I agree with the Inuit people , The sun is definetly moving over a different path in the sky . See M

reply to post by CodyOutlaw

In the case of the Inuit, the apparent change is due to climatological effects which occur in polar regions.

The Sun is pretty much where I always remember it being at various times of the year. I grew up in this general area and have been living in this house for 15 years. Does that mean that something is wrong with my vision?

A logical explanation would be that your memory or sense of direction is flawed.

I noticed this as well, i thought it was nothing, but the Sun has changed it's path and is now in a totally different place as to where it used to be, where i live it used to set by (excuse my lack of approppriate vocabulary) going under the hill a few miles away from me, but now it set's by going under the sea almost completely different, to what it was, what if indeed the earth is turning on it's Axis, it would explain the heat we've been having where i live, it nearly always rains, and the heat lately has been up in the high 20's.

reply to post by Phage


Phage, if you have read all posts in this thread, you will have noticed some very compelling eyewitness testimony from a large number of posters, for example:

• Garden beds having been postioned for optimum sunshine during summer and having received that optimum sunshine for many years - this year, however, they are getting no sunshine at all due to the sun missing them by a considerable margin
  
• Buildings where windows have always received sunshine during the summer months for many years but this year are not - the sun missing them by a considerable margin
  

As you seem ever-present on threads with subject matters of this ilk, could you please explain how this sudden difference could possibly occur? Or, at least, offer an explanation of how the sun's position could theoretically seem to change (if it could!) due to the earth's journey around it or a change in the earth's wobble???? (Obviously, I have no real expertise in this field!!!!!).

I believe that people should be prepared to admit that if there is convincing evidence of things that do not fit into accepted rules then we should at least admit that this may be a new phenomena and look at possible ways to explain it - rather than deny it's existence.

I, personally, do not accept that a large proportion of these accounts can be explained by bad memory or poor sense of direction............as shown in my examples above, a lot of posters are making reference to things that have not changed in position for some years and have always received the same pattern of sunshine (there would have been minor changes that wouldn't be noticed - I'd guess) but this year a large alteration is being seen.

Could posters please try and think logically about this and refrain from the repetitive posts about how ridiculous the thread is 'scientifically' or that it's just an optical illusion? It makes me wonder why so many people from disparate areas of the world are reporting this in convincing posts..............

Or I guess, like some of the arrogant posts that I've seen, I should just dismiss these people as either being deluded fools or liars - should I?

reply to post by Phage


Sorry for the late reply , But it was strange the minute I thought of the picture proof . Minutes later I found it on another thread. somewhere in the back of my mind I knew this was going to happen by someone. good proof though

Originally posted by Human0815

We should create a Team

we need 20- 25 or even more People from all around the Globe
who are willing to do a proper Test!
(10 from the Northern Hemisphere and 10 from the Southern)

1. We calculate the exact Time of Sunrise and Sunset
2. We locate the exact Points of this via an old Almanac in Advance
3. We compare the Data

This year there are so many People all around the Globe and i think we should investigate it
in a proper Way to confirm the Story or not!

Who want to participate?

Until now only 3 People want to participate,
so we still need more!

I done a check last 06/21 and everything was okay,
what i think is that maybe the Atmosphere (which act like Glasses) changed so much!

reply to post by JonU2

One does not have to be a liar or a fool to be mistaken in their observations and memory.

I've read the posts. I also have my own experience to tell me that there has been no noticeable change in the location of the sunrise and sunset. I have sunrise and sunset calculators to tell where the Sun should rise and set and guess what, it does so in the proper location. Have you seen the posts from myself and others which say this? Have you seen the images of sunrises and sunsets occurring where they are supposed to? Have you seen any astronomers, amature and otherwise, say that there is something wrong with the sky. They would be the first to see such a thing. They have very accurate pointing devices would would detect the first signs of such a change. The dramatic changes that are being described would be of enormous import, not just relegated to ATS discussion.

There is no explanation related to Earth's tilt and orbit which can explain why someone in one location sees the sun rise and set in the wrong location while many (many) others do not.

