. Pilots cannot depart with an IRS malfunctioning, nor will they depart the gate without the IRS fully aligned to the gate.
Read more here from a conversation with an American Airlines Captain.
Click
lol..Cap't Bob returns! He just can't get enough! Multiple posts with P4T talking-points and nothing but links back to P4T. Registered only 2 days ago, no posts at all other than this thread begin by Labtop, and Cap't Bob went off on Labtop over on his P4T website a few days ago. He must really like this place. His ego certainly won't let him stay away.
Originally posted by trebor451
Originally posted by TigerTracks
Originally posted by -PLB-
reply to post by TigerTracks
There are basically two questions that need answers, how accurate is the IRS (required to be) when the plane is on the ground and what position do pilots use as reference coordinates at the gate. We can for certain say that the data is not very accuracy when the plane is on the ground. This can be normal for an IRS, or it can mean that the IRS was malfunctioning, or it can mean that the data has been tampered with. I suspect it is normal for an IRS. As for which coordinates pilots use, only pilots can answer that.
The coordinates the pilots use to input lat/long into the IRS are above your post and the post you replied to. They use the lat/long coordinates at the gate. Pilots cannot depart with an IRS malfunctioning, nor will they depart the gate without the IRS fully aligned to the gate.
Read more here from a conversation with an American Airlines Captain.
Click
lol..Cap't Bob returns! He just can't get enough! Multiple posts with P4T talking-points and nothing but links back to P4T. Registered only 2 days ago, no posts at all other than this thread begin by Labtop, and Cap't Bob went off on Labtop over on his P4T website a few days ago. He must really like this place. His ego certainly won't let him stay away.
By your claims, LaBTop must be Capt Bob as well with all those links to P4T in his OP... lol
I've read through your posts here trebor. The majority of them attacking "Capt Bob". Do you ever talk about the topic? Or do you just obsess. Well, your posts clearly tell the tale.
I heard he had to block several of your pseudo email addresses due to your harassment, one after another, and you finally stopped creating new email addys in order to harrass after being threatened to report you for cyber stalking. Is that true?
Are you the same William Paisley that washed out of flight school and couldnt make it to the front seat? Never able to get an FAA pilot certificate? While also leaving your fiance at the altar? Quite a classy guy you must be...
Can you provide a quote from Balsamo asserting gate D9 or D11 as claimed by LaBTop in the OP? Seems LaBTop doesn't want to answer that question.
edit on 8-8-2011 by TigerTracks because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by LaBTop
AT LAST, THE "WATERGATE" of 9/11 :
Sir, you should make PDF from whole work you made ASAP, images tend to suddenly dissapear, you know.
I would be very interested in having whole post as pdf for comfortable reading.
edit on 8-8-2011 by potential_problem because: (no reason
given)
Originally posted by TigerTracks
By your claims, LaBTop must be Capt Bob as well with all those links to P4T in his OP... lol
I've read through your posts here trebor. The majority of them attacking "Capt Bob". Do you ever talk about the topic? Or do you just obsess. Well, your posts clearly tell the tale.
I heard he had to block several of your pseudo email addresses due to your harassment, one after another, and threatened to report you for cyber stalking. Is that true?
Are you the same William Paisley that washed out of flight school and couldnt make it to the front seat? Never able to get an FAA pilot certificate? While also leaving your fiance at the altar? Quite a classy guy you must be...
Can you provide a quote from Balsamo asserting gate D9 or D11 as claimed by LaBTop in the OP? Seems LaBTop doesn't want to answer that question.
I was wondering if this was Rob now I have no doubts. Glad to see your back, I missed you. There is no one I enjoy laughing at more you.
Altitude above you.
Runway behind you.
Doctor in a V tail.
Pilots for 911 truth.
edit on 8-8-2011 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by waypastvne
Altitude above you.
Runway behind you.
Doctor in a V tail.
Pilots for 911 truth.edit on 8-8-2011 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)
Can you provide a quote from Balsamo asserting gate D9 or D11 as claimed by LaBTop in the OP? Seems LaBTop doesn't want to answer that question.
