The Tea Party is anti-democratic and guilty of abuse of power

Originally posted by nenothtu
You seem to misunderstand. I'm not getting into a class war with "the rich". I don't care about them enough to engage. They've got nothing I want. All my "stuff" is already mine.

I've got my own to look after, and I care nary a bit what they do with theirs. Every thing I need, I already have. The rest is just icing, and I can take it or leave it. If the rich want to play hardball, I'm not game. They can eat their damned gold for all I care.

You don't have to fight but the war has been on for a long time...

They already engaged us, and our children, and our children's children.

What is need?

I guess we could "live" in a toxic environment as poisoned slaves...but I that isn't the life I want for my children.

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by nenothtu
Apparently not, since you appear to be willfully failing to comprehend what the "Tea Party" is in favor of the common agenda.

Failing to comprehend? I can name them for you. All Republicans. What are you smoking?

Insults will get you everywhere, eh? Seems to be the going thin from over there.

Bipartisan cooperation is great, isn't it? Seems to be working wonders against the Tea Party!

Keep saying it like there is a difference between the "tea party" and Republicans.

Keep saying it like there isn't a difference, and maybe one day soon your agenda and that of the GOP neocons will come to fruition, and they'll all be subsumed.

Too bad you still cannot explain what that difference is in real terms with real people with real voting records and real policy issues.

The policy differences have already been explained ad nauseum. Not my problem if you ignore the explanations in favor of pursuing the same agenda as the neocons have regarding the Tea party folks.

You assume that what you wrote answered my question because you seem quite used to responding with rather empty talking points and hoping people will just move along. I actually want answers to my questions.

Your questions are stacked and loaded to retrieve a pre-determined answer, rather than out of any desire to get at the underlying facts of the matter. You, in common with the GOP neocons, desperately WANT the Tea Party to just be "Republicans" according to the currently accepted definition, and so they shall be - or else you simply won't hear the answer.

Otherwise, you;d already have it.

Since there is no "TP" beside a candidate's name on the ballot, the Tea Party simply can't exist, right? Therefore they MUST be Republicans - at least that's the way you structure your questions in order to elicit the response you want.

You're right - the "tea party" doesn't exist as a separately recognized party. Once upon a time, the Republican Party didn't exist as a separate entity, either, and once upon a time before that, the Democrat party didn't exist as a separate party, either.

All things begin, and few spring forth fully formed.

I bet you think that didn't answer any of your questions, either, don't you? That's because it isn't the answer you WANT to hear, any more than the others were.

I'm old enough to recall what the Republican Party was before the neocon takeover of it. From my perspective, therefore, not even Republicans are Republicans. there's more to life than labels. From my perspective, just about any current Republican you can point to is a RINO, and just slapping a Republican label on something doesn't make it so.

Which is, of course, why I'll never vote for a Republican again. They've had their day in the sun, and squandered it, same as the Democrats have.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by nenothtu
You seem to misunderstand. I'm not getting into a class war with "the rich". I don't care about them enough to engage. They've got nothing I want. All my "stuff" is already mine.

I've got my own to look after, and I care nary a bit what they do with theirs. Every thing I need, I already have. The rest is just icing, and I can take it or leave it. If the rich want to play hardball, I'm not game. They can eat their damned gold for all I care.

You don't have to fight but the war has been on for a long time...

I'm content to let you fight it. I've got no dog in that war, and my war days are over. I'd really have to care what they have first before I wanted it bad enough to try to take it, I suppose.

They already engaged us, and our children, and our children's children.

I hate that for you. They've not engaged me, nor so far my kids, either. I guess it could happen. I'll handle it then if it does.

What is need?

That would be food, water, and shelter. parts of Maslowe's Hierarchy are even just wants.

I guess we could "live" in a toxic environment as poisoned slaves...but I that isn't the life I want for my children.

Me either, which is why I don't choose to raise my kids in such a place. Why would anyone put up with that when the alternatives are so much better?

Originally posted by nenothtu

I guess we could "live" in a toxic environment as poisoned slaves...but I that isn't the life I want for my children.

