Dear Brother's and Sister's in Christ!

reply to post by chrissiel123


You wrote:

["Or am I misunderstanding you?"]

Yes.

Quote: ["Why is it that normal is bad here and abnormal is just peachy keen?"]

You mean 'normal' like in average or as in sane? If the last is the case, it's because christian missionaries and critics of christian missionaries have very different criteria for what's 'sane'.

Quote: ["You want to know why Christians feel hated? Because we are."]

And you have never stopped to wonder why, instead of letting the persecution complex get full steam? (Though I think 'hated' is a bit over the top).

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by wdkirk

 

....is this the meeting for Brother's and Sister's of Christ?

That's what the thread title said, but after clicking the link and reading the first page of replies it appears to be an anti-Christian circle jerk.

Or it may be a well-considered reaction to someone using a public forum as a pulpit (and if not blind knowing the consequences from the start).

I hear ya man! I've tried numerous times to explain to folks that just because this is a Religion, Faith, and Theology forum doesn't mean we can have threads about Religion, Faith, or Theology.

Originally posted by wdkirk
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I am not an atheist.

I don't need a 10 minutes video to save me.

I do NOT care what you call yourself.

And as special as you are......the video is for all to see if they would like and are open to another persons experience.....so suit yourself.

I do not have the power to save anyone.... but thank you.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by MamaJ

The Christians message.... "Believe in Jesus, do not go to hell my friend....I love you and so does Jesus".

The Atheist's message...."You are stupid ....go to hell I dont care where we spend eternity because there isn't one".

"Believe in Jesus", simple as that? Believe in Santa. Believe in Bigfoot. It's really not that simple.

I love you too Sugar Britches, and I don't need a god to in order to do so.

The atheist's message is "you are stupid, go to hell....etc.?" Sure, some atheists will call you stupid. Some christians will call me stupid. I used to attend a church where the pastor spoke about agnostic people and called them ignorant. But generally, all being an atheist means is that you don't believe gods exist. Now, anything more than that it is just an individual's independent perception.

I'll be honest, I would love to have a life after this one, but I see no reason to believe there is one. I'm not going to invest in a belief system that touts an afterlife just because it gives me some kind of hope and comfort, not knowing for sure whether or not it's true.

I want to believe in the most true things possible, and the least amount of false things as possible. I care about what I believe in.

edit on 29-7-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

Have you not read my previous posts? Had you read them then you would clearly know where I stand. Please do not confuse yourself. I am in no way trying to offend you by saying that.

IT IS UP TO EACH ONE OF US ON OUR OWN MERIT to decide what to believe or not to believe. I can tell you what I believe based on my perception and based on my experiences ....but they are MINE....and mine alone.

If you believe in an afterlife all your life and then you die.....and you experience nothing....then you are not aware because you are back to dust and thats it.....you do not go to a "God". All is well. You do not exist.

If you believe in an afterlife and your energy transforms into something else...then ok....maybe you go to a God or you don't. You are now living again and where I have no idea.

Either way you have nothing to lose.

If the Bible is "right" about Hell....well then you may have a lot to lose.

I am not saying that you should be scared into believing. I was not scared and still do not fear the unknown. I live my life right..I pray ....and I feel the Holy Spirit move within me like an Ocean of High Tides! Its there....that is where I feel my faith so strongly is in my heart because of my perception, experience, and the awe I feel when a new revelation is revealed to my spirit. This Planet along with our Solar System is so magical and filled with so many mystical experiences. I have a true love for the creation and the creator. THIS IS ME.

Where you are in your journey is solely up to you and there is nothing I can do or say except to share with you my experiences.....which are indeed cooler than a fan!

"I do not want" you to think there is nothing "out there" after such a short existence here.... because I love you and everyone. Where there is no hope ....seems like a grim life to me and I want more for my fellow brother/sister. I want us all to have hope. But again...this IS ME.

When it is all said and done it will be JUST ME to answer any questions if there is any at all. It will be me and it is my responsibility to figure out Truth on my own along with the help of others stories.

With love and peace to you and yours!!! xoxoxox


Jenn

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by chrissiel123
He did it as an act of sacrifice - to save everyone else. that is not something anyone else would do.

People die for other people every day, and they don't have to. If you had a chance to save everyone in the whole world with your life, would you do it? If not, are you saying there is no one here on this planet who would do it, when there are people putting there lives on the line everyday, sometimes just to save ONE person. Look at firefighters, police officers, etc.

Man can't save himself, God knows this.

13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. John 15:13

That's what makes what Christ did so beautiful. He was willing to give his life on our behalf.

reply to post by chrissiel123


That's the nuttiest thing i've heard yet. God was humiliated? Humiliated in front of whom? The Devil? Is that what this is all about.

