Tea Party the cause of debt default.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Crapspackle

 

Well, you're wrong. On all counts. But that's okay, puddin. We're all here to learn.

I have provided plenty of sources proving I am exactly right. If you are trying to say what happened in 1933 is the same a if we default on our debt next week then you have no clue what you are talking about. Just read the links I provided. You have not responded to any of them and I do not believe you even looked at them.

reply to post by Crapspackle


Ooooh. You gave me one mans opinion (John Carney) and I'm supposed to cede?

Try again, kitten.

OK here it is, plain and simple.

The tea party is about no new taxes to accommodate a huge spending spree. Not part of the republican party at all.. if they were, they wouldn't have voted against an incumbent republican ( which happened more often than not )

@ Sevensheeps: When you say your dutch, your saying your country is one of the founding members of the EU? yeah, that looks like its working out so well, we may be the united states of debt, but we have more power than you to do something about it.

@mojoarian We feed the world, and protect it, even though we shouldn't have to. the rest of the world with their "United" military, cant even handle Libya.

Originally posted by Crapspackle

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
It is used to make people think you either have to take more debt on or default.

None of this has anything to do with taking on more debt. The debt ceiling is about debt we already have. Raising it only allows us to pay that debt, not incur more.

That is patently false. The talk about raising the debt ceiling (in which I find horribly irresponsible not only now, but any other time Congress has done so) is only saying "Instead of having a $10,000 credit limit, we are going to give ourselves a $20,000 limit."

My assertion is that the options perpetrated by not only Congress; but the president and the media talking heads is that there are two choices: Either "default" (which isn't true!) or raise the debt limit.

Why are people opposed at trimming the government? There is enough waste and overlap that would cut the spending considerably. But they need to protect their own. Its a cash cow that has no farmer to even reap the benefits.

The Tea Party may be blamed, but this isn't even the original Tea Party. This is the Palin/Fox News co-opted Tea Party, not the original one begun by Ron Paul supporters under Bush.

For all the drama and fear mongering, the debt ceiling was just raised in 2006 under Bush, and guess what, the same people who are in favor of it now, all voted against it then.

Thats right, Obama as Senator voted against raising the debt ceiling and every Republican, with the exception of 3, voted in favor of it. Politics as usual for the 2-headed, 1-party system.

www.govtrack.us...

The debt ceiling does not have to be raised, nor does there need to be a "default". The debt addicts in Washington, DC simply need to cut spending, but they refuse to do it.

No one is willing to cut the titanic domestic programs nor are they willing to downsize the enormous global military empire. Instead, the American citizens/victims will suffer in the form of inflation and higher taxes resulting in a near worthless currency, which has already lost 95% of its buying power since the creation of the "Federal Reserve".

reply to post by Stargate2012

Well Harry Reid in his press statement just said "We are headed for economic disaster"

Well good old Harry ought to know since he and his buddies have been diligently working towards an "economic disaster" for decades.

Can't have a "Socialist" world government without first destroying the USA and individualism/capitalism. That is why the banker owned news media is always harping on the "Evils of capitalism." SERFS and SLAVES are not allowed to own property, only our Masters can.

reply to post by robyn

It's the Demopublicans fault.

---------------or---------------------

It's the Republicrats fault.

"Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss" -- The Who

Yeah,

So now they found someone NEW to blame, CONCERNED CITIZENS who want the mess cleaned-up.

The outcomes are always the same "punish the innocent and reward the guilty..”

Scott Adams in his Dilbert Comics nails it!

reply to post by Crapspackle

None of this has anything to do with taking on more debt. The debt ceiling is about debt we already have. Raising it only allows us to pay that debt, not incur more.

So we are supposed to use a NEW CREDIT CARD to pay off the OLD CREDIT CARD thereby raising the TOTAL amount owed???

Are you a CONGRESSMEN???

I can not think of any other Adult in the world who hasn't figured out that DOES NOT WORK. And that boyo is why the Tea Party is getting blamed. They showed the "Emperor has no clothes" and the money magicians in Congress are ticked.

I think you had better go back and take Logic 101.

