I agree with the Inuit people , The sun is definetly moving over a different path in the sky . See M

Okay, I just had an idea which could potentially settle this, with much less time spent than the takes-a-year plan proposed earlier.

How about we get a map together, and mark the exact location of each alleged/apparent change, as well as as-near-to-exact an evaluation of the change as we can. Then we can try to determine whether there are any trends to where the changes are.

We'd have to throw out things confirmed to be illusory, like the thing in the Inuit Elder video. And I think we have to toss aside the Greenland thing for the same reason, but I don't know as much about that, hehe.

reply to post by T3hEn1337ened


Okay. So MY sundial was reading an hour early when pointing towards magnetic north. There are certainly a number of reasons why it might have been off, most likely human error, or because it's just a piece of paper and a pencil, and therefore, rubbish.

So I wandered around town, and found a sundial that was set up in 1976 by the town's garden club. It was reading approximately 2:30, however this was at 3:40 in the afternoon. The question is WHY? I suppose it could be that it wasn't pointing towards magnetic north, however, I did note that it was parallel to the road, which runs in the direction of geographical north, which is probably more accurate for a sundial than magnetic north, though that's just a theory.

WHAT is going ON?

Either both sundials are wrong, or the sun is wrong. Since it's easier for two sundials to be wrong, I propose that my sister's statement of the obvious explains everything.

DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME:

Daylight savings time

Why oh WHY would two sundials both be about an hour early? Well, perhaps it's because most of North America, Europe, and a few other places scattered across the globe, are currently about an hour LATE. Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it, Sherlock!

Now, of course, this does not explain why some people think the sun has moved, but before I am so brash as to call them crazy, perhaps it is something else. Could be anything, really. I don't know, but it seems that the sun has not moved much in my little corner of the globe. Good luck to the rest of you in your quests to uncover the truth and DENY IGNORANCE!

reply to post by Justoneman


Ah, nuts! You beat me to it! Congratulations, you win... being smarter than me, which isn't saying much, but all the same, you can pick up your prize at the prize counter of your mind, smartypants.

An easy way to prove it for yourselves would be to use this site to find the heliacal rising of Sirius for the latitude of your city.

SIrius became invisible when it appeared to move the sun back a few weeks ago. It will rise before sunrise in just a few days, depending on where you live.

The heliacal rising of SIrius was the beginning of the Egyptian calendar, as well as an important date for many ancient peoples. It is probably one of the most watched annual sky events world-wide that doesn't involve the moon.

If the sun's path on the ecliptic had been altered, it would be IMMEDIATELY OBVIOUS because the heliacal rising of Sirius would be affected.

Isn't it amazing that, if a native american says something, there are people on ATS who automatically believe it as gospel, instead of investigating, or even educating themselves.

What's next? Shall we burn a few witches before sundown?

This thread has caused me to lose so much faith in this forum. Not the fact that is was created, but the fact that it has gone on for over 20 pages and people are still posting things like "You know now that you mention it..." and "Of course it's true, we've known this for years."

Wow..just wow. I mean I understand that people here are going to more questioning than others, but it seems the default view is to distrust any information and assume a conspiracy. This is worse than just blindly believing. That most of you are basing this on a second-hand account of someone thinking that they remembered the Sun in a different position makes it even worse.

Unless you were standing in the same place, at the same time, on the same day, the observations are meaningless. Even then, there is a very high chance you are distortijg your memory of the Sun in a different place, or have never really paid much attention to it at all

If you have even an overview level understanding Newtonian mechanics you would understand why this is so ridiculous. However, lacking that here is a very simple expiriment you can conduct yourself that will immediately rule this out. Open up a star map, or better yet just download a star gazing app on your phone. Now, hold the phone up to the stars. Do you see the corresponding star names for what you are seeing in the sky? Good. That means the sky you are seeing is the exact sky anyone in that place has seen for thousands of years, which is why the app is able to calculate your view based on the earths current orbital position and your location. If this was even slightly different, every telescope on the earth would have to adjust their calculations to see the same stars. They don't. The same calculations I use to point my telescope 20 years ago are the same ones I use today.

So there are 3 options as I see it. 1) There is a massive conspiracy involving millions of people, and we've all been secretly offsetting our telescopes without telling anyone. I am also part of a disinformation campaign. 2) The earth and stars are in the same place, but the Sun itself has moved in relation to us. 3) The solar system is in balance, it is simply your perception that is a little off.

