Ten Years After - Or How to Lead a Truth Movement

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
The strange thing is that I've never met any of these trusters. Very few "OS" believers swallow everything the government says without question. Indeed a probable majority think there's a cover-up of intel failures.

Soin fact what you're doing is attempting to smear people. Nice.

That's because there is no thing as a "gov't truster" since I have yet to meet anyone who trusts everything the gov't says or does, especially after everyone is seeing what's going in Washington over the debt ceiling limit now, nor is there any such thing as an "official story" as all those details comes from the interviews of many, many eyewitness accounts of people who were directly and indirectly involved.

This is just idiotic conspiracy monger propaganda to get these truthers to swallow their abject paranoia without thinking. It's easier for them to believe the billions of people who disagree with them are either mindless trusters in the gov't or really some secret gov't disinformation agent, rather than consider the possibility their conspiracy theories are rubbish. The only "truster" I'm seeing anywhere are the conspiracy theorists for even taking such idiotic claims seriously.

Really, now, someone's gotta be really, REALLY trusting in everything those damned fool conspiracy sites say to actually believe "holograms planes" and "lasers from outer space" are real.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

That's because there is no thing as a "gov't truster" since I have yet to meet anyone who trusts everything the gov't says or does, especially after everyone is seeing what's going in Washington over the debt ceiling limit now, nor is there any such thing as an "official story" as all those details comes from the interviews of many, many eyewitness accounts of people who were directly and indirectly involved.

I'm talking to a truster now. Why do you trust the debate on the "debt ceiling" is genuine? Do you really think they'll not fund their own jobs? Why doesn't any side suggest closing a few hundred military bases? Why don't you demand it? If there's no such thing as an "official story", where did they come up with the numbers of the dead, or the targets for retribution? Why did the targets start with OBL in Piipelinistan if that wasn't part of the official story? Why did we move on to Iraq if that's not part of the official story? Why are we bombing wedding parties and funerals in Pakistan if that's not part of the official story?

This is just idiotic conspiracy monger propaganda to get these truthers to swallow their abject paranoia without thinking.

You are incapable of posting anything without slinging pejoratives and then you whine about how unfairly you're treated:

Yes, it is. Since I've been here, I've seen numerous posts directed at me personally, saying that I was a punk, that I was evil, and that they hoped I died from a disease. One person even said "sooner or later I was going to get what's coming to me". I've even had one guy forge my handle and post pornographic posts in my name in an effort to "get me". Then, there was the guy who uses an avatar of someone wearing an "investigate 9/11"
T-shirt...while holding an AK-47. What the heck is *that* supposed to mean?

As for me, I'm an American and I feel perfectly comfortable discussing 9/11...namely, becuase I don't need to resort to accusing anyone of being a secret gov't disinformation agent to rationalize why what I'm saying is true like you conspiracy people do. Just HOW many times did you conspiracy people smear that Taxi cab driver by the Pentagon and accuse him of being "involved in the coverup", exactly?

,
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You say I'm posting "conspiracy monger propaganda". For the information of the readers, here's a definition of propaganda:

prop·a·gan·da    
[prop-uh-gan-duh]

Show IPA –noun

1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.

3. the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.

dictionary.reference.com...

Who has the most capacity to propagandize, we idiotic conspiracy mongers who work alone in front of our computers, or the world's media 97% of which is owned by 5 companies?

It's easier for them to believe the billions of people who disagree with them are either mindless trusters in the gov't or really some secret gov't disinformation agent, rather than consider the possibility their conspiracy theories are rubbish.

"Billions". Have you conducted a poll? Speaking only for myself, as I always do, I don't think you're mindless and you're not really that secret. I have personally spent a lot of time and effort posting very good reasons for my suspicions, but all you and your compatriots do is call us idiots, damned fools, and then claim to speak for the rest of the world.

A real person who had valid reasons for their convictions wouldn't resort to such childish and wimpy measures, they would use the available evidence to support their hypothesis. Real people also change their positions when confronted with new information that contradicts their beliefs. You don't do that.