The Tea Party isn't about destroying us. It has a rooted belief in the Constitution and what it stands for as written. Not how it has been interpreted. ALL politicians we have now except for a few don't want or need the Constitution. It gets in the way of politics. Back before a/c and central heat they didn't spend more than a few months in DC. We have enough money for the next year to pay everything at 2004 levels and some left over if nothing is done. We CANNOT keep spending and fooling ourselves that we can pay for it tomorrow. I like the concept of where in the Constitution does it call for a spending bill? Justify it then bring it to a vote. I have never used anything from the govt that wasn't paid for by my contributions in taxes period. We don't need all of these social programs, I'm 50 and I know that there is no way I will get anything from the govt upon my retirement. That is why you save, yeah it sucks to do that don't it? In this age of I want it now mentality saving is an old way of thinking. Friends help out friends, family helps out family. I am a true believer in leave me alone and I will make it in life. There are just two many spoiled bratty 20 somethings facebooking, tweeting, social networking freaks that can't even take of themselves getting involved in other peoples business. What goes around comes around and Karma is a bitch! STOP THE MADNESS I am trying to enjoy life! LOL

Originally posted by Crapspackle

Originally posted by beezzer
Nope. Because that won't determine the issue. Whether you agree to what a default is or not, similar issues have occured in the past.

And we survived.

Ran out already?

Now just do like a big boy and admit you were wrong. Otherwise, I am still waiting for any proof the US ever defaulted before like you claimed. Either we have or you are wrong. Which is it?

Oh, The USA has defaulted alright. I remember it happening too it was August of 1971. TPTB just hid it by renaming it and shuffling the shells in the game as usual.

A good illustration of the magic mirrors is this article: Fiat Money History in the US, I quote a bit at the end of the post.

When the International bankers get tired of the shell game because they finished sucking up all the wealth in the USA (they already sucked up all the gold.) Then they will finally crash the entire system and take over control of the government using a SAP.

Structural Adjustment Policies, SAPs, are economic policies which countries must follow in order to qualify for new World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) loans and help them make debt repayments on the older debts owed to commercial banks, governments and the World Bank....

Under SAPs the socialists can kiss good buy ALL the social welfare programs. (I really wish they would get that one tiny fact through their thick skulls) SAPs often result in deep cuts in programmes like education, health and social care, and the removal of subsidies designed to control the price of basics such as food and milk.... By devaluing the currency and simultaneously removing price controls, the immediate effect of a SAP is generally to hike prices up three or four times, increasing poverty to such an extent that riots are a frequent result.

Indications are that they are planning to crash the system soon. Why do I say that? Because the Bernanke has ALREADY more than doubled the US money supply and is talking of printing even more worthless us dollars (QE 3) The ONLY thing propping up the dollar is its status as reserve world currency. Other countries are already deserting the US dollar BTW.

Russia, China and others are calling for a different world reserve currency. OPEC oil countries are moving to the Euro instead of the US dollar, that is the real reason for the heating up of the middle east. The Real But Unspoken Reasons For The Iraq War



I very strongly suggest you read: HYPERINFLATION

ECONOMIC 101 - FIAT MONEY effects:

...In a fiat monetary system, there is no restrain on the amount of money that can be created. This allows unlimited credit creation. Initially, a rapid growth in the availability of credit is often mistaken for economic growth, as spending and business profits grow and frequently there is a rapid growth in equity prices. In the long run, however, the economy tends to suffer much more by the following contraction than it gained from the expansion in credit. This expansion in credit can be seen in the Debt/GDP ratio....

In most cases, a fiat monetary system comes into existence as a result of excessive public debt. When the government is unable to repay all its debt in gold or silver, the temptation to remove physical backing rather than to default becomes irresistible.... [Nixon removing US from gold std August of 1971. cv]

Hyper-inflation is the terminal stage of any fiat currency.

In hyper-inflation, money looses most of its value practically overnight. Hyper-inflation is often the result of increasing regular inflation to the point where all confidence in money is lost. In a fiat monetary system, the value of money is based on confidence, and once that confidence is gone, money irreversibly becomes worthless, regardless of its scarcity. Gold has replaced every fiat currency for the past 3000 years.... kwaves.com...

I stopped trying to make sense of the Tea Party's actions. The only one of their leaders who makes even remote sense is Rob Paul, but no one listens to him. The others like Palin and Bachmann are so clueless about economics it's really scary to think about them influencing policies and actions.

I mean, just read this Bachmann quote:

"If we took away the minimum wage -- if conceivably it was gone -- we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level." Michele Bachmann, Jan. 2005

She essentially wants to turn the US into China!! I got an even better idea than Michelle: Why don't we stop paying salaries completely? I mean, that way, those companies wouldn't have to waste money on it and could make more profits. Of course that way no one could afford to buy their products anymore, but who cares about that, right? RIGHT?

I don't know what's scarier, people like Palin/Bachmann trying to mislead the people like that, or the fact that there's apparently enough clueless people to actually buy into that nonsense.