The Inuit describe something else, the sun rising in a normal location but setting more south (notice that the people here are saying the sun sets more north than it should) than it should. If the Earth's orbit were involved both sunrise and sunset would be dislocated. The Inuit observations have been made by others, they are real. Those others are scientists who have described the effect as a sort of mirage caused by the enchroachment of warm air into arctic regions.
www.isuma.tv...

Originally posted by Human0815

what i think is that maybe the Atmosphere (which act like Glasses) changed so much!

Which was the explanation given by the documentary filmmaker(and climate scientists) who made the movie these people are bastardizing when they refer to 'the inuit'

The scientific explanation is that the warming Arctic air is causing temperature inversions, which in turn cause the light of the sunset to refract so that the sun appears to be setting a few kilometres off-kilter. “There is so much garbage in the air, it’s refraction that’s causing our elders to think our world has tilted,” Kunuk says.

www.theglobeandmail.com...

Also, it is inaccurate to claim these are the findings of 'The Inuit". It is the recorded observation of a handful of Inuit Elders, NOT the entire Inuit population. That s like saying that a handful of old people represent the whole of "America".

reply to post by Phage


Yep, that's pretty much the answer I expected.

So the best explanation for the reports based on solid observation (rather than memory) would be this mirage-effect? Is this the same as the 'refraction' talked about in other threads? Caused by excessive moisture in the atmosphere (please excuse my ignorance and absolute memory of all the threads I've read)?

These optical effects can occur in some place and not in others? Explaining the different viewpoints expressed in the threads?

Originally posted by JonU2
reply to post by Phage

 

Yep, that's pretty much the answer I expected.

So the best explanation for the reports based on solid observation (rather than memory) would be this mirage-effect? Is this the same as the 'refraction' talked about in other threads? Caused by excessive moisture in the atmosphere (please excuse my ignorance and absolute memory of all the threads I've read)?

These optical effects can occur in some place and not in others? Explaining the different viewpoints expressed in the threads?

Yep, that's pretty much the answer I expected.

So the best explanation, supported by actual science and not casual, anecdotal observation, is that people are seeing an optical illusion due to a changing climate, and you reject it out-of-hand?

Originally posted by JonU2
reply to post by Phage

 

Yep, that's pretty much the answer I expected.

So the best explanation for the reports based on solid observation (rather than memory) would be this mirage-effect? Is this the same as the 'refraction' talked about in other threads? Caused by excessive moisture in the atmosphere (please excuse my ignorance and absolute memory of all the threads I've read)?

These optical effects can occur in some place and not in others? Explaining the different viewpoints expressed in the threads?

But that's not really the answer you got. The prospect was posed "What about all of this evidence of gardens and buildings being in the wrong place compared to the sun?" and Phage gave in return "Yes, but what about the larger amounts of evidence of buildings being in exactly the right place compared to the sun?"

He dismissed the correlation with the Inuit Elders' anecdotes via the known explanation of a mirage. And he didn't say "These all result from the same thing", he said

There is no explanation related to Earth's tilt and orbit which can explain why someone in one location sees the sun rise and set in the wrong location while many (many) others do not.

His answer leaves open the Garden & Building evidence, just to a different, more localized explanation. Unnoted geological shift has not been thrown out of the door; only an orbital/axial cause.

reply to post by incrediblelousminds

So the best explanation, supported by actual science and not casual, anecdotal observation, is that people are seeing an optical illusion due to a changing climate, and you reject it out-of-hand?

The climatic conditions required for the effect occur in the arctic with warm air moving into an area of cold air. It is a unique situation. Unless these people reporting a change in the Sun's location are in the arctic this is not what they are seeing.

reply to post by Phage


I see.

Thanks for the clarification.

reply to post by T3hEn1337ened


Today, there was sun. Believe it or not, my homemade sundial is off by an hour. No need to panic just yet, but I think it's about time to go find a more accurate sundial and see if it's off as well. I'm not sure where I might find one, but I'll do my best and report back if and when I find one.

reply to post by incrediblelousminds


Where in my previous statements have I rejected anything?
Do you understand what a question mark is?
I was 'clarifying' what Phage had replied to me.