According To Rob Balsamo, and even the image LaBTop captured from the P4T article, no where was it stated or implied by Pilots For 911 Truth that the aircraft came from D9 or D11. If Balsamo didn't say it, nor did he show it, LaBTop's original post is an unjustified attack on Balsamo and Pilots For 911 Truth and requires an apology.
Originally posted by TigerTracks
Can you provide a quote from Balsamo asserting gate D9 or D11 as claimed by LaBTop in the OP? Seems LaBTop doesn't want to answer that question.
This is not the question we are interested in. What we want to know is:
Did you sponge off of LabTop and live on a couch in his basement just prior to having your hissy fit Truther fight? Or is this one a break in the tradition?
Altitude above you.
Runway behind you.
Doctor in a V tail.
Pilots for 911 truth.
Originally posted by waypastvne
Originally posted by TigerTracks
Can you provide a quote from Balsamo asserting gate D9 or D11 as claimed by LaBTop in the OP? Seems LaBTop doesn't want to answer that question.
This is not the question we are interested in. What we want to know is:
Did you sponge off of LabTop and live on a couch in his basement just prior to having your hissy fit Truther fight? Or is this one a break in the tradition?
Altitude above you.
Runway behind you.
Doctor in a V tail.
Pilots for 911 truth.
Huh? No, My house is pretty comfortable, been here for years, and I never slept on anyone's couch in anyone's basement.. Been a bit hot out though.
Can you stick to the topic or is it customary to discuss ATS Members living arrangements in threads....? How do you live?
Can you answer my question or not as it pertains to the topic....?
But I think we already have your answer. You cannot provide a quote. Since it is clear Balsamo didn't make the claims asserted by LaBTop in his original post, LaBTop should post an apology to redeem any credibility or remain as someone who is disgruntled for being suspended at the P4T Forum and resorted to deception in an attempt to discredit.
It's amazing that trebor451 (robert spelled backwards - obsessive much?) and waypastvne are able to attack TigerTracks, without even trying to comment
on the OP. waypastvne deliberately sidesteps a question about the OP and then takes the thread off topic by asking about sleeping on a couch???
Seriously???
Mods - what has ATS come to?
LaBTop, I asked you a couple of days ago if you could please link me to a source quote for where Balsamo stated that the alleged push gate was D9 or D11.
Mods - what has ATS come to?
LaBTop, I asked you a couple of days ago if you could please link me to a source quote for where Balsamo stated that the alleged push gate was D9 or D11.
edit on 8-8-2011 by tezzajw because: more
Originally posted by tezzajw
It's amazing that trebor451 (robert spelled backwards - obsessive much?) and waypastvne are able to attack TigerTracks, without even trying to comment on the OP. waypastvne deliberately sidesteps a question about the OP and then takes the thread off topic by asking about sleeping on a couch??? Seriously???
Mods - what has ATS come to?
LaBTop, I asked you a couple of days ago if you could please link me to a source quote for where Balsamo stated that the alleged push gate was D9 or D11.edit on 8-8-2011 by tezzajw because: more
Good points tezzajw.
I also check the ATS T&C.
15). Posting: You will not Post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. You will not solicit personal information from any member. You will not use information gathered from this website to harass, abuse or harm other people.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Looks like that one rule alone has been violated by LaBTop, trebor and waypastevne all in one fell swoop.
I am familiar with all the posts made on this topic at P4T. LaBTop cannot post a source quote because Balsamo never said it. It's hard to believe LaBTop didn't know this given his penchant for long convoluted posts and thorough sourcing. He sourced practically everything in his OP. The only source he left out was his claims that Balsamo stated the aircraft pushed from D9 or D11. This is LaBTop's whole foundation for attacking Pilots For 9/11 Truth and Balsamo repeatedly in his OP, and it's not sourced? Clearly LaBTop knew he was giving false and misleading information in a poor attempt to attack P4T due to his suspension.
