The Tea Party is anti-democratic and guilty of abuse of power

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

As my earlier post here sas, the TP was funded by elites specifically the ultra-rich Koch brothers. So there is not much difference.

Anyone who believes the TP isn't primarily acting for big business is dillusional

Then again, that's true for the other 2 parties too

The whole "for the people by the people" doesn't hold true anymore, it's now "for corporations, by the people"...happy times.

It's "delusional", and it has nothing to do with corporations or elites, it is for bringing back the values of our Founding Fathers and getting our Liberty back with limited govt. How many times do we have to keep saying it? See you want to believe the liberal rags and not the people in the Tea Party.

edit on 4-8-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

You can't seriously be that naive! You might wanna look up who are donating the most money to figure out how wrong you are

reply to post by MrXYZ


Let's look at who is donating to the Dem's, then shall we? Or is that too much for you to handle? You might be surprised what you find in the Dem's closet!

Top Donors

reply to post by crimvelvet


You are right Crimvelvet, we are very close to in our view of the roles of the economy and government.

What you describe as a market, farmers markets, flea markets, swap meets and such, I would simply describe as a market, or a true market, the term free has nothing to do with the situation.

An important point that I feel you are missing is that what maintains our freedom is our constitutionally created representative government. In countries without sound governments, such as the countries of first world nations, you can have a market, a swap meet or farmers market, or whatever, the differences is that in those countries the local authorities (war lords, controlling families/mafia) what ever you want to call them, will show up and take what ever share they want from those exchanging their goods and services. If you have a business, they will come around and demand protection money.

In third world dictatorships, the people are still free to participate in a market system, but they are not free from the thugs who control their country.

When the Mises institute, and all those free market politicians talk about a free market economy, including Ron Paul, the are talking about eliminating government control of business and banking activity.

What they want is the freedom to commit white collar crime, and the government to stay the hell out of their way.

Here is the important point.

It is the U.S. governments job to defend the rights of the people, not simply against government, but against all criminals, and all who would take away our freedoms. This includes murderers, and con artists.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Let's look at who is donating to the Dem's, then shall we? Or is that too much for you to handle? You might be surprised what you find in the Dem's closet!

Top Donors

So your best excuse is "the Dems do it too"?

I already said that they're all bought. I just added that the people who believe the TP is different are delusional. Even worse, 2 of their leaders (Palin & Bachmann) are proven liars...and they lie more often than most others, including Obama. I'm not even a fan of Obama, but those 2 are demonstrably worse

i cant beleive this thread has 743 posts

someone is abusing something here and it aint the teaparty

reply to post by crimvelvet

Heck I was a member of Greenpeace and Sierra club before I found out who pulls their strings!

Yeah, so was I, and I watched those organizations change, as they were taken over by extremists. The original intentions were in the right place, we should work to be good stewards of the vineyard we are renting. Ole JC looked way into the future on that one.

The powerful have slithered out of responsibility for their actions through the laws passed by politicians who preach free market economics.

Back in the 1970ties, if you called the government about fraud, or environmental violations, or any number of white collar crimes, the government would actually go after the perps, and do something about it.

Under GW, the feds worked to defend the crooks, and punish the victims, because this how GW and Dick Cheney rolled. Yet, you will find people defend GW all the time while calling out for free markets. This is a fine example of how programmed these people have become. Look at what happened in the phony baloney CA energy crisis at the beginning of GW's reign of corruption.

This website is over the top, but I don't have time to search for a better website.

www.jesus-is-savior.com...

They do present the facts.

You must understand this.

If you have to sue a corporations to protect your rights, then you are a sucker being fed to the lions. If you are lucky enough to find a decent lawyers, that lawyer will have to defeat the army of lawyers the big company will throw at you. You have slightly more than zero chance of finding justice. With the way the repubs changed the laws, you may very well loose everything for even trying to defend your property rights. This is not justice.

You should be able to call the fed government to defend your rights. That is what the fed gov is supposed to do, and has done fairly consistently throughout U.S. history.

The answer isn't more regs, the answer is properly written regs, an evenly enforced fair set of rules. When you vote for politicians who support Mises economics, you will never get an evenly enforced fair set of rules, they will always tilt everything in favor of the big corporations. They are communists/oligarchists.

When you elect politicians whose goal is to prevent government from protecting citizens against corporate abuse, then you are electing pol's whose goal is to sabotage legislation every step of the way, and that is what we are getting with these TP pol's.