This is your average rebuttal:

The only "truster" I'm seeing anywhere are the conspiracy theorists for even taking such idiotic claims seriously.

And another:

Really, now, someone's gotta be really, REALLY trusting in everything those damned fool conspiracy sites say to actually believe "holograms planes" and "lasers from outer space" are real.

I can tell a propagandist by his insistence to include claims I have never made, wild claims likely made by other propagandists in an attempt to smear the whole truth movement by association.

I'm sure I'm a damned fool for noticing that too.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

The gov't is notorious for NOT wanting to admit their incompetence, which is the whole reason why noone was punished for their incompetence during 9/11- noone in their right mind is going to come forward and admit their incompetence caused 3000 people to get killed.

Many of you OS supporters need to pull your head's out of your sand box. The fact is we all know there was probably some government incompetence, because the government wouldn’t admit to any screw ups, however that doesn’t mean they did not commit a False Flag operation and covered it up.

Your justification to why you believe our government is so innocent is so ridiculous and ignorant.

Incompetence is one thing; however incompetence could not silence NORAD, FAA, and Pentagon while four alleged hijacked airplanes flew around for nearly an hour over highly restricted airspace and over our nuclear power plants. In fact it is impossible for any airplane much less four commercial airliners to change course without permission from tower-control (FAA). You want everyone to believe that two airports from two different states monitoring the four planes never notice the hijacked planes changed their given courses.

Many people do not know how FAA operates, but I will tell you this was no over sight or incompetence, the fact is it was made to happened.
If you really believe it was incompetence and you can prove it, then I will have to say the United States has the worst FAA system than any third world country and yet no planes flying off their given courses have ever escape without some interference
.

On the other hand your conspiracy stories are a meme as you all but admit they cannot exist without the unregulated freedom that allow con artists and crackpots on the internet to push out this drivel unfettered.

Thank god for crackpots and con artists and freedom of speech or we would be living in a communist country.
It really amazes me that the very few people on ATS that do support the lies of the OS, spend most of their time attacking Truthers and not the topic.

I'll wager anything that you yourself were suckered into this truther movement by going to Prison Planet, watching Loose Change, or one of any number of Internet mediums. Do I win my bet?

I’ll wager anything that some people were suckered into the governments’ movement that they never lie and would never commit a treasonable act, such as doing a False Flag and blaming it on a boogie man.

When you conspiracy people fall so much in love with your conspiracy stories that you're even starting to believe gov't incompetence is an intentional orchestrated act, it's time for you people to turn off the computer and go outside for some fresh air.

When very few of you 911 OS pushers fall in love with treasonous criminals in our government that are wanted for war crimes (Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney…) and believe they could never lie, then it is time for you people to turn off the computer and go outside for some fresh air, how does that work for you?

What is the objective of this so called debate?

Is it really to get as many people as possible to UNDERSTAND what could or could not happen?

Debating Newtonian Physics 40 years after the Moon landing is kind of dumb.

A couple of years ago I was arguing with Ryan Mackey on SCIforums. Tony Szamboti was on my side in the "debate". Of course I was saying we need distribution of steel and concrete data. When Mackey left then Szamboti jumped on me. Do experts just want to be BELIEVED and not have everyone TRULY UNDERSTAND?

So this debate goes on because the simple physics problem is not being explained and if most people understood that then the people on the losing side would look REALLY STUPID for not resolving this in a year. Like producing a 10,000 page report that does not even specify the total amount of concrete.

Look at the website for AE911Truth. Where do they talk about the distribution of steel and concrete. I e-mailed Richard Gage about that in 2007 and asked him in Chicago in 2008.

Both sides are spouting a lot of superficial bull# that keeps the silly debate going.

Solve the grade school physics!

Then we can talk about the bad math of economists ignoring the effect of physics on durable consumer goods.

www.spectacle.org...

psik

reply to post by psikeyhackr

Look at the website for AE911Truth. Where do they talk about the distribution of steel and concrete. I e-mailed Richard Gage about that in 2007 and asked him in Chicago in 2008.