The pc term is "flight attendants" not stewardess......
(just my way of saying I read your post...omg...is it detailed.)
nice work.
(just my way of saying I read your post...omg...is it detailed.)
nice work.
Originally posted by waypastvne
Did you sponge off of LabTop and live on a couch in his basement just prior to having your hissy fit Truther fight? Or is this one a break in the tradition?
No, Rob lived in Canada with Tino - posts here as Turbofan.
Tino was even nice enough to let Rob use his account at a couple of other 9/11 sites, and ended up getting himself banned due to Rob's antics. Labtop found out just what I mean about "antics."
And then, IIRC, they had their public falling out right here on ATS cuz Tino couldn't get behind one of Pfffft's "smoking guns". All this, even though Tino STILL backs everything else that Pfffft proclaims. Just shows how everything Pfffft proclaims is pure garbage.
To boil it all down, the only thing that Labtop gets right in his OP is that when you disagree with Rob, you get suspended/banned off his website.
If you still do not understand what Balsamo/TigerTracks ( and -PLB- asking questions and handing over the answers far too fast to ever been able to
plot all the thousands of lat/long datapoints in his posting-times time frame ) did wrong when he overlaid two different pictures with clearly
different dimensions, at least you can see it here in my picture I already posted, but where no one commented on, while it is the 100 % proof that
Balsamo is trying to trick his own membership, and us, the occasional readers from his "experts" forum, in believing in a Northern departure gate,
as he still claims today in his (already slightly "corrected" by means of an additional overlayed STILL WRONG new picture) front page article :
www.pilotsfor911truth.org...
I used Balsamo's own picture with ONLY the distorted 3000+ ft shifted from reality and decoded from that false-FDR, original non-corrected lat/long data points, plotted by Balsamo himself from the UnderTow datastream, in it :
UnderTow's "full", world-first decode ever (it's not full by far, it does not have the earlier flights in it) :
pilotsfor911truth.org...
Open this UnderTow (now proved falsified) FDR datapoints listing in a new browser tab by right clicking this link and clicking "Open in new Tab"
You can find the navigational data easily in that list. Look for lat and long descriptions in the top line. There are two sets in every subframe numbered line, and every subframe numbered line is spaced one second apart from the next one.
This is Balsamo's original picture from his front page article :
Article title : AA77 - Gate position.
pilotsfor911truth.org...
Balsamo's original picture : pilotsfor911truth.org...
Thus, NO overlay from him used in his own stand-alone picture there.
Now follows one simple new picture made by me, together with one simple solution offered months after that by me.
This is how he SHOULD have done it, working in one and the same picture to construct the shift to reality of the false AA77 FDR lat/long data-points :
My exact lat/long offset corrections outcome is shown by me in Balsamo's own picture, leading to the right departure gate, Gate D18. Original Size 816px × 984px.
Especially when you move my correction line 38 meters southwards and 43 meters westwards (I'll explain that later) under my thin blue departure line along the D-Concourse, beginning at the yellow M2 point :
My original picture : files.abovetopsecret.com...
Use CTRL and + repeatedly, to blow up (zoom in) your browser page, and then these pictures will be much clearer to view !
Use your free Windows Paint program, expand/zoom to 200 %, and draw your own thin lines when you still can't bring yourself to believe me.
Using a pair of compasses on a piece of paper where you copied or printed the above Balsamo picture on, will do exactly the same job.
As I also told Balsamo in my first email after he banned me.
Normally I do not bother with website owners who have a grunt against you for whatever reason (never happened to me ever before, btw, seems to me a good indication of civil net etiquette used by me in my, as long as the Internet exists, online behavior), but this time I got really curious what the real reason was behind his banning me, out of the blue.
And his sudden hostile behavior against me. While I explained to him in my post before he banned me, in a very civil manner, that I was not his enemy, and that I posted my screenshot from the Fast (30 seconds) Alignment Procedure advised by Boeing, the constructor of the 9/11 planes, to counter eventual Official Story Followers opponents arguments at forehand.
files.abovetopsecret.com...