By the one, don't try and pretend that an evenly enforced fair set of rules can not be set up. As recently as the 1990ties, it has been proven that regulation of business can work, and created a more competitive business environment that leads to greater innovation, and rising wages for all. Claims that this can not be done completely ignore history. It has been done several times.

reply to post by haarvik


At least the democrats are trying to call for some transparency to the campaign donation industry, while repubs completely oppose transparency. Yeah, the same people who buy the repubs work both sides of the system, but they give more money to the repubs. This is a tired ole line of propaganda you are putting out, which only fools a small percent of the people who choose to be fooled.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by haarvik

 

At least the democrats are trying to call for some transparency to the campaign donation industry, while repubs completely oppose transparency. Yeah, the same people who buy the repubs work both sides of the system, but they give more money to the repubs. This is a tired ole line of propaganda you are putting out, which only fools a small percent of the people who choose to be fooled.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

US politics summarized...or "what choices do I have?":

1) Tea Party: Uneducated and/or simply liars (go check out how often Bachmann lied on Politifact)
2) Republicans: Wholly owned subsidiary of corporate America...they only care about one thing, MONEY.
3) Democrats: Bought or just plain weak...would love to play poker against them.

So you'd think they're quite different...yet they have one thing in common: They are all bought!!

In short...politics in the US are currently so screwed up, it would be comical if it weren't so sad at the same time.

The saddest part is that some fools seriously believe "their party" is truly good and looking out for them. Think again...the only entities they're looking out for are called "lobbyists", "Goldman Sachs", "Exxon", and "Halliburton".

And of course there's people who are just plain stupid...like the ones who believe Palin/Bachmann are great, when I'd challenge every single one of them to find me a politician who lies more than those too. Go to Politifact and have a look, those 2 wanna-be hockey moms beat everyone else

reply to post by orangetom1999


You makes some great posts, but Milton Friedman is absolutely wrong when he claims that the world runs on greed.

When the world runs on greed, it does not work well. Third world nations are run on greed, not first world nations, and if you can't see that, then you have had the blinders pulled over your eyes.

Most people, especially the most productive, do not seek material success, they are driven more by the desire to do great things. That is what drove Einstein, and most like him. They were not materialists.

Without law and order, civilization stagnates and dies. The only way to achieve law and order is through good governance.

Why do third world nations fail to succeed?

Do third world nations have market systems? Yes they do.

If a market system is all it takes, then why do 3rd world nations fail to reach 1st world status?

Because their governments are too corrupt to established an evenly enforced fair set of rules that are absolutely necessary for a competitive, and therefore efficient, market system to evolve.

Greed is not good, greed is bad. Greedy people screw everyone they can. Nobody wants to associate with someone who takes advantage of others at every possibility. Greed does not create a healthy environment for a successful society, it creates the kind of environment exemplified by third world nations the world over.

"Individuals pursuing their own self interest" is not greed. In fact, greed works against ones self interest, not in favor of one's own self interest.

MOST IMPORTANTLY The only way individuals are enabled to pursue their own self interest, is with a representative government that protects the rights of the individual.

Without good governance, GREED is what rules, and everybody winds up devoting all of their time to protecting what they have against others, which prevents them from taking the time to pursue their own self interest.

The only way Ford and Einstein were able to do what they did, is because they lived in countries with representative governments that set up a fair set of rules governing the economy, allowing opportunity for all. This is the reason people flock to the U.S. or Europe. With good government, they are most enabled to pursue their own interests, and therefore they work hard. Take away justice, and you take away the pursuit of excellence.

Most third world nations have market based economies, that is not the critical factor for success. Good, or decent government is the most critical factor for success.

That Friedman chooses to ignore this reality is proof that he is ignorant by choice.

He is the institution's institutionalist. He favors the rights of institutions, which includes corporations, over the rights of the individual.

reply to post by MrXYZ

1) Tea Party: Uneducated and/or simply liars (go check out how often Bachmann lied on Politifact)
2) Republicans: Wholly owned subsidiary of corporate America...they only care about one thing, MONEY.
3) Democrats: Bought or just plain weak...would love to play poker against them.

Have to agree with you here.

When given the choice, you should always go with the lessor of two (or three) evils.

This gives the democrats a slight preference, but very slight.

We need a legitimate third party, the TP is nothing but a bunch of posers.

reply to post by poet1b


For being such a group of uneducated posers they have been able to affect more than any other 3rd party group has. They are more preferable than voting for 2 parties who have done absolutely nothing except to ensure they get paid more the next time they are rubber stamped back into office.

