Dear Brother's and Sister's in Christ!

Originally posted by Mantha

The OP's intention was to bring Christian believers together. Tell me, what business of you to come into a thread and interrupt it. That's what all you non-believers have done. It is my right to exercise my beliefs and it is my right to defend it.

Go join an atheistic thread and discuss the importance of believing in nothing.

For one, you guys believe that we hate you, as stated in the OP. As a non-believer, we are considered "the world" by you guys. You say that "the world" hates you because your ancient writings say so. I don't hate you. Do you hate me? Why would I hate you? I have christian friends and family and I love them.

Amen Brother!

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by Mantha

The OP's intention was to bring Christian believers together. Tell me, what business of you to come into a thread and interrupt it. That's what all you non-believers have done. It is my right to exercise my beliefs and it is my right to defend it.

Go join an atheistic thread and discuss the importance of believing in nothing.

For one, you guys believe that we hate you, as stated in the OP. As a non-believer, we are considered "the world" by you guys. You say that "the world" hates you because your ancient writings say so. I don't hate you. Do you hate me? Why would I hate you? I have christian friends and family and I love them.

I don't think that you are one of the non-believers that pushes their hate off on others. It's far to easy to generalize people. I have non-Christian friends as well that I believe are deserving of love. I believe all people are. It's when people try to deny the love that we are trying to show that represents a truly hateful and rejectful spirit. If we claim that there is an undeniable omnipresent God that is all-loving and we want to share that word with others, they may reject it, and so the shaking of the dust of our feet must take place. It's those non believers that attack so harshly that the scripture addresses.

Well, I don't hate Christians....but I hate what it has done to the world. Its destroyed cultures, condemned the innocent, and held people under-foot for a couple thousand years. Its a dangerous plague cast upon humanity, by people who think they are in some kind of right. Its also successfully cut the link between man and any VALID sense of spirituality.

Originally posted by Mantha

It's when people try to deny the love that we are trying to show that represents a truly hateful and rejectful spirit.

Here's where I have to disagree. I don't think christians have a monopoly on love. I can and do show this same love to others without the help of a god. In the real world, I show much respect to everyone again without the help of any god....or maybe satan is helping me?

reply to post by Revolution9


You wrote (on the numerical christianity):

["Well it is in a decline in the U.S, but growing in other parts of the world. Many still say they are Christian but do not attend Church. I am a Christian who does not attend Church yet I believe Jesus."]

Altogther it's declining. And active christians are estimated to be app. one billion, nominal christians another billion. Just in Europe we have now 3-400.000.000 very passive christians, who probably haven't read more than a few pages of the bible and will visit a church etc 3-4 times in their lives for ceremonial purposes only.

Quote: ["Can I take you at your word that you have read the Bible? May I ask you what made it not believable to you?"]

Yes, though it's years ago I fought my way through the later parts of OT. But I'm well-informed concerning the central doctrines and their farreaching interpretations and implications. That's the main-reason for my bible-scepticism.

Quote: ["I do admit I was a bit harsh earlier. I actually am a very persecuted person for my Faith so that is why it matters to me that you don't hate me and don't look down on me; that you accept me not as a weak minded wrong person, but someone who is different to you. I want your respect and good feeling that you will let me live my life. I promise not to shove it on you, but allow me the space to express my faith sometimes as I allow you to express yourself.

My best friend is a pagan who believes nature is God; it never gets between us and we respect eachother for the different paths we have chosen. I chose Jesus because He is who I want as my King. For me it is based on a rock of rational reasoning, divine revelation even sometimes and loads of loads of reading and thinking."]

A close friend and neighbour of mine for many years was a devout pentacostal. We got very well along also. I'm not all vinegar, and I don't stand outside churches and yell obscenities. In my time on ATS (1½ year), I've made good contact with several NT 'christians' (or similar NT-oriented persons, not all call themselves christians).