These are the other two screenshots I took from the Boeing Manual regarding their 757-200 INS/IRS system, Internal Navigational System / Inertial Reference System :
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
Do you really think that pilots, always in a hurry to not get sacked by their Airline bosses for huge financial losses connected to too many delayed flights in their personal record, would not choose this 30 seconds Fast Alignment Procedure offered by Boeing, instead of the normal 10 minutes at lower latitude, but minimum 17 minutes at higher latitude, American Airlines procedure at the gates?
And yes, Dulles is situated at lat 77°, thus a minimum of 17 minutes is lost when, for whatever reason, the pilots are late.
And as long as the end of the former flight from the day before is not outside an 18 hours time frame, this is allowed by Boeing. And Flight 77 returned every day's evening from LAX as Flight 144, to the same IAD Gate D26 as it also always departed from and thus also arrived at. For many years already, so all ground personnel knew by heart, where Flight 77 was parked at arrival and departure.
So, there are two HUGE discrepancies in that false FDR.
Arrival gate (D15) and departure gate (D18 or D20) are totally different from the normal gate, Gate D26.
That's a huge marker that some one in the Flight 77 FDR-falsification team did want us to find such a reasonable easy marker of tampering with evidence of mass murder.
As depicted by Jan Zelman in his meticulously plotted zoom-in of the lat/long datapoints decoded by Warren Stutt.
Warren's datapoints decode, Farmer's decode, UnderTow's decode and the original decode by the NTSB who released it after years of FOIA pressure, are all different from eachother in a manner of tens to hundred meters, BUT, all their overall taxiing and runway drawing total patterns are all IDENTICAL, meaning that their alt/long positions decodes did differ a bit, but not the overall pattern. They were all shifted a bit different, but the form of the plot is always the same.
Thus, I can safely say that my method is fool proof, while the Balsamo /TigerTrack method shows a fool, a clown in his own words, as he himself so nicely addressed me in his last post on top of page 4 in the "9/11gate,"AA77" FDR numerology" thread at P49/11T American 77 forum.
pilotsfor911truth.org...
SMILE, Balsamo. Learn to take some online punches. And be a man, and admit you were wrong. If not, you are in my books, what I suspect strongly that you really are.
More-
www.pilotsfor911truth.org...
I used Balsamo's own picture with ONLY the distorted 3000+ ft shifted from reality and decoded from that false-FDR, original non-corrected lat/long data points, plotted by Balsamo himself from the UnderTow datastream, in it :
UnderTow's "full", world-first decode ever (it's not full by far, it does not have the earlier flights in it) :
pilotsfor911truth.org...
Open this UnderTow (now proved falsified) FDR datapoints listing in a new browser tab by right clicking this link and clicking "Open in new Tab"
You can find the navigational data easily in that list. Look for lat and long descriptions in the top line. There are two sets in every subframe numbered line, and every subframe numbered line is spaced one second apart from the next one.
This is Balsamo's original picture from his front page article :
Article title : AA77 - Gate position.
pilotsfor911truth.org...
Balsamo's original picture : pilotsfor911truth.org...
Thus, NO overlay from him used in his own stand-alone picture there.
Now follows one simple new picture made by me, together with one simple solution offered months after that by me.
This is how he SHOULD have done it, working in one and the same picture to construct the shift to reality of the false AA77 FDR lat/long data-points :
My exact lat/long offset corrections outcome is shown by me in Balsamo's own picture, leading to the right departure gate, Gate D18. Original Size 816px × 984px.
Especially when you move my correction line 38 meters southwards and 43 meters westwards (I'll explain that later) under my thin blue departure line along the D-Concourse, beginning at the yellow M2 point :
My original picture : files.abovetopsecret.com...
Use CTRL and + repeatedly, to blow up (zoom in) your browser page, and then these pictures will be much clearer to view !
Use your free Windows Paint program, expand/zoom to 200 %, and draw your own thin lines when you still can't bring yourself to believe me.