An elementary education will rule out 2, and I would hope common sense or logic would rule out number 1. So why is there still any question here?

reply to post by T3hEn1337ened


I've been on DST for several years. During the hours of 4-6 p.m., in my den, which faces directly West, I have always had to close the shades because the sun is blinding. However, this summer, I have not had to do that one time. Something has changed.

I read somewhere awhile back that large earthquakes can shake the earth off it's axis enough to cause things like the sun, moon, stars to appear in different areas than before.

Originally posted by T3hEn1337ened
reply to post by Justoneman

 

Ah, nuts! You beat me to it! Congratulations, you win... being smarter than me, which isn't saying much, but all the same, you can pick up your prize at the prize counter of your mind, smartypants.

alas, you did come up with it on your own. I was just ahead of you by a little bit.

Maybe we should search the answer not in the physical World,
there must be a reason why a huge group of People reported this,
the (physical and logical) facts are against their claim but this People
are still convinced of a change!

I don't believe (hope) into the "Matrix Theory" (that we are just a part of a computer program)
but there is something we need to investigate!

This is a very interesting post and I'm glad you have raised it. I have just signed up to ATS in the last few minutes just so that I could add my comment to this post.

Islam prophesies that the sun will rise from the West, instead of from rising from the East, in the the End Times, before Day of Judgement.

Both the Quran and the Hadith affirm that this phenomenon will take place. The occurrence of this phenomenon is considered in Islam as one of the major signs that indicate the Day of Judgement is close.

Any comments?

Originally posted by Akasirus
This thread has caused me to lose so much faith in this forum. Not the fact that is was created, but the fact that it has gone on for over 20 pages and people are still posting things like "You know now that you mention it..." and "Of course it's true, we've known this for years."

Wow..just wow. I mean I understand that people here are going to more questioning than others, but it seems the default view is to distrust any information and assume a conspiracy. This is worse than just blindly believing. That most of you are basing this on a second-hand account of someone thinking that they remembered the Sun in a different position makes it even worse.

Unless you were standing in the same place, at the same time, on the same day, the observations are meaningless. Even then, there is a very high chance you are distortijg your memory of the Sun in a different place, or have never really paid much attention to it at all

If you have even an overview level understanding Newtonian mechanics you would understand why this is so ridiculous. However, lacking that here is a very simple expiriment you can conduct yourself that will immediately rule this out. Open up a star map, or better yet just download a star gazing app on your phone. Now, hold the phone up to the stars. Do you see the corresponding star names for what you are seeing in the sky? Good. That means the sky you are seeing is the exact sky anyone in that place has seen for thousands of years, which is why the app is able to calculate your view based on the earths current orbital position and your location. If this was even slightly different, every telescope on the earth would have to adjust their calculations to see the same stars. They don't. The same calculations I use to point my telescope 20 years ago are the same ones I use today.

So there are 3 options as I see it. 1) There is a massive conspiracy involving millions of people, and we've all been secretly offsetting our telescopes without telling anyone. I am also part of a disinformation campaign. 2) The earth and stars are in the same place, but the Sun itself has moved in relation to us. 3) The solar system is in balance, it is simply your perception that is a little off.

An elementary education will rule out 2, and I would hope common sense or logic would rule out number 1. So why is there still any question here?

WOW, it amazes me that someone can sound so condescending when they don't seem to have read all the posts in this thread...............

Firstly, I believe that it was long ago accepted on this thread that the sun is in the same position in relationship to the earth and that it would be ridiculous to think that there is a coverup by all astronomers world-wise, who would have easily spotted any difference.

Secondly, I have a problem with your use of the phrase:

That most of you are basing this on a second-hand account of someone thinking that they remembered the Sun in a different position....

As I have stated in my previous post JonU2 previous post there have been some very compelling eyewitness accounts based on:

1. Garden beds having been postioned for optimum sunshine during summer and having received that optimum sunshine for many years - this year, however, they are getting no sunshine at all due to the sun missing them by a considerable margin
   
2. Buildings where windows have always received sunshine during the summer months for many years but this year are not - the sun missing them by a considerable margin
   

These are the accounts that need explaining and which, in my mind, have been dismissed or, in your case, ignored as a minority in your 'explanation'.

Please think about the above cases and see if we can come up with some sort of explanation.

The two theories that are currently on the table, IMHO, are a 'refraction of the sun' theory and some sort of earth crust bulging or slipping - these two ideas could account for the fact that this phenomena is only being experienced in various different areas globally while other areas are stating that there is absolutely no difference to normal sun position.