And if you think the economy's bad now, just wait and see what happens if the US defaults on its debt. Even worse, in the medium term, the US$ WILL be replaced as the world's reserve currency...and when that happened to England in the 19th century, their currency lost 80% of value. If the US doesn't fix it's deficit and economy until that happens (and right now it looks like they might not), the US as we know it is pretty much dead.

reply to post by shtf2012


The Tea Party, which I have been following through my time on Infowars, was started to end the Fed and the unconstitutional Federal Income Tax. If the 60s taught us anything it was that if/when you organize, the Feds will be there to infiltrate. Anything that has happened to change the Tea Party since they set out for these original goals can be understood as infiltration.

But I will say that none of those original members ever sent an invitation to any Republicans except of course Ron Paul. In his case, many of his ideas were the basis of the formation of the Tea Party in the first place, and he was leaning in a libertarian way at that moment anyhow.

Now you have it ~ all else has been attempts to derail.

In my most sincere opinion, the Tea Party is about our only hope. No more spending, no more taxes, smaller government and less interference in people's lives - sounds good to me. They are the only ones demanding a balanced budget ammendment and I find it strange that neither the democrats nor non-tea party republicans support it!? Obviously the old guard is interested in returning to business as usua. NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

reply to post by shtf2012


And heres a good example of mass mainstream news brainwashing, the Tea Party isnt the cause of debt default.

Originally posted by Jigore
reply to post by shtf2012

 

In my humble opinion, the Tea party does not have a single line of thought. They have many, wich are often conflicting wich each others. The Tea party is the political embodiment of pissed off peoples who are not sure why they are pissed off.

Why do idiots like you keep posting this type of offensive crap about the tea party?
What's so hard to understand, The tea party is against big gov which which has gotten us exactly where we are today. Big gov spends big money on big programs whether it's war/military complex or massive welfare programs that most people shouldn't be qualified for which causes big debt. this type of gov has put us in 15 trillion dollars of debt, do you understand....ehhh?

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by shtf2012

 

And heres a good example of mass mainstream news brainwashing, the Tea Party isnt the cause of debt default.

I've never claimed they were THE cause.
What i am saying is they are using this trumped up "crisis" TO blame the Tea Party.
Big difference.
Maybe the thread title mislead you.

I would like to make it clear for the sake of these discussions that private individuals in America are not to blame for the debt. It is the political class (anyone who gains from political power) that is to blame.

I am not the government. America is not the government. The issues the government has are autogenous.

Even on these forums everyone sounds very divided over all this stuff.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
I stopped trying to make sense of the Tea Party's actions. The only one of their leaders who makes even remote sense is Rob Paul, but no one listens to him. The others like Palin and Bachmann are so clueless about economics it's really scary to think about them influencing policies and actions.

I mean, just read this Bachmann quote:

"If we took away the minimum wage -- if conceivably it was gone -- we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level." Michele Bachmann, Jan. 2005

She essentially wants to turn the US into China!! I got an even better idea than Michelle: Why don't we stop paying salaries completely? I mean, that way, those companies wouldn't have to waste money on it and could make more profits. Of course that way no one could afford to buy their products anymore, but who cares about that, right? RIGHT?

I don't know what's scarier, people like Palin/Bachmann trying to mislead the people like that, or the fact that there's apparently enough clueless people to actually buy into that nonsense.

And if you think the economy's bad now, just wait and see what happens if the US defaults on its debt. Even worse, in the medium term, the US$ WILL be replaced as the world's reserve currency...and when that happened to England in the 19th century, their currency lost 80% of value. If the US doesn't fix it's deficit and economy until that happens (and right now it looks like they might not), the US as we know it is pretty much dead.

edit on 30-7-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

No minimum wage is harming people and economy.Let's imagine that some company want to hire a homeless to rake leaves out of estate. It's an easy job for few hours per day, so they can't pay him minimal wage, because they won't have any profit. But law orders them to do that. So at long last homeless don't have a work, and company need to order raking leaves to few of their workers, because they already have the job and one person can't stand so much work per day. Company loose from such policy, because workers who could do more qualified job, need to do some tedious mindless raking.
www.scoop.co.nz...
epionline.org...

reply to post by shtf2012


Nah it's to blame obama. The majority of American people won't see this as the Tea Party's doing they will see it is Obama because they won't recall what the cause of the direct effects were they will just see the effects and see who is sitting as president.

That is what this whole thing has been about. It is why republicans raised the debt ceiling 19 times with the last president but not now. They are doing it because they know it's terrible but it will make people want the dems out.