It's easy to make me turn the volume down, once I don't feel proselytizing thrown around. This post of yours seems decent enough.

Quote: ["I think some people think Christians are gullible because of all the bad press from idiot TV preachers. I don't adhere to them. I believe they are crooks and not really in it for the love. I am nothing like those kind of people."]

A beloved family member of mine is deeply christian. He's one of the most brilliant people, I've ever met, practically a minor renaissance-genius.

Quote: ["The flying spaghetti monster? How is that a pun on Yeshua? Jesus really did walk the earth. The flying spaghetti monster, however, did not."]

It's a pun on the convoluted 'methodology' and 'reasoning' some christians use, when they want to get 'faith-based immunity', but still try to make other faiths inferior (or similar twistings).

Hmmm, it's late now and I'm tired...but here I go. Ofcourse the flying spaghetti monster never walked the earth. That he's the FLYING spaghetti monster should be a clue.

Quote: ["I respect atheists and all others for their choices, but I have made mine, too. I don't want any other way forced on me and I do not force my way on others. I do like to shine my light bright.

Don't think I believe myself to be any better before God than you. There are better people than I before God who are not even Christian."]

No worries, mate.

Quote: ["I'm just a half-blind man feeling his way through the dark of this world, but I recognise the light before me and I cannot renounce that. It is my everything, my only hope in life."]

Don't I know it. It took me years to find my way.

Quote: ["Respect to you."]

And to you too.

Originally posted by JustinSee
Well, I don't hate Christians....but I hate what it has done to the world. Its destroyed cultures, condemned the innocent, and held people under-foot for a couple thousand years. Its a dangerous plague cast upon humanity, by people who think they are in some kind of right. Its also successfully cut the link between man and any VALID sense of spirituality.

edit on 29-7-2011 by JustinSee because: (no reason given)

You are wrongfully blaming Christians for what the Churches did.

It shows you are not understanding Jesus, but are judging Christ on the actions of people who totally contradicted His Teaching. Do you not see how that can be? Under the disguise of these institutions great evil was done.

They are not Christ. They paid lip service to religion and exploited it for political and colonial gain as a means of control.

If you read the gospels you will understand that what these institutions did was anti-christ.

Please do not blame Jesus who was sinless for the actions of these men. I assure you they were doing their own bidding and not God's.

reply to post by Mantha


You wrote:

["The OP's intention was to bring Christian believers together. Tell me, what business of you to come into a thread and interrupt it. That's what all you non-believers have done. It is my right to exercise my beliefs and it is my right to defend it."]

This has already been answered to several times in the course of this thread. Go back and read those answers.

Quote: ["Go join an atheistic thread and discuss the importance of believing in nothing."]

Your suggestion noted and rejected.

reply to post by Revolution9


What in the world are you talking about? Christianity IS the church, as no real historical documents of Jesus actually exists. Regardless, its a dangerous religious group, and its negative impact on the world greatly outweighs its benefits. I do believe the character of Jesus is not to blame. And the bible itself TRIES to teach good things. But in all reality, its an ancient morality pamphlet for an antique world that does not exist. Any man who claims to know GOD and his/her/its role int he cosmos is either diluted or brainwashed. The concept of God and/or its wants and desires or laws is a mystery to man. The best you can do in this life is treat everyone with respect and try to contemplate our being in the universe and beyond.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Revolution9

 

You wrote (on the numerical christianity):

["Well it is in a decline in the U.S, but growing in other parts of the world. Many still say they are Christian but do not attend Church. I am a Christian who does not attend Church yet I believe Jesus."]

Altogther it's declining. And active christians are estimated to be app. one billion, nominal christians another billion. Just in Europe we have now 3-400.000.000 very passive christians, who probably haven't read more than a few pages of the bible and will visit a church etc 3-4 times in their lives for ceremonial purposes only.

Quote: ["Can I take you at your word that you have read the Bible? May I ask you what made it not believable to you?"]