That is completely untrue and you know that. If you haven’t read their technical papers on AE911Truth on the subject, then you have no business making false claims.
Many of you OS supporters can’t debunk the proven science, so instead some of you make up fallacies in hoping newbies on ATS do not research your opinions, and are fooled into believing in more of the OS myths.

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by GoodOlDave
I'm talking to a truster now. Why do you trust the debate on the "debt ceiling" is genuine? Do you really think they'll not fund their own jobs? Why doesn't any side suggest closing a few hundred military bases?

The problem isn't that the gov't won't have money to pay its bills. The problem is that it won't have the money to pay ALL its bills, and the bills they're not going to pay is going to be the least relevet to the gov't survivial and prestige, like medicare, unenployment benefits, and the like.

This has nothing to do with the 911 conspiracy so I won't address your misunderstandings here. I'll simply pretend that your belief that the debt debate being a part of some secret conspiracy to take over the world is out of your overreacting from frustration from encountering me. I doubt you're going to find even one conspiracy theorists here who agrees with you that the gov't doesn't borrow and spend like there's no tomorrow.

You are incapable of posting anything without slinging pejoratives and then you whine about how unfairly you're treated:

There is a big difference between stating the observation that you're getting all your information from crackpots and con artists running a bunch of inane conspiracy websites, and wishing bodily harm on someone. I disagree with you and your bizarre conspiracy claims but I don't wish any injury on you. As the Riddler once said, if you kill him, he won't learn nothing.

You say I'm posting "conspiracy monger propaganda". For the information of the readers, here's a definition of propaganda:

1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc

2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc. .

Yes, that pretty much sums up what Alex Jones is doing. To be fair, though, this isn't what Dylan Avery and Richard Gage are doing; those guys are just trying to swindle a fast buck out of you from buyign their T-shirts.

"Billions". Have you conducted a poll? Speaking only for myself, as I always do, I don't think you're mindless and you're not really that secret. I have personally spent a lot of time and effort posting very good reasons for my suspicions, but all you and your compatriots do is call us idiots, damned fools, and then claim to speak for the rest of the world.

All right then, you tell me why you conspiracy theorists have to resort to congregating in these private little internet cliques to share your thoughts. On the other hand, I can openly denounce your conspiracy claims anywhere on the planet, even here.

I can tell a propagandist by his insistence to include claims I have never made, wild claims likely made by other propagandists in an attempt to smear the whole truth movement by association.

I'm sure I'm a damned fool for noticing that too.

I never said you or any other truther were damned fools. You yourself are an otherwise articulate, intelligent person, and in any other respects I probably wouldn't mind chatting with you in a bar over other topics I'm sure we can agree on, like how they should have thrown Jar Jar Binks out of an air lock. It's just that you don't realize you're being conned by the damned fools running those conspiracy web sites you get all your information from so you're simly a victim in their con.

For example, here's the damned fool running the Infowars web site. Is this a man you really think is trustworthy?

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Look at the website for AE911Truth. Where do they talk about the distribution of steel and concrete. I e-mailed Richard Gage about that in 2007 and asked him in Chicago in 2008.

That is completely untrue and you know that. If you haven’t read their technical papers on AE911Truth on the subject, then you have no business making false claims.
Many of you OS supporters can’t debunk the proven science, so instead some of you make up fallacies in hoping newbies on ATS do not research your opinions, and are fooled into believing in more of the OS myths.

What are you accusing me of saying that isn't true. I said look at there website. Who do you think is going to read every one of their papers? How can the distributions of steel and concrete not be important? Then why isn't it prominent on their website? Why should we have to look for fine print?

Are they interested in PUBLICLY SOLVING the problem or keeping debate going?

Are you saying I didn't email Gage in 2007 or talk to him in 2008? If I was lying how could you know?

Here is the email:

Karl - you're right!