We need to cut more spending, and fix the tax mess....

Calling the Tea Party names id typical of people who are part of the problem and who enjoy the current status quo.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I am not calling the TP a name, I am describing them exactly as they are.

They are not a third party, they are republicans, pursuing current republican policies, pretending to be a third party.

Their whole goal is to try and disconnect themselves from the train wreck that is the current U.S. economy, created by the policies that the Tea Party still supports.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

1) Tea Party: Uneducated and/or simply liars (go check out how often Bachmann lied on Politifact)
2) Republicans: Wholly owned subsidiary of corporate America...they only care about one thing, MONEY.
3) Democrats: Bought or just plain weak...would love to play poker against them.

Have to agree with you here.

When given the choice, you should always go with the lessor of two (or three) evils.

This gives the democrats a slight preference, but very slight.

We need a legitimate third party, the TP is nothing but a bunch of posers.

People need to get this whole "I have to vote for XYZ party" out of their minds and start THINKING again. Every time an important subject comes up, look at the FACTS, do your RESEARCH.

Sadly, now most people just buy into whatever their favorite corporate-sponsort opinionated talkshow host or politician tells them. People are too lazy to use their brains...

To give you an example:

If you look at the figures, you realize that the budget deficit will NEVER be lowered just through spending cuts. They just made a few cuts now, and it almost resulted in the FAA not having enough air controllers to make planes' landings and takeoff's safe. And given the total size of the deficit, they didn't even cut that much. Now think about what other issues might pop up if you cut other random stuff without thinking about the consequences.

Or there's people who truly believe that social security is causing the deficit, when in reality, it has a $2.6 TRILLION surplus that allows it to be self funding until at least 2035. What happened is that they took the money YOU paid into social security to fund ridiculously expensive wars and of course tax breaks for the top 1% and giant corporations like Exxon. The Bush tax breaks are the largest single-policy contributor to the deficit, look it up! Yes, even more costly than the wars. And before you say they're "stimulating the economy in return", look at where the highest growth rates are right now...ASIA. So where do you think they'll invest that money?

In short, instead of just voting for a party, they should look at the facts instead and then vote for whoever is the closest to it.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by poet1b

 

For being such a group of uneducated posers they have been able to affect more than any other 3rd party group has. They are more preferable than voting for 2 parties who have done absolutely nothing except to ensure they get paid more the next time they are rubber stamped back into office.

We need to cut more spending, and fix the tax mess....

Calling the Tea Party names id typical of people who are part of the problem and who enjoy the current status quo.

Just because the other 2 options suck doesn't mean you automatically have to vote for the third option that's just as bad.

Tell me, who in the TP is good in your opinion?

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Tell me, who in the TP is good in your opinion?

And settleing is not good either. As far as your question any person who is not part of the Republican or Democratic party are leaps and bounds better.

Rand Paul comes to mind.....

Jim Demint...

Aside from a few issues Michele Bachman as well...

Before you or anyone else throws some stones at the names, keep in mind the REpublican and Democratic parties have their share of isses as well. To single out the Tea PArty while ignoring those people in their own ranks tells me they have issues because the group is seperate from a main stream party.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Tell me, who in the TP is good in your opinion?

And settleing is not good either. As far as your question any person who is not part of the Republican or Democratic party are leaps and bounds better.

Can any of you say anything without contradicting yourselves? You just said anyone that is not a Repbublican or a Democrat and then you list 3 people you like

Rand Paul comes to mind.....

Jim Demint...

Aside from a few issues Michele Bachman as well...

WHO ARE ALL REPUBLICANS.

reply to post by Kitilani


and yet everyone bitches about the Tea party as a seperate entity.... go figure....

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by poet1b

 

For being such a group of uneducated posers they have been able to affect more than any other 3rd party group has.

Now it is a 3rd party? Then why are your favorite baggers still listed as Republicans if they are part of a 3rd party?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Kitilani

 

and yet everyone bitches about the Tea party as a seperate entity.... go figure....

I think you misunderstand the specificity inherent in pointing out the baggers vs. the ones that refuse to adhere to such labels.

But you failed to address the point.

Can you explain to me why you would even pretend to claim you have the same disdain for Reps and Dems just before you list 3 Reps you think are just great? Obviously you like one party over the other but in an attempt to seem different you claim you do not, then list the ones you do. Explain that to me.

reply to post by Kitilani


Going for padding the post count? Good lord...

As far as your logic goes...

There are RINO's and Blue Dogs....