Using a pair of compasses on a piece of paper where you copied or printed the above Balsamo picture on, will do exactly the same job.
As I also told Balsamo in my first email after he banned me.
Normally I do not bother with website owners who have a grunt against you for whatever reason (never happened to me ever before, btw, seems to me a good indication of civil net etiquette used by me in my, as long as the Internet exists, online behavior), but this time I got really curious what the real reason was behind his banning me, out of the blue.
And his sudden hostile behavior against me. While I explained to him in my post before he banned me, in a very civil manner, that I was not his enemy, and that I posted my screenshot from the Fast (30 seconds) Alignment Procedure advised by Boeing, the constructor of the 9/11 planes, to counter eventual Official Story Followers opponents arguments at forehand.
files.abovetopsecret.com...
These are the other two screenshots I took from the Boeing Manual regarding their 757-200 INS/IRS system, Internal Navigational System / Inertial Reference System :
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
Do you really think that pilots, always in a hurry to not get sacked by their Airline bosses for huge financial losses connected to too many delayed flights in their personal record, would not choose this 30 seconds Fast Alignment Procedure offered by Boeing, instead of the normal 10 minutes at lower latitude, but minimum 17 minutes at higher latitude, American Airlines procedure at the gates?
And yes, Dulles is situated at lat 77°, thus a minimum of 17 minutes is lost when, for whatever reason, the pilots are late.
And as long as the end of the former flight from the day before is not outside an 18 hours time frame, this is allowed by Boeing. And Flight 77 returned every day's evening from LAX as Flight 144, to the same IAD Gate D26 as it also always departed from and thus also arrived at. For many years already, so all ground personnel knew by heart, where Flight 77 was parked at arrival and departure.
So, there are two HUGE discrepancies in that false FDR.
Arrival gate (D15) and departure gate (D18 or D20) are totally different from the normal gate, Gate D26.
That's a huge marker that some one in the Flight 77 FDR-falsification team did want us to find such a reasonable easy marker of tampering with evidence of mass murder.
As depicted by Jan Zelman in his meticulously plotted zoom-in of the lat/long datapoints decoded by Warren Stutt.
Warren's datapoints decode, Farmer's decode, UnderTow's decode and the original decode by the NTSB who released it after years of FOIA pressure, are all different from eachother in a manner of tens to hundred meters, BUT, all their overall taxiing and runway drawing total patterns are all IDENTICAL, meaning that their alt/long positions decodes did differ a bit, but not the overall pattern. They were all shifted a bit different, but the form of the plot is always the same.
Thus, I can safely say that my method is fool proof, while the Balsamo /TigerTrack method shows a fool, a clown in his own words, as he himself so nicely addressed me in his last post on top of page 4 in the "9/11gate,"AA77" FDR numerology" thread at P49/11T American 77 forum.
pilotsfor911truth.org...
SMILE, Balsamo. Learn to take some online punches. And be a man, and admit you were wrong. If not, you are in my books, what I suspect strongly that you really are.
More-
So, I delved somewhat deeper into that subject, and found this post #39 in the "9/11gate" thread by Jan Zelman/tume :
pilotsfor911truth.org...
where he talks about his findings, that the false-FDR plane stood waiting a short distance from the entry point onto Runway 30 at Dulles, when a sudden 38 meters lat/long shift occurred (in that data), and when you aligned the whole departure route again, but now taken into consideration that 38 meter shift to the south, that the data showed a nearly perfect fit with Gate D20 and all the taxi lanes and Runway 30.
Jan just forgot to explain why he thought that it was Gate D20.
Because there was also an INS/IRS shift, suddenly taking place after that 30 seconds Fast Alignment correction procedure, westwards of ca. 43 meters!
Thus, you must try to imagine his light-green line shifted to the left (west), from Gate D18 to Gate D20, and thus also the turning-south point 43 meters to the left b(west), which places the downward (southward) part of the taxi route exactly on that second-from-left side taxi lane in the picture. And thus that turn southwards took place 38 meters more down (south), and 43 meters more left (west) !!!
xmarinx.sweb.cz...