Please post this on our newly organized forum next week!!
Thank you! Richard

-----Original Message-----

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 4:38 PM
To: [email protected] Subject: Distribution of Mass

Name: Karl Smithe

Comment: On page 3 of his ENERGY TRANSFER IN THE WTC COLLAPSE, F.R.Greening makes a couple of interestingly dumb mistakes. He says he divides the total mass of the WTC by 110. Doesn't the total mass include the 6 basements? So shouldn't he be dividing by 116.

But even worse, isn't the WTC going to be bottom heavy because every floor must support all of the floors above? Doesn't that mean a lot more mass at the bottom? So averaging that mass shifts the mass upwards. He is saying the upper floors are much heavier than they actually were so that would mean a lot more potential energy would go into the collapse therefore his computations are WRONG.

This original link no longer works: 9/11 & when to Average

This is the same: 9/11 & when to Average

After all of these years shouldn't the experts be able to tell us the tons of steel and tons of concrete that were on every level? Didn't they have to figure that out to design the building in the 60's?

psikey

psik

reply to post by GoodOlDave

The fact is some of you 911 OS supporters lump all Truthers or anyone who dares to speaks out against the OS of 911 or has a different opinion than a very few of you and the fact is very few of you compare all Truthers to be die hard staunch supporters of Alex Jones Infowars, Dylan Avery, Richard Gage and so on, meaning that all Truthers are lairs and want to believe in conspiracy theories because they are all mindless idiots or uneducated misguided people who cannot think for themselves and need to pay more attention to main stream News for the truth as you have demonstrated. Sorry to tell you, most of us do not worship our government as Gods, and most of us know what liars they are, so who are you trying to appeal to?

Trusters: people who believe in anything without doing any research.

The fact is the official story of 911 is a bizarre conspiracy claim told by our government and they want everyone to accept their word as truth. Please…

reply to post by psikeyhackr

What are you accusing me of saying that isn't true.

This:

Where do they talk about the distribution of steel and concrete.

Who do you think is going to read every one of their papers?

I have, and many Truthers have.

How can the distributions of steel and concrete not be important?

It is, but you insist that A&E did not discuss this topic. You are wrong they did, read the technical papers on the subject.

Then why isn't it prominent on their website?

It’s there you haven’t bother to research their website and I am not here to hold your hand and do your research for you.

Why should we have to look for fine print?

Fine print? Who said that all the their technical papers are fine print? I never did.

Are they interested in PUBLICLY SOLVING the problem or keeping debate going?

Had you bother to read all their technical papers you would have realized they have PUBLICLY SOLVED many of the government and NIST fairytails.

Are you saying I didn't email Gage in 2007 or talk to him in 2008?

No, I never made any such claim and you know that.

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Look at the website for AE911Truth. Where do they talk about the distribution of steel and concrete. I e-mailed Richard Gage about that in 2007 and asked him in Chicago in 2008.

Many of you OS supporters can’t debunk the proven science, so instead some of you make up fallacies in hoping newbies on ATS do not research your opinions, and are fooled into believing in more of the OS myths.

Since when was I an OS supporter?

Maybe you need to concentrate on understanding the subject instead of being loyal to one side.

psik

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

It’s there you haven’t bother to research their website and I am not here to hold your hand and do your research for you.

Their website is 35 pages long with lots of redundant junk.

They are doing the same thing as the NIST just from the opposite side.

It is a simple problem that doesn't require a lot of complexity. It's GRADE SCHOOL Physics.

psik

Originally posted by impressme
The fact is some of you 911 OS supporters lump all Truthers or anyone who dares to speaks out against the OS of 911 or has a different opinion than a very few of you and the fact is very few of you compare all Truthers to be die hard staunch supporters of Alex Jones Infowars, Dylan Avery, Richard Gage and so on, meaning that all Truthers are lairs and want to believe in conspiracy theories because they are all mindless idiots or uneducated misguided people who cannot think for themselves and need to pay more attention to main stream News for the truth as you have demonstrated.