Please don't interject with baseless accusations........

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by JonU2
reply to post by Phage

 

Yep, that's pretty much the answer I expected.

So the best explanation for the reports based on solid observation (rather than memory) would be this mirage-effect? Is this the same as the 'refraction' talked about in other threads? Caused by excessive moisture in the atmosphere (please excuse my ignorance and absolute memory of all the threads I've read)?

These optical effects can occur in some place and not in others? Explaining the different viewpoints expressed in the threads?

But that's not really the answer you got. The prospect was posed "What about all of this evidence of gardens and buildings being in the wrong place compared to the sun?" and Phage gave in return "Yes, but what about the larger amounts of evidence of buildings being in exactly the right place compared to the sun?"

He dismissed the correlation with the Inuit Elders' anecdotes via the known explanation of a mirage. And he didn't say "These all result from the same thing", he said

There is no explanation related to Earth's tilt and orbit which can explain why someone in one location sees the sun rise and set in the wrong location while many (many) others do not.

His answer leaves open the Garden & Building evidence, just to a different, more localized explanation. Unnoted geological shift has not been thrown out of the door; only an orbital/axial cause.

Yes, that's true but it was still the answer I expected.

I'm, also, still unsure about the 'refraction' effect that was discussed somewhere in one of the threads, this seemed like something that could explain why this occurs to some and not others. If anyone can enlighten me on that, it would be most appreciated.

reply to post by Phage


I would think that, too, if I didn't have a compass.
As I said, it is scientifically impossible, but I'm looking at it every morning for the past few months.
I won't argue the point, though, since all I have is a compass and my own eyes.

Originally posted by T3hEn1337ened
reply to post by T3hEn1337ened

 

Today, there was sun. Believe it or not, my homemade sundial is off by an hour. No need to panic just yet, but I think it's about time to go find a more accurate sundial and see if it's off as well. I'm not sure where I might find one, but I'll do my best and report back if and when I find one.

Ok that hour would be the "spring ahead" portion of Daylight Savings time your seeing affecting the position of the Sun. It should read 11 am at noon.

Been living in the same place for over twenty years and I have lots of plants. I position certain ones throughout the year to get the best sunlight, and I've noticed nothing different at all. My two cents.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by Phage

 

I would think that, too, if I didn't have a compass.
As I said, it is scientifically impossible, but I'm looking at it every morning for the past few months.
I won't argue the point, though, since all I have is a compass and my own eyes.

These days with magnetic north a moving target, it becomes difficult to pin down true north. Keep that in mind when making observations or it will kill your calculations and estimations. The tree line building idea meets a good standard unless the aforementioned localized plate movement has occured, It appears that historic sites are showing up in the proper inclination for the sun to be where is should be. It may be happening where your at but not everywhere. So, I am inclined to believe the locacalized theory proposed pages back in this thread over a major planet axis shift, yet. I do recall Albert Einstein proposed it would happen in our future due to too much ice on the poles on one end. Since I feel it hss happened before, why not again? Consider this, if an axis shift happens it WILL cause Tsunami's and very foul winds. The likes never experienced in this existance of mankind.The flash frozen Mastadon's in Siberia I offer as my suggestion for some proof it is possible and the evidence of a tropical forest in the distant past at the poles suggest it also. So, I expect the next pole shift to be very discernable.

For the last 11 years in the house that I've lived in, the sun comes in and blinds me when I'm sitting in my favorite chair this time of year. It sneaks in through the sunroom window and hits my in the next room. Quite interesting to note that it is doing the same thing at this moment (5:18pm EDT). My kids laugh at me when this happens. I guess if anything changed, it must have done it more than 11 years ago. This is in eastern Pennsylvania. I don't see it happening.

snrRog

All I gotta say is I wish I had some :-)