Balsamo, all the following explanations are a counter to your first remarks in this post of you :
pilotsfor911truth.org...
to show you how shallow your analyzing capabilities in fact are, and how shallow and far too fast you come to conclusions, which you then try to use to set all your members on the wrong foot regarding an immense important find by one of your own, Jan Zelman :
You gravely misjudge the brain power of non-pilots like Jan Zelman, who is however an University Graduate in two disciplines, and you are not, you act as if you were an obnoxious former (Air-)bus driver. You also keep trashing Warren Stutt and John Farmer, who gave us the full FOIA released false-FDR decodes, while you were saying that you were not serving "keyboard commando's" and agreed with UnderTow to keep most of the decode for yourselves in first instance. You constantly show to us that you don't have a "beautiful mind".
This is my rebuttal of your too fast conclusions :
It looks to me that red oval by Jan Zelman was a perfect explanation in that data stream, of two pilots who did a 30 seconds Fast Alignment at that spot indicated by Jan's red oval, during the timeframe that lat/long sudden shift took place.
From 08:17:39 to 08:18:53, which is time enough to perform a quick Fast Alignment Procedure, taking no more than 30 seconds.
If you shift all the east-west leading lines in his picture 38 meters down southwards up till the red oval's bottom, and shift all the north-south leading lines 43 meters to the left up till the red oval's bottom, than the towed and then taxiing plane does not hit anymore any parked planes or scrapes the southern walls from the D-Concourse.
The path after the red oval is correct however, of course.!
And Jan, the false-FDR of course shows the uncorrected INS/IRS data up till your red oval, those datapoints were already written into the solid state memory block!
Only us, readers and interpreters of that data, have to correct all the datapoints before that red oval, the Fast Alignment, in all our new pictures depicting the lat/long datapoints. But the false FDR still shows the originally first written points.
During the tow it started its engines thus showing the first lat/long datapoint in its FDR, later offered to the public as the "real" Flight 77 its FDR, but that however, was a falsified one from this Gate D18 or D20 departing plane, probably altered for only the last 10 minutes.
That 38 meters down and 43 meters left corrected taxiing path suddenly shows now a plane exactly following the normal departure procedure leading to the turn south into the second-to the right (from the left side of that picture) taxi lane over the huge concrete taxi/waiting area south of the D-Concourse.
Thus it turns southwards about 43 meters further than where Jan let it turn south in his picture, because the 38 meter vertical shift was to the south.
Which let the plane start it's lat/long registering after it was towed away from its normal place at the passenger tubes, towed out many meters south of its resting spot at Gate D18 or D20, but the next move, its taxiing along the D-Concourse south wall needs to be extended (caused by the Fast Align later) about 43 meter as a horizontal shift to the west!
Observe the horizontal green line in his red oval near Runway 30 down there, that's the length of the westward shift during 30 seconds Fast Alignment.
Then you see the vertical green line in that red oval, that's the southern shift during that Fast Alignment.
Thus, all the lat/long datapoints BEFORE that Fast Alignment took place, need to be corrected 38 meters southwards and 43 meters westwards.
Thus, correct ONLY all the green lines ABOVE that red oval, Jan Zelman drew in his picture.
Jan already showed to us all the southern gates in his picture above, as little red circles, but that line of circles was also about the exact taxi route along the south wall of the D-Concourse.
Jan, you have shown that you are so much cleverer than Balsamo, why do you stick to that snake-pit, where he bullies you, and us into a totally wrong departure gate? And copies your work and gives you a one-liner at the bottom of his front page article as reward.
My man, that was some beautiful analysis, and then suddenly totally wrecked by Balsamo's pitiful non-consistent "calculations".
Think about your position there. Take your time for it.