I never said truthers were mindless idiots and I have said many times that you truthers aren't the problem, per se. The problem is that these damned fool conspiracy websites are so seductive in their presentation of their abject paranoia that it makes perfect sense to you how there's no way Islamic fundamentalists would ever want to kill innocent people, and how it makes perfect sense to you how the gov't launched mocked up planes to hit the towers to cover up secretly planted super explosives used as controlled demolitions, along with shooting a cruise missile at the Pentagon along with faking a crash site out in the middle of nowhere for no reason, along with manufactured evidence, faked photographs and television video, and 100,000 secret disinformation agents planted throughout all walks of life pretending to see things that never happened and issue reports that aren't true, all to frame some toilet of a country that not even the Soviet Union thought was worth fighting over. That's not even counting the really fringe claims like hologram planes, lasers from outer space, and shape shifting alien lizards.

The only character flaw I'm seeing you people commit is that you steadfastly refuse to hold your own conspiracy claims up to the exact same stringent level of critical analysis that you do the 9/11 commission report.

Sorry to tell you, most of us do not worship our government as Gods, and most of us know what liars they are, so who are you trying to appeal to?

This may come as a big shock to you, but denouncing the gov't as a pack of liars and denouncing the conspiracy movement as being based entirely upon unreasonable abject paranoia are NOT mutually exclusive. I would strongly suggest that you incorporate the fact into your mythos before continuing any further with this venue, lest you wind up becoming the very mindless propaganda spewing robot you insist you haven't turned into.

You should be an individual and not rely on what some movement does or does not do. Throughout history the bankers have always financed both sides of the revolution so they always finance the movements. The truth is what is indestructible, and the only thing greater than the truth is your own freedom and individuality. But that is the truth, so they are the same.

Originally posted by filosophia
You should be an individual and not rely on what some movement does or does not do. Throughout history the bankers have always financed both sides of the revolution so they always finance the movements. The truth is what is indestructible, and the only thing greater than the truth is your own freedom and individuality. But that is the truth, so they are the same.

Exactly, so it is about understanding Grade School Newtonian Physics for yourself and any organization like AE911Truth should be promoting that and emphasizing the information necessary to do the physics. AE911Truth seems to be promoting AE911Truth.

psik

reply to post by psikeyhackr

Exactly, so it is about understanding Grade School Newtonian Physics for yourself and any organization like AE911Truth should be promoting that and emphasizing the information necessary to do the physics. AE911Truth seems to be promoting AE911Truth.

Wow! Now its Grade School Newtonian Physics! Not too long ago it was high school physics! Boy oh boy, this has just got simpler and simpler and simpler, huh? But you still can't be bothered to actually read anything though, huh? God forbid you should make an effort.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Exactly, so it is about understanding Grade School Newtonian Physics for yourself and any organization like AE911Truth should be promoting that and emphasizing the information necessary to do the physics. AE911Truth seems to be promoting AE911Truth.

Wow! Now its Grade School Newtonian Physics! Not too long ago it was high school physics! Boy oh boy, this has just got simpler and simpler and simpler, huh? But you still can't be bothered to actually read anything though, huh? God forbid you should make an effort.

We are not talking about designing a building. We are talking about destroying one. Less precision is required.

But then the NIST can't even tell us the total amount of concrete in the towers so that tells us the precision of government work.

Newtonian physics is 300 years old. Grade school kids have computers these days. Haven't you noticed. Some schools are up to date.

Ward, A. (1986). Introducing the topic of energy in the fifth grade.