As stated by a previous poster - a map plotting all of the reports based on examples such as above would be useful.....

reply to post by FabiCan


How would this happen? Either the earth would have to flip completely upside down... or the poles would have a complete reversal. Am I correct in my thinking here?

reply to post by Solasis


I believe you can create and post a map off google maps. I think its a good idea.

Originally posted by JonU2

As I have stated in my previous post JonU2 previous post there have been some very compelling eyewitness accounts based on:

1. Garden beds having been postioned for optimum sunshine during summer and having received that optimum sunshine for many years - this year, however, they are getting no sunshine at all due to the sun missing them by a considerable margin
   
2. Buildings where windows have always received sunshine during the summer months for many years but this year are not - the sun missing them by a considerable margin
   

These are the accounts that need explaining and which, in my mind, have been dismissed or, in your case, ignored as a minority in your 'explanation'.

Please think about the above cases and see if we can come up with some sort of explanation.

I think there is a good chance you are ignoring the most obvious explanation, which is that the people who have presented those findings really have no idea what they are talking about. Anecdotal evidence is just that.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by JonU2

As I have stated in my previous post JonU2 previous post there have been some very compelling eyewitness accounts based on:

1. Garden beds having been postioned for optimum sunshine during summer and having received that optimum sunshine for many years - this year, however, they are getting no sunshine at all due to the sun missing them by a considerable margin
   
2. Buildings where windows have always received sunshine during the summer months for many years but this year are not - the sun missing them by a considerable margin
   

These are the accounts that need explaining and which, in my mind, have been dismissed or, in your case, ignored as a minority in your 'explanation'.

Please think about the above cases and see if we can come up with some sort of explanation.

I think there is a good chance you are ignoring the most obvious explanation, which is that the people who have presented those findings really have no idea what they are talking about. Anecdotal evidence is just that.

So you're saying that any eyewitness evidence presented on here is to be dismissed? Let's face it, if we take your skepticism just a little bit further, even if photos are presented then you could dismiss them for any number of reasons.

You really are a big help to any discussion with that attitude.............just come right on in and, basically, say that these people are lying! They've explained their observations and you're saying that they are wrong.

Personally, it sounds like you are the one who has no idea what they are talking about........

Originally posted by JonU2


So you're saying that any eyewitness evidence presented on here is to be dismissed? Let's face it, if we take your skepticism just a little bit further, even if photos are presented then you could dismiss them for any number of reasons.

Dismissed? No. Just taken for what it is. Anecdotal evidence. This thread is also full of people giving anecdotal evidence hat contradicts the claims of the OP. Are you ignoring them, but favoring the ones that support your own pre-conceived notions?

Anecdotal evidence is great and all, but it is 'proof' of nothing.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by JonU2


So you're saying that any eyewitness evidence presented on here is to be dismissed? Let's face it, if we take your skepticism just a little bit further, even if photos are presented then you could dismiss them for any number of reasons.

Dismissed? No. Just taken for what it is. Anecdotal evidence. This thread is also full of people giving anecdotal evidence hat contradicts the claims of the OP. Are you ignoring them, but favoring the ones that support your own pre-conceived notions?

Anecdotal evidence is great and all, but it is 'proof' of nothing.

I've made my point quite clearly and have not ignored or dismissed anyone. I, also, do not have any pre-conceived notions, as is quite clear from my posts in which I've mentioned BOTH sides of the eyewitness observations. (Please quote from my posts anything that I've written that supports what you have just posted, which I know will be nothing)

Please don't just attack me with lies because I made some very valid points about your post.

reply to post by tinker9917


Hi Tinker9917, I'm not sure of the exact details, but I've just done a little research and it seems that the earth will get to a stage where it begin to rotate clockwise. There might even be some scientific evidence to support the fact that the earth's rotation is slowly slowing down and will get to a stage before it grinds to a halt and then reverses.

reply to post by CodyOutlaw


My brother, who is a great skeptic in most areas, told me today he, too, has noticed the sun rising more north than before, and setting differently too. It has to be the earth is changing. Things are always changing. I think it is exciting to be a part of the earth changing.

Originally posted by JonU2


I've made my point quite clearly and have not ignored or dismissed anyone. I, also, do not have any pre-conceived notions, as is quite clear from my posts in which I've mentioned BOTH sides of the eyewitness observations. (Please quote from my posts anything that I've written that supports what you have just posted, which I know will be nothing)

Please don't just attack me with lies because I made some very valid points about your post.

I have not 'attacked you', nor have I offered critique of all your posts. I merely responded to your assertion that so many people thinking they are seeing something is evidence of anything other than a lot of people not knowing what they are talking about..