This 9/11 forum is truly FREE, if you act civil, you can express whatever opinion you have on 9/11. We, your peers (many experienced pro and contra 9/11 conspiracy pilots and aviation personnel write and observe here too, btw! ) will check your data, and when right, you get our admiration. When wrong, you will get corrected, however, in a civil manner.
pilotsfor911truth.org...
where he talks about his findings, that the false-FDR plane stood waiting a short distance from the entry point onto Runway 30 at Dulles, when a sudden 38 meters lat/long shift occurred (in that data), and when you aligned the whole departure route again, but now taken into consideration that 38 meter shift to the south, that the data showed a nearly perfect fit with Gate D20 and all the taxi lanes and Runway 30.
Jan just forgot to explain why he thought that it was Gate D20.
Because there was also an INS/IRS shift, suddenly taking place after that 30 seconds Fast Alignment correction procedure, westwards of ca. 43 meters!
tumetuestumefaisdubien post Mar 2 2011, 06:10 AM Post #39
Group: Valued Member
Posts: 997
Joined: 7-November 07
From: Prague or France
Member No.: 2,452
(rob balsamo @ Mar 1 2011, 01:49 PM) *
The above is claimed to be an exchange between "Ground Control" and "American 77" requesting push off the gate and taxi to runway 30.
There are many problems with the above.
Yeah, there's maybe also the problem I (unwittingly) mystified Mr. Farmer that our FDR plane pushed from the gate at 8:12.
In fact it was most probably at 8:10:46...so at 8:12 it would be a bit late to ask the tower...
EDIT: I've also plotted and subsequently overlayed this:
(IMG:xmarinx.sweb.cz...)
Not to support Mr. Stutt, but to show how almost exactly the pathway pattern fits the pattern of the relatively narrow taxiways, contrary to some of the latest Mr. Farmer's "ideas" about the INS in-flight alignments. And there's I think clearly the push from the southern side of the Concourse D is possible and could be quite logical, but definitely not confirming the gate D26. (and yes, to avoid silly notes, I did exactly adjusted the overlay picture scale to have exactly same dimensions as the original pathway pattern)
The red circle at the bottom is a place of possible adjustment of the INS (as my friend pilot suggested to me as a possibility) where the plane is standing, heading -67.8 westwestnorthwards (which happens to be almost exactly our runway angle) all the time 12:17:39-12:18:53, yet the coordinates "mysteriously" shift >38m southwards during this timespan and if I would exclude this shift, the pathway pattern then would fit the taxiways almost absolutely exactly for the plane departing the Gate D20 ...but I'm not insisting on the idea, because it would also need an assumption the coordinates were shifted after the fact, which I would not much wonder, judging after comparing Under Tow's coordinates with the ones from Mr. Stutt and then yet with the ones made in NTSB ...they're always somehow different, usually hundreds of meters...yet the pattern remains.
Thus, you must try to imagine his light-green line shifted to the left (west), from Gate D18 to Gate D20, and thus also the turning-south point 43 meters to the left b(west), which places the downward (southward) part of the taxi route exactly on that second-from-left side taxi lane in the picture. And thus that turn southwards took place 38 meters more down (south), and 43 meters more left (west) !!!
xmarinx.sweb.cz...
Balsamo, all the following explanations are a counter to your first remarks in this post of you :
pilotsfor911truth.org...
to show you how shallow your analyzing capabilities in fact are, and how shallow and far too fast you come to conclusions, which you then try to use to set all your members on the wrong foot regarding an immense important find by one of your own, Jan Zelman :
Balsamo's Post #40 :
rob balsamo post Mar 2 2011, 06:56 AM Post #40
Group: Admin
Posts: 8,719
Joined: 13-August 06
Member No.: 1
Yes, i'm not surprised "Stutt's" coordinates push from the south side after adjusted for the offset. Read more of Legge/Stutt errors here.
pilotsfor911truth.org...&p=10795490
But even then, you still have the aircraft in the grass on Taxi and thrashing the south wall of Concourse Delta.
Also, (and repeated for perhaps the 5th time), aircraft do not start their engines until after pushback.
How can Warren Stutt claim to have a position at the gate, and lat/long plots during pushback, if the FDR doesnt start to record until engines are started?