The Third International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) 1999 Report (ISC, 2000) listed benchmarks for physics concepts and skills (Table 1) for Grade 8 students (13 years old) from 38 countries, based on achievement test results in physics items. Benchmarks were identified for top 10%, upper 25%, 50%, and lower 25% levels of the students according to their total score in the test. A concept/skill is anchored at a level if at least 65% of the students at this level and less than 50% of the students at the next lower level correctly answered the item testing the concept/skill.

www.google.com... =j&q=%2B%22newtonian%20physics%22%20%2B%22grade%20school%22%20-conspiracy%20%2Bcomputers%20%2Beducation&ei=AHk4TtCtFoKOsQKz2P31Dw&usg=AFQjCNF7i1nYjKDe ujJxmE0ATXU-qUGqDQ&cad=rja

So when are you going to read the 10,000 pages to find that information and tell us where it is so you can prove I am wrong? No one has done it in about FOUR YEARS. So start reading.

psik

reply to post by GoodOlDave

I have said many times that you truthers aren't the problem, per se. The problem is that these damned fool conspiracy websites

Yes and you always say that Truthers are the problem.

are so seductive in their presentation of their abject paranoia that it makes perfect sense to you how there's no way Islamic fundamentalists would ever want to kill innocent people

No one on ATS has never made that claim, however the radical fundamentalists that you speak of could never carry out 911 the way it was done and you know that.

and how it makes perfect sense to you how the gov't launched mocked up planes to hit the towers

You are absolutely correct, it does make perfect sense that the government would use mocked up planes, if they wanted to pull off a False Flag operation to fool the world, and why not?
What makes perfect sense is that the government refuses to give any real information or evidence to prove their fairytales true about the alleged planes. Yet you take the government word as the Holy Grail as if they have nothing to hide, after they have been caught changing their fairytales repeatedly and stumbling over their lies. If you deny that then you are lying to yourself
.

to cover up secretly planted super explosives used as controlled demolitions,

Secretly planted super explosives, perhaps so, science has proved that demolition was the only way the WTC came down and nothing else. The government fairytale by NIST does not stand up to real science and you know that, yet you insist office fires and jet fuel heated the steel in the WTC in one hour to cause a pancake collapse. Science says that is impossible.

along with shooting a cruise missile at the Pentagon

Fact is the impact hole at the pentagon was too small.
No evidence to prove a plane hit the pentagon, nothing, zilch, just the government telling a story, is there any truth to it? The fact is I haven’t seen any real evidence that backs their claims
.

along with faking a crash site out in the middle of nowhere for no reason,

Sure looks that way, again like the pentagon there is no real evidence to prove a plane crashed in Shanksville, PA.

along with manufactured evidence, faked photographs and television video,

Videos of what? Photographs can be manufactured, if 911 was a False Flag operation and you should know that.

and 100,000 secret disinformation agents planted throughout all walks of life pretending to see things that never happened

No one on ATS has made such a ridiculous claim, only you have.

That's not even counting the really fringe claims like hologram planes, lasers from outer space, and shape shifting alien lizards.

You’re really losing it Dave get a hold on yourself, most people (Truthers) do not believe in all those silly outragous claimes that you continue to make.

The only character flaw I'm seeing you people commit is that you steadfastly refuse to hold your own conspiracy claims up to the exact same stringent level of critical analysis that you do the 9/11 commission report.

Please do not compare Truthers to the proven lies of the 9/11 Commission Report.

Sorry to tell you, most of us do not worship our government as Gods, and most of us know what liars they are, so who are you trying to appeal to?

This may come as a big shock to you, but denouncing the gov't as a pack of liars and denouncing the conspiracy movement as being based entirely upon unreasonable abject paranoia are NOT mutually exclusive.

“a pack of liars” you mean if it walks like a duck… You mean like the upon unreasonable abject paranoia of the government fairytales, don’t you?

I would strongly suggest that you incorporate the fact into your mythos before continuing any further with this venue,

I did incorporate the facts, I cannot help it if you chose to:

lest you wind up becoming the very mindless propaganda spewing robot you insist you haven't turned into.

The fact is if anyone has spewed any mindless propaganda it is the very people who take the governments proven lies as the Holy Grail of truths and continues to regurgitate them in every 911 thread on ATS and spread such loathing against all 911 Truths. If it wasn’t for Truthers murders would never get solved.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I suggest you read the OP.

Originally posted by impressme
Yes and you always say that Truthers are the problem.