Me either, which is why I don't choose to raise my kids in such a place. Why would anyone put up with that when the alternatives are so much better?

The problem is these issues effect the entire planet.

The air, the water, and the land.

Upper Ringwood residents' environmental battle showcased in HBO documentary
www.northjersey.com...

This is one example of what is happening all over our world.

Corporations control the regulators. The people get poisoned. The richer get richer.

People suffer and others benefit from this suffering.

reply to post by Alxandro






I think your commercials are funny as hell, but the tea party is completely and totally for the status quo, put into power by the status quo, for the purpose of the status quo.


If they were to support a balanced approach like increases on taxes on the super rich, and major cutting of pork barrel spending, then theymight have a claim to being outsiders, but otherwise, they are totally insiders.

Look at the deal they agreed to, more spending than Obama supported.

Your tea party people approved a budget that had less spending cuts than Obama had wanted and originally backed.

You are completely tricked by the sleight of hand. Don't listen to what they say, watch what they actually do.

Looks like congress hit an all time low in approval ratings.

www.cbsnews.com...

But Republicans fare worse: Seventy-two percent of Americans disapprove of their performance during the debt ceiling debate, while just 21 percent approve.

And Republicans get most of the blame for the standoff. Forty-seven percent blame Republicans in Congress, while 29 percent blame President Obama and congressional Democrats; 20 percent say both are to blame.

A majority of Americans - 52 percent - says Republicans in Congress compromised too little in the debate. Fewer - 34 percent - say Democrats, including President Obama, compromised too little. Republicans were more likely to think members of their party compromised too little (34 percent) than to say they compromised too much (26 percent).

By contrast, Democrats were more likely to think members of their party compromised too much (41 percent) rather than too little (20 percent). Overall, 26 percent say Democrats compromised too much in the negotiations; just 15 percent say the same of Republicans'
...
Americans see Mr. Obama more positively than members of Congress when it comes to handling the debt ceiling debate, though Americans are split. Forty-six percent approve of his handling of the situation, while 47 percent disapprove. Forty-nine percent say he showed strong leadership in the debate, while 48 percent say he did not.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by nenothtu

I guess we could "live" in a toxic environment as poisoned slaves...but I that isn't the life I want for my children.

Me either, which is why I don't choose to raise my kids in such a place. Why would anyone put up with that when the alternatives are so much better?

The problem is these issues effect the entire planet.

The air, the water, and the land.

I'd imagine I and my offspring and their offspring will be long gone before it gets around to my part of the planet. Nothing there they want, and it's too far to haul waste - toxic or otherwise - over the roads they'd have to go.

Upper Ringwood residents' environmental battle showcased in HBO documentary
www.northjersey.com...

This is one example of what is happening all over our world.

I'll have to scope that out. It will probably be educational, since I've always thought that all of New Jersey was already a toxic waste dump. I've never had an urge to go there on account of that.

Corporations control the regulators. The people get poisoned. The richer get richer.

.
As I said before, I can't imagine why folks put up with that sort of thing.

People suffer and others benefit from this suffering.

That seems to be the way of the world, whether it's the AGW scam going after their pocket book to enrich Al Gore and Co., for nothing, or oil speculators playing with prices to make an extra buck out of thin air on a promise of future oil prices that folks will pay down the road. Here's an idea: don't do business with 'em, and starve 'em out - or at the very least don't finance your own demise if it's that close to you.

I don't believe it would be out of line to shoot at someone that was trying to poison you. At the very least, perhaps consider not eating the poison.

Originally posted by poet1b

Look at the deal they agreed to, more spending than Obama supported.

Your tea party people approved a budget that had less spending cuts than Obama had wanted and originally backed.

You are completely tricked by the sleight of hand. Don't listen to what they say, watch what they actually do.

Looks like congress hit an all time low in approval ratings.

You know, I don't think ANYONE, other than the politicians themselves and their supporting talking heads, believes that they didn't entirely screw the pooch with the budget deal - and that include everyone on all sides of that fiasco. I've not talked to a single person around here so far since then, Democrat OR Republican, who intends to vote for the incumbents next vote-around. I know I'll be actively campaigning against all of them. after all, if they can't seem to hear what their constituents are screaming at them, what good are they?