If you left your children alone, with a plate of cookies on the table, and told not to eat one, and they did, what would you do? Disown them? Kill them?

Now what if they thought those cookies would make them be just like you? Wouldn't you be flattered.

Silly Christians.

As far as Jesus dying for us.....that's already been answered, imo.

Originally posted by MamaJ

If the Bible is "right" about Hell....well then you may have a lot to lose.

...and if the Koran is right, you have a lot to lose.

Originally posted by windword
As far as Jesus dying for us.....that's already been answered, imo.

You must have knowledge we do not know of. Where has this been stated as fact? I'd love to see it.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
I think he was referring to what Hydroman said about it.

I think Jesus died for our sake. He lived a sinless life and could have gone straight to heaven without dying.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

I think he was referring to what Hydroman said about it.

I think Jesus died for our sake. He lived a sinless life and could have gone straight to heaven without dying.

Your just rambling. Are there any atheists you Don't stick up for? Just feeding you, since you want to be feed

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
Why do you think you will go to heaven and an atheist, not?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Why do you think you will go to heaven and an atheist, not?

You should be able to answer this for yourself. If you are really aware of the Beast.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by chrissiel123
He did it as an act of sacrifice - to save everyone else. that is not something anyone else would do.

People die for other people every day, and they don't have to. If you had a chance to save everyone in the whole world with your life, would you do it? If not, are you saying there is no one here on this planet who would do it, when there are people putting there lives on the line everyday, sometimes just to save ONE person. Look at firefighters, police officers, etc.

I agree with Hydoman. Everybody on this planet dies. Some people, willing die helping someone. The fact that Jesus died is meaningless. Everybody dies. How he died. Betrayed by his people. Hmmm. Not that unusual. No big deal.

You're saying, "he didn't have to die. He could have gone straight to heaven." Proove it! I don't believe you. Nobody gets out of here alive. Not even Jesus.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Why do you think you will go to heaven and an atheist, not?

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."

2 Peter 2:1

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by wdkirk

 

....is this the meeting for Brother's and Sister's of Christ?

That's what the thread title said, but after clicking the link and reading the first page of replies it appears to be an anti-Christian circle jerk.

Or it may be a well-considered reaction to someone using a public forum as a pulpit (and if not blind knowing the consequences from the start).

I hear ya man! I've tried numerous times to explain to folks that just because this is a Religion, Faith, and Theology forum doesn't mean we can have threads about Religion, Faith, or Theology.

And I have answered, that .......independent of anything being presented based on science/logic procedure or from a faith perpective........a public forum isn't a sheltered place for propaganda. It's a dialogue-mode.


Case A:

1: "It's true, because".

2: "It's not true, because".



Case B:

1: "It's true, because my truth-seeking method says so"

2: "It's not true, because MY truth-seeking method says so"



Case C:

1: "It's true, because my truth-seeking method is validated"

2: "It's not true, because my truth-seeking method is BETTER validated"


Eventually this SHOULD lead us to epistemology, which it never does.

In the meantime, until we possibly arrive to epistemology, more or less simplistic to sophisticated arguments from cases A to C will manifest, and compressed it will sound: Is, isn't, is, isn't......

There's as much a right to say "yes", as there is to say "no", so let's once and for all get rid of all those disguised efforts of censorship, which rest on a "persecution"-gambit and similar tactical maneuvers (and with similar I also include possible efforts from the opposition of religious missioning to even hint at censorship).

If someone says (a specified) 'hallelujah', I can (topic-related to the specific 'hallelujah') say "bosh" in a way not transgressing manners and decorum. And vice versa.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

I think he was referring to what Hydroman said about it.

I think Jesus died for our sake. He lived a sinless life and could have gone straight to heaven without dying.

Your just rambling. Are there any atheists you Don't stick up for? Just feeding you, since you want to be feed

edit on 30-7-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-7-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

Are you in a "if you're not with me, you're against"-way implying, that jmd60 is a 'traitor' to YOUR cause.

Let me assure you, that he is not a 'traitor' to christianity at large. Quite the contrary.

He is one of those whose opinions I listen to with respect, and I have actually LEARNED something, from what I consider coming from his competence (and attotudes). There are many basic existential points, where he and I would disagree completely, but as an ambassador of bible/Jesus/God, I consider him worth listening to.

My personal impression of jmd60 is also, that you wouldn't expect him to lead a group of thugs, picking you up at 3 in the morning, EVEN if HIS ideology had the power to do so.

How comes this personal attack on a functional dialogue? A dialogue, which can SAVE christianity from killing itself through its often overuse of invasive methods and self-righteousness.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Why do you think you will go to heaven and an atheist, not?

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."