Yes, though it's years ago I fought my way through the later parts of OT. But I'm well-informed concerning the central doctrines and their farreaching interpretations and implications. That's the main-reason for my bible-scepticism.

Quote: ["I do admit I was a bit harsh earlier. I actually am a very persecuted person for my Faith so that is why it matters to me that you don't hate me and don't look down on me; that you accept me not as a weak minded wrong person, but someone who is different to you. I want your respect and good feeling that you will let me live my life. I promise not to shove it on you, but allow me the space to express my faith sometimes as I allow you to express yourself.

My best friend is a pagan who believes nature is God; it never gets between us and we respect eachother for the different paths we have chosen. I chose Jesus because He is who I want as my King. For me it is based on a rock of rational reasoning, divine revelation even sometimes and loads of loads of reading and thinking."]

A close friend and neighbour of mine for many years was a devout pentacostal. We got very well along also. I'm not all vinegar, and I don't stand outside churches and yell obscenities. In my time on ATS (1½ year), I've made good contact with several NT 'christians' (or similar NT-oriented persons, not all call themselves christians).

It's easy to make me turn the volume down, once I don't feel proselytizing thrown around. This post of yours seems decent enough.

Quote: ["I think some people think Christians are gullible because of all the bad press from idiot TV preachers. I don't adhere to them. I believe they are crooks and not really in it for the love. I am nothing like those kind of people."]

A beloved family member of mine is deeply christian. He's one of the most brilliant people, I've ever met, practically a minor renaissance-genius.

Quote: ["The flying spaghetti monster? How is that a pun on Yeshua? Jesus really did walk the earth. The flying spaghetti monster, however, did not."]

It's a pun on the convoluted 'methodology' and 'reasoning' some christians use, when they want to get 'faith-based immunity', but still try to make other faiths inferior.

Hmmm, it's late now and I'm tired...but here I go. Ofcourse the flying spaghetti monster never walked the earth. That he's the FLYING spaghetti monster should be a clue.

Quote: ["I respect atheists and all others for their choices, but I have made mine, too. I don't want any other way forced on me and I do not force my way on others. I do like to shine my light bright.

Don't think I believe myself to be any better before God than you. There are better people than I before God who are not even Christian."]

No worries, mate.

Quote: ["I'm just a half-blind man feeling his way through the dark of this world, but I recognise the light before me and I cannot renounce that. It is my everything, my only hope in life."]

Don't I know it. It took me years to find my way.

Quote: ["Respect to you."]

And to you too.

Hehe! I liked that. You sound great to me!

Thanks. You know I ainty so boring. I make dub music from my own studio and play all the instruments and I like the naughty green stuff. Just was meant to be for me to struggle on with The True King of The Jews. Our Dear King, even His own despised His Message. He was a Brave Warrior to take all that punishment and abandonment and stick up for His/Our Father.

Can't let Him go, can't abandon that One. He got me good and proper, shot me straight through the heart!!!

Hope we deal more in other threads. Until then, take good care and you're my brother whether you like it or not!

"Warrior" is the last word I would use to describe Jesus.....unless you wanna factor in the decimation of cultures lost (not to mention lost knowledge in general), due to Christianity....

Originally posted by JustinSee
reply to post by Revolution9

 

What in the world are you talking about? Christianity IS the church, as no real historical documents of Jesus actually exists. Regardless, its a dangerous religious group, and its negative impact on the world greatly outweighs its benefits. I do believe the character of Jesus is not to blame. And the bible itself TRIES to teach good things. But in all reality, its an ancient morality pamphlet for an antique world that does not exist. Any man who claims to know GOD and his/her/its role int he cosmos is either diluted or brainwashed. The concept of God and/or its wants and desires or laws is a mystery to man. The best you can do in this life is treat everyone with respect and try to contemplate our being in the universe and beyond.

Nope, true Christianity is the chosen ones of Jesus, who He chose out of the world.