Originally posted by inforeal
You see I am not a flaming liberal. . . .I have many conservative views: I believe in the death penalty, free guns, crime prevention, I am for the legalization of drugs( ala Ron Paul) the elimination of all financial laws like reporting a 10, 000 bank transaction.

I am a libertarian liberal progressive conservative.

You and I would get along well! And I support the Tea Party. The OP watches too much Rachel Maddow, methinks. The individual > the collective.

Originally posted by Jezus

Upper Ringwood residents' environmental battle showcased in HBO documentary
www.northjersey.com...

I read the article. 40 years ago would have been 1971, a time when several tribes were taking up arms. I can't for the life of me figure out why these people allowed their land to be a dump site, with that in mind, and have to wonder what the rest of the story is.

It doesn't really go into too much detail. Is this on a res, and if not, whose land was it dumped on, that they would allow it? I've never heard of the Ramapoughs, but I know that several small tribes in eastern Virginia, at least one in eastern North Carolina, and some out west successfully defended their lands from interlopers during that general time period, and have to wonder why that didn't happen here.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Alxandro

 

I think your commercials are funny as hell, but the tea party is completely and totally for the status quo, put into power by the status quo, for the purpose of the status quo.

I read this and just shake my head and laugh. You people have no idea what "Tea Party" actually means. You're told the Tea Party is funded by the Koch brothers or this or that, but it's not. It's just the woman next to you at the theater sick and tired of paying taxes she knows are going to be pissed away on useless govt programs like "high speed rail!" or funneled off into some Union PAC or some bridge to nowhere.

The Tea Party is simply people that have had enough of the government pissing away OUR money.

Apparently that makes us racist terrorists or something, the whole believing in adhering to the Constitution. Stop watching MSNBC and get your news from someone other than John Stewart.

I literally was watching Rick Santelli on that day in Feb 2009 on CNBC (irony). It was an unscripted moment,and it was the "shot heard around the world." He'd better get credit in the history books, because we all heard it. We all went out and told our friends and that's what got it started. A true grass roots movement, and if you believe otherwise, well, all I can do is nod, smile, and know that we've won already.

And yes I'm anti-democratic and pro-republic. Don't like it? Move to a democratic country and hope you're not on the short end of the stick.

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

DUH!
Think of it his way, for starters, it gets rid of the career politicians.
For that reason alone they should be given a chance.

As far as the thread title is concerned, how can the Tea Party be abusing power if they've never been in power to begin with?

Get rid of career politicians...HOW??? Bachmann's a career politician, so is Palin (remember, she got a superapac)...

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Get rid of career politicians...HOW???

Three words:

STRICT TERM LIMITS

applied liberally to everything east of the Potomac River.

The population of DC should be in constant flux, with a completely different population every seven years from the population that was there 7 years previous.

No "do overs". They do their term, then go the hell home and get a real job.

Unless, of course, they are caught consorting with lobbyists. In that case, they should go directly to jail, do not pass "GO", do not collect 200 dollars. Life sentence. It's their constituency that they are selling out, the public trust they are violating, hence the punishment should be harsh, and fit the crime.

reply to post by tangonine




You should have bothered to read the rest of the post, because this point I made applies directly to you.

You are completely tricked by the sleight of hand. Don't listen to what they say, watch what they actually do.

The TPers were the hold outs stopping a budget from being passed because they couldn't dictate terms, even though no one elected them king.

What did they TPers finally agree to?

A budget with less spending cuts than Obama originally supported.

You would have to be a complete and total sap not to realize that the TPers are nothing but more scam artists at this point, and yes, they were financed by the Koch Brothers, so why do you want to pretend different.

Do you think people should have to pay their debts?

The U.S. deficits were created by programs where the money went primarily to the super rich, .001 percent, one a 100,000, the people who are actually rich. If you bothered to do some research, you would know this to be true. Therefore the super rich should pay back the borrowed money.