2 Peter 2:1

Relating to OP, where the 'world hates' christians, it seems to me, that you have extended this to be christians 'hating' christians, by introducing a direction of who the "TRUE christians" are, with it's long and probably never-ending heresy-fights/quibbles etc.

Once more demonstrating the authoritarian aspect of some christian subsets.

reply to post by windword

You're saying, "he didn't have to die. He could have gone straight to heaven." Prove it! I don't believe you. Nobody gets out of here alive. Not even Jesus.

According to the Bible, is what I meant. I don't think there is a scientific proof. If people wonder about Jesus, they would know about that person, Jesus from the Bible. If someone believed there was an actual man as described, it would be because of a certain confidence that this book was not just a fabricated hoax but a compilation of writings by men throughout history, writing what they believed to be accurate and true. Besides Jesus, there are many other characters in the Bible, an early one was Enoch who lived before the flood. It was said of him that he walked with the Lord, indicating a life of holiness, and then was gone and no one could find him, with the inference that God had taken him up.
Elijah the prophet boldly confronted the reigning monarchs of his country at great personal risk, to bring righteousness to his country. At the end of his ministry, he was taken up to heaven by a fiery chariot in the sky.
Jesus lived a holy life and also confronted the leaders of his nation to bring righteousness to it. So, logically, he was doubly a candidate for being taken up alive and being saved from death.
Jesus chose himself to stay long enough, at the end of his ministry, to purify himself. An example of this concept in action would be Moses, who though he worked mightily for God, ended up sinning against the representation of god at that time, which in this particular case was a rock. Moses was allowed to die, but in some way, his death nullified a certain defilement within his personality that was a result of that failure of faith.
Jesus through his suffering at the end of his life, starting with his emotional suffering and sweating blood shortly before his arrest, and then a few hours later, scourging and the crown of thorns, be was baptized in his own blood, the blood of the lamb, so to speak, which cleansed and purified him from every defilement accumulated though being on this sinful earth. Included was the sins of the world which he destroyed in his body at the moment of death. He had prepared himself to go up to heaven but this time not just to be alive, but to fill the spot or role and position that awaited his arrival in heaven to be lord over all that will come to him to be purified themselves in this blood already shown to be effective for doing away with sins.

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Why do you think you will go to heaven and an atheist, not?

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."

2 Peter 2:1

Relating to OP, where the 'world hates' christians, it seems to me, that you have extended this to be christians 'hating' christians, by introducing a direction of who the "TRUE christians" are, with it's long and probably never-ending heresy-fights/quibbles etc.

Once more demonstrating the authoritarian aspect of some christian subsets.

Umm, a "false teacher" doesn't necessarily mean they are Christian. In fact, in this passage's context they would not be Christians if they were "denying" Christ.

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by wdkirk

 

....is this the meeting for Brother's and Sister's of Christ?

That's what the thread title said, but after clicking the link and reading the first page of replies it appears to be an anti-Christian circle jerk.

Or it may be a well-considered reaction to someone using a public forum as a pulpit (and if not blind knowing the consequences from the start).

I hear ya man! I've tried numerous times to explain to folks that just because this is a Religion, Faith, and Theology forum doesn't mean we can have threads about Religion, Faith, or Theology.

And I have answered, that .......independent of anything being presented based on science/logic procedure or from a faith perpective........a public forum isn't a sheltered place for propaganda. It's a dialogue-mode.


Case A:

1: "It's true, because".

2: "It's not true, because".



Case B:

1: "It's true, because my truth-seeking method says so"

2: "It's not true, because MY truth-seeking method says so"



Case C:

1: "It's true, because my truth-seeking method is validated"

2: "It's not true, because my truth-seeking method is BETTER validated"


Eventually this SHOULD lead us to epistemology, which it never does.

In the meantime, until we possibly arrive to epistemology, more or less simplistic to sophisticated arguments from cases A to C will manifest, and compressed it will sound: Is, isn't, is, isn't......

There's as much a right to say "yes", as there is to say "no", so let's once and for all get rid of all those disguised efforts of censorship, which rest on a "persecution"-gambit and similar tactical maneuvers (and with similar I also include possible efforts from the opposition of religious missioning to even hint at censorship).

If someone says (a specified) 'hallelujah', I can (topic-related to the specific 'hallelujah') say "bosh" in a way not transgressing manners and decorum. And vice versa.

AND???? In a Religion, Faith, and Theology forum Christians, Muslims, Catholics or whatever may enjoy having a discussion of Faith and or Theology. Sometimes, (I mean this is quite rare), sometimes we enjoy delving a bit deeper into our faith with like-minded individuals. Sometimes, (same qualifier), sometimes we like to move past the "God exists", "Nuu uh, prove it" discussions.

Sometimes.