The Roman Catholic Church does not teach Christian doctrine properly, nor does the Jehovah's Witnesses. Infact, I don't belong to any organised institutional church because I find gaping holes in their doctrines that are not from Jesus (too many).

I agree with you on every other point except that first bit! You are not anti-Christian because you see the mystery and you are open to contemplating our existence.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
It seems that many of you are ganging up on the OP as his/her scripture states would happen. Replace the word Christian in this thread with the 'N' word or with the 'B' word (female dog) and then reexamine your comments. Prejudice is not restricted to race or gender. Neither is ignorance.

Originally posted by wdkirk
....is this the meeting for Brother's and Sister's of Christ?

Am I in the right room?

I have my WWJD button and my crown of thorns.

I am ready to save souls whether they like it or not.

If you don't believe in Christ or God then there's only one good thing to do....beat it into you. A good smacking always makes one believe in God.

......or I am just another agnostic having a laugh at this thread.

edit on 29-7-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

Examine your own comments. I am fine with mine. Sex and race are not even a factor in my statements....even if you would like to make them one.

Christianity is prejudice.....against all other religions or lack there of. It is the greatest lie ever perpetuaded in the history of man.

Originally posted by Cor Leonis
reply to post by wdkirk

 

I believe that, yes, I was in the correct room called, "Religion, Faith and Theology. Feel free to spread your love to your brother or sister.

I wasn't questioning whether you were in the right room. I was making sure I was and that I had the correct amount of christianity "flair" and mindset to be here as well.

reply to post by Revolution9


You wrote:

["Hope we deal more in other threads."]

If I start to grump at you elsewhere, please remind me that you're granted immunity. I have never been good at remembering names, and age hasn't made it better.

Quote: [" Until then, take good care and you're my brother whether you like it or not!"]

As long as you don't start drooling, it's OK.

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Prezbo369

 

Here is a little bit about love in the Bible...

Thats it? in the cannon that is the bible, all 1,189 chapters of it, thats the best it has to say about love???

Originally posted by JustinSee
"Warrior" is the last word I would use to describe Jesus.....unless you wanna factor in the decimation of cultures lost (not to mention lost knowledge in general), due to Christianity....

edit on 29-7-2011 by JustinSee because: (no reason given)

Yes, Warrior because He fought a battle to earthly death. Read the Bible.

Jesus taught that we should turn the other cheek when attacked and not to fight back physically. He did not teach to fight and slay in His Name, but to love and pray for your enemies.

I love you, friend or enemy. You have a place in Creation just like me and I could never hurt you because I know I would be hurting myself.

reply to post by Revolution9


Well, yeah, the idea of Christ is ok....but its just an idea. Peace love and understanding are good things. But to focus on Jesus just gets in the way. What kind of advances would humanity make if we chucked all religions out the door?
EDIT: and the warrior thing, I still would rather call him a peacemaker instead....why would you use such a negative word for Jesus? Men are warriors, Jesus is supposed to be something better....

And not to be offensive, but don't tell me to read the bible. I have studied it enough in my time. Even so, there are more interesting religions in the world, religions that don't claim dominance over the earth and the animals.

reply to post by MamaJ


I am not an atheist.

I don't need a 10 minutes video to save me.

Originally posted by Prezbo369
Trust in love or hate?

No, it comes down to trusting the Bible, or more specifically, trust in the claims made in the bible.

And a book of hearsey, stories about stories, complied from many different religions and ancient scriptures, with no author, multiple edits and forgeries, that makes extraordinary claims on the origins on the universe, and how we should live our lives, and contains NOTHING to substantiate those claims, has very very little credibility......

In the year 2011, this kind of self delusion is................ embarrassing

The rest of us have to live in this world with people who make decisions based on no evidence, who take huge decisions on faith................asthough it was a good thing.

I agree 100%.

It is the best group of lies ever told.