The people during the time of the Great depression were smart enough to see that, why is if that people aren't smart enough to realize this today? My hunch, too many brain washed by right wing radio media.

so I will repeat.

Forget what they say they believe in or what they say they will do, and watch and see what they actually do.

The so called TPers, are nothing but dyed in the wool, loyal to the king, republicans. These are the same people who brought you two Bush presidencies. Why do you continue to support them?

Originally posted by MrXYZ
And of course there's people who are just plain stupid...like the ones who believe Palin/Bachmann are great, when I'd challenge every single one of them to find me a politician who lies more than those too. Go to Politifact and have a look, those 2 wanna-be hockey moms beat everyone else

The Sara Palin interview disaster and Sarah Palin Look-Alike Stripper Contest

Originally posted by poet1b
Because their governments are too corrupt to established an evenly enforced fair set of rules that are absolutely necessary for a competitive, and therefore efficient, market system to evolve.

Governments, money and bank system, military, and other systems were reportedly controlled by Reptilians, and Zulu Shaman Credo Mutwa claim that African politicians were hypnotized by Reptilians. So yes, Reptilians reportedly "hypnotized" politicians. Reptilian control

When President Bush used the Gulf War 1 in 1991 to announce The New World Order, most people did not really know what he was talking about. Unity? Peace? Not a bad thing. But 'good will toward men' is not what he was talking about. His cunning grin, sleight of speech, and the usual political jargon and games played at the public's expense was going to be nothing more than the demise of the people he was claiming to bring peace to in this New World Order.

The New World Order is in itself a vast conspiracy of old bloodline families. The wealthy, the famous, the corporate elite, the United Nations, and the Secret Societies (watch this speech about Secret Societies by John F. Kennedy). Broken up into two factions better known as the Rothschild and the Rockefeller factions, it consists of double agents. Members switching factions, lies, betrayal, murder and general mayhem are the status quo among these who fight to gain control of the once secret hidden agenda to unite the world under a one global government to be ruled by one man. The winner gets all. The various countries of the world have agreed upon the plan, but no one seems to agree as to whom gets to rule it.

Watching it all from their aircraft and bases, infiltrations of government jobs, appointments, cabinets, Congress, the Pentagon, and even the White House, have been the subtle, yet consistent presence of aliens in our midst.

They are everywhere. And they are watching. From sabotaging missiles as they sit in silos to taking out a satellite or a rover here and there, they are eavesdropping on military bases, hanging out outside The White House, and even your house and mine. They are in the sky; they are on the ground, and they are infiltrating society as hybrids. The aliens aren't coming. They are here.
There are many, many different races of these fallen angels. There were separate planets and nations of them before the fall. After the fall, multitudes were imprisoned inside the hollow cavities of their respective planets, while others were allowed to roam free. These are the ones we are dealing with today.

While factions of alien groups have been busy with breeding programs, others have been busy infiltrating our governments and secret societies. The Reptilians are the most notorious and well known among the bloodline families, who, after all, have their bloodlines linked directly to them

These bloodline families are so protective of their lines that they even insist on intermarriage only simply because through their DNA, they can activate it to become hosts of Reptilians. Through this specific DNA, secret rituals, and blood drinking, those with this DNA can then invite and host a reptilian to possess them. This allows for shape-shifting. It also gives the Reptilians control of human bodies to work out of, from, and through. Human one minute, a Reptilian the next. A tall, scaled, lizard-type being. Think it's too far fetched to be true? I bet you've heard of werewolves. It's the same type of shape-shifting, only by lizards. And yes, it happens.

Some of these Reptilian-Human shape-shifters can be caught in between shifts; some turn green; some peoples face start to contort for no known reason, and you think you are seeing things. Most notable features of these shape-shifters are their beady snake eyes, or their long jaw bones, big noses and small eyes. Some have that wide-awake look, like their eyes are going to pop out of their heads.

Once you know what to look for even watching a state of the union address from the capital can be amusing. When I see the beady eyed ones, I half expect forked tongues to start spewing out of their mouths. Sometimes you will just see peoples grey hair start to look green for no apparent reason. Or they look like they are ready to jump out of their seats, all big-eyed like they have invisible toothpicks holding them open.