Answer, he doesnt.
For the third time, see here.
pilotsfor911truth.org...;#entry10795540
It seems only those with a verified aviation background understand this.
And for perhaps the 4th time, the aircraft should have never left the ground with an IRS more than 1/2 mile in error.
You gravely misjudge the brain power of non-pilots like Jan Zelman, who is however an University Graduate in two disciplines, and you are not, you act as if you were an obnoxious former (Air-)bus driver. You also keep trashing Warren Stutt and John Farmer, who gave us the full FOIA released false-FDR decodes, while you were saying that you were not serving "keyboard commando's" and agreed with UnderTow to keep most of the decode for yourselves in first instance. You constantly show to us that you don't have a "beautiful mind".
This is my rebuttal of your too fast conclusions :
It looks to me that red oval by Jan Zelman was a perfect explanation in that data stream, of two pilots who did a 30 seconds Fast Alignment at that spot indicated by Jan's red oval, during the timeframe that lat/long sudden shift took place.
From 08:17:39 to 08:18:53, which is time enough to perform a quick Fast Alignment Procedure, taking no more than 30 seconds.
If you shift all the east-west leading lines in his picture 38 meters down southwards up till the red oval's bottom, and shift all the north-south leading lines 43 meters to the left up till the red oval's bottom, than the towed and then taxiing plane does not hit anymore any parked planes or scrapes the southern walls from the D-Concourse.
The path after the red oval is correct however, of course.!
And Jan, the false-FDR of course shows the uncorrected INS/IRS data up till your red oval, those datapoints were already written into the solid state memory block!
Only us, readers and interpreters of that data, have to correct all the datapoints before that red oval, the Fast Alignment, in all our new pictures depicting the lat/long datapoints. But the false FDR still shows the originally first written points.
During the tow it started its engines thus showing the first lat/long datapoint in its FDR, later offered to the public as the "real" Flight 77 its FDR, but that however, was a falsified one from this Gate D18 or D20 departing plane, probably altered for only the last 10 minutes.
That 38 meters down and 43 meters left corrected taxiing path suddenly shows now a plane exactly following the normal departure procedure leading to the turn south into the second-to the right (from the left side of that picture) taxi lane over the huge concrete taxi/waiting area south of the D-Concourse.
Thus it turns southwards about 43 meters further than where Jan let it turn south in his picture, because the 38 meter vertical shift was to the south.
Which let the plane start it's lat/long registering after it was towed away from its normal place at the passenger tubes, towed out many meters south of its resting spot at Gate D18 or D20, but the next move, its taxiing along the D-Concourse south wall needs to be extended (caused by the Fast Align later) about 43 meter as a horizontal shift to the west!
Observe the horizontal green line in his red oval near Runway 30 down there, that's the length of the westward shift during 30 seconds Fast Alignment.
Then you see the vertical green line in that red oval, that's the southern shift during that Fast Alignment.
Thus, all the lat/long datapoints BEFORE that Fast Alignment took place, need to be corrected 38 meters southwards and 43 meters westwards.
Thus, correct ONLY all the green lines ABOVE that red oval, Jan Zelman drew in his picture.
Jan already showed to us all the southern gates in his picture above, as little red circles, but that line of circles was also about the exact taxi route along the south wall of the D-Concourse.
Jan, you have shown that you are so much cleverer than Balsamo, why do you stick to that snake-pit, where he bullies you, and us into a totally wrong departure gate? And copies your work and gives you a one-liner at the bottom of his front page article as reward.
My man, that was some beautiful analysis, and then suddenly totally wrecked by Balsamo's pitiful non-consistent "calculations".
Think about your position there. Take your time for it.
This 9/11 forum is truly FREE, if you act civil, you can express whatever opinion you have on 9/11. We, your peers (many experienced pro and contra 9/11 conspiracy pilots and aviation personnel write and observe here too, btw! ) will check your data, and when right, you get our admiration. When wrong, you will get corrected, however, in a civil manner.
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