Now why do you back up your lie with another lie? How many times have I said that the truthers are simply swallowing the abjetc paranoia being shoveled out by those damned fool conspiracy websites? How many times have I even said "damned fool conspiracy website"? When those con artists deliberately pervert "do the orders still stand" into "stand down order" it's as blatant as it gets that they're engineering the false perception there's some sinister secret plot to take over the world. If you attempt to deny this, you are lying.

No one on ATS has never made that claim, however the radical fundamentalists that you speak of could never carry out 911 the way it was done and you know that.

Of course you truthers are making the claim, how can you possibly deny this? Between you people accusing the 9/11 hijackers of being illiterate goat herding cavemen, Al Qaida being a gov't invention, Bin Laden being a paid CIA agent, the 7/7 attack being staged by MI5, everything in Israel being a false flag operation to frame the Palestinians, as well as the myriad accusations against the gov't, Mossad, secret cults of Satan worshipping numerologists...and I've even met one guy who insists the 9/11 attack was staged by the Canadians...the only ones who you people believe to be completely innocent of the 9/11 attack are Islamic Fundamentalists.

Islamic fundamentalists HAVE hijacked aircraft. Islamic fundamentalists HAVE committed suicide attacks. Islamic fundamentalists HAVE murdered innocent people to promote terror, and Islamic fundamentalists HAVE already attacked the WTC in 1993. It was only a matter of time that someone was going to come along and think to put them all together. It's your arrogant dismissal of foreigners and foreign cultures that led to the horrid underestimation of their abilities that opened the door to the terrorist attck to begin with. Just because they come from an Islamic nation that necessarily means they're goat herders to you truthers?!?

What makes perfect sense is that the government refuses to give any real information or evidence to prove their fairytales true about the alleged planes. Yet you take the government word as the Holy Grail as if they have nothing to hide, after they have been caught changing their fairytales repeatedly and stumbling over their lies. If you deny that then you are lying to yourself

No, actually, you are lying through your teeth. I have said many times already that I don't believe the gov't's account of 9/11, and I have said many times already that someone can mistrust the gov't AS WELL AS dismiss these 9/11 conspiracy claims, and I KNOW you've seen it, so you really can't use that pathetic "you believe everything the gov't says" crutch to prop up your conspiracy stories any longer. This "it can only be one or the other" intolerance dogma exists only in your own mind.

Tell me, in all seriousness, if you are only interested in researching the truth, as you claim you are, then why do you consistantly need to make things up like this?

Fact is the impact hole at the pentagon was too small.
No evidence to prove a plane hit the pentagon, nothing, zilch, just the government telling a story, is there any truth to it? The fact is I haven’t seen any real evidence that backs their claims

No, actually, the hordes of eyewitnesses as well as the thousand bits of aircraft wreckage that appeared all over the place in an eyeblink as well as the recovered black box all show that it was flight 77 that hit the Pentagon. It's simply the case you don't want to believe a plane hit the Pentagon so you make up stuff off the top of your head like how everyone saying things that disagree with you are all secret gov't agents. Even your own conspiracy theorists here (I.E. Bonez) are complaining that people like you are making the rest of the movement look bad by association.

The problem isn't that there's no evidence, becuase there certainly is. The problem is that you're doing this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b1beb73c77e6.jpg[/atsimg]

Thanks for that picture, by the way. It describes what you conspiracy people are doing perfectly so I'm keeping it for my own records. Heck, you even stick your fingers in your ears when I say I don't believe the gov'ts account of 9/11. Is THAT the way you seriously believe is the proper way to "lead a truth movement"?

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

I suggest you read the OP.

I did. That's why I corrected your error on the definition of "trusters", as there isn't a single person on the face of the planet that "explicitely trusts everything the gov't says" but it's undeniable that there are people who explicitely trust everything those damned fool conspiracy websites shovel out.

Aren't there any "secret conspiracy" claims being passed around that you yourself think are inane, like Jesse Ventura pushing Judy Wood's "energy weapons from outer space" claims or that guy (forgot his name) claimign there were mini-nukes in the basement? If there are, it only means you're proving me correct.