Greed is not good, greed is bad. Greedy people screw everyone they can. Nobody wants to associate with someone who takes advantage of others at every possibility. Greed does not create a healthy environment for a successful society, it creates the kind of environment exemplified by third world nations the world over.

Manipulation of money (by David Icke)

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by nenothtu

I guess we could "live" in a toxic environment as poisoned slaves...but I that isn't the life I want for my children.

Me either, which is why I don't choose to raise my kids in such a place. Why would anyone put up with that when the alternatives are so much better?

The problem is these issues effect the entire planet.

The air, the water, and the land.

I'd imagine I and my offspring and their offspring will be long gone before it gets around to my part of the planet.

I appreciate your optimism but if you live on Earth; you are being affected by the pollution of corporations.

"That we have brought a new level of violence to the Earth is clear. We have multiplied extinction rates many times over. The best estimates now show that the Earth loses a species every twenty minutes. We are soaking all life forms with poisons, changing rivers into lethal sewage, and hurling millions of tons of noxious gases into the respiratory system of the Earth. As scientific as we claim to be, we have yet to realize that babies do not come from storks. The simplest, most empirical fact is that babies of every species are created out of soil, air, rain, food, and rivers. If we change all of these into poison, we must accept the fact that we change our unborn into poison as well. What materials will be used for their arms but the minerals of the poisoned continents? Of what stuff will their eyes be fashioned but the water of our lethal rivers? What will those wet fleshy brains be made of but noxious gases and acid rain?"

- The Universe is a Green Dragon

reply to post by Jezus


That may be the most pessimistic, fear-filled, over the top thing I've ever read, and that's saying something. I ran right out side to see where all these toxins were, couldn't see a thing but blue skies and the bottom of the creek through the water. Not even any dust on the leaves, since we've had some recent rain.

Should I have taken a geiger counter or something? I've got a dosimeter, but it may be faulty, since it reads zilch.

No sludge, no smog, no two-headed frogs.

Seriously, if it worries you to that extent, I recommend leaving the urban areas. Those are the only places I've encountered anything even approaching what you describe there. Let the rich folks wallow in their own messes.

Originally posted by nenothtu
That may be the most pessimistic, fear-filled, over the top thing I've ever read, and that's saying something.

I'm not afraid, I believe people are waking up to these facts and we can stop our Earth from being poisoned.

Eventually I think the global environment might recover.

Originally posted by nenothtu
I ran right out side to see where all these toxins were, couldn't see a thing but blue skies and the bottom of the creek through the water.

Upper Ringwood residents' environmental battle showcased in HBO documentary
www.northjersey.com...

You should watch this documentary. One of the most toxic places in the world, looks beautiful.

Originally posted by nenothtu
Seriously, if it worries you to that extent, I recommend leaving the urban areas. Those are the only places I've encountered anything even approaching what you describe there. Let the rich folks wallow in their own messes.

I don't worry, I take action.

Rural areas are sometimes good place to escape the superficial pollution but our ecosystems are connected.

It is all connected...

"The simplest, most empirical fact is that babies of every species are created out of soil, air, rain, food, and rivers. If we change all of these into poison, we must accept the fact that we change our unborn into poison as well. What materials will be used for their arms but the minerals of the poisoned continents? Of what stuff will their eyes be fashioned but the water of our lethal rivers? What will those wet fleshy brains be made of but noxious gases and acid rain?"

- The Universe is a Green Dragon

Good chance that America will resemble former Soviet Union

This whole line of argument is ridiculous. The "Tea Party" Republicans were elected on the basis of promises made, and have done their best to adhere to those promises, unlike the more "mainstream" politicians...political whores from both parties who have no principles and who would happily destroy this country if it would benefit them. What about lunatics like Nancy Pelosi who claimed to be trying to "save the planet as we know it". What planet is that? Trafalmadore?

Say what you will about the "Tea Party", but they have the strength and will to prevail, and I personally believe that they shall, because they have the strength of their convictions versus the spinelessness of their enemies.