Anders Breivik and "hidden" Freemasons

Originally posted by JoshNorton
But some people have mentors who teach them the work, so it's quite possible he never saw any degrees but his own.

And those mentors ought to be responsible for their product.

Therefore, with just 4 meetings attended, we can conclude he had mentors to teach him, and whatever they taught him should be subject to review. Did they teach him correctly? Did they mislead him? Did they practice some unmasonic rituals. From time to time we hear of unmasonic rituals performed by masons e.g.

Lodge in limbo as ceremony ends in death

New York
March 16, 2004

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Leaders of New York State's masonic organisation have suspended the Long Island lodge after a man was shot dead during an initiation ceremony.

William James, a new member of the lodge, died last week as he was being initiated into a social club connected to the masons.

A 76-year-old member of the social club, the Fellow Craft Club, was supposed to fire a gun loaded with blanks, but reached into the wrong pocket, drew a loaded handgun and shot James, 47, in the face.

Though masonic initiations are often darkly theatrical, Grand Master Carl Fitje and other masonic experts have said that pulling a gun on someone has never been part of any sanctioned ritual.

The Grand Lodge sets strict prescriptions for all masonic rituals and ceremonies, and "they're not allowed to deviate", Mr Fitje said.

Source: www.theage.com.au...

So it is not impossible that Anders Breivik was introduced to some unmasonic ritual, and was told that it was part of masonic initiation, or masonic teaching, etc..and his mentor would be to blame.

Do we know who his mentors were?

Master masons can and do err, from time to time. But since all their activity is in secret, they are not accountable to anyone. Only when something disastrous happens that can't be hidden, do we even find out about misdeeds. In Anders case, something went seriously wrong.

Originally posted by DRAZIW

So it is not impossible that Anders Breivik was introduced to some unmasonic ritual, and was told that it was part of masonic initiation, or masonic teaching, etc..and his mentor would be to blame.

Do we know who his mentors were?

Master masons can and do err, from time to time. But since all their activity is in secret, they are not accountable to anyone. Only when something disastrous happens that can't be hidden, do we even find out about misdeeds. In Anders case, something went seriously wrong.

It's important to realize that the article you quoted is about a shooting that happened during the initiation into a club that met at a Masonic hall, not a Masonic initiation. Fine point, I know, but critical in this regard. The Masonic ritual is one thing. Individuals could make clubs that required a prerequisite of first having been a Mason, and such clubs could, in fact, rent the Masonic hall for their own meetings, but ultimately that's no different than a York Rite or Scottish Rite or Shrine body meeting at a Blue Lodge.

But back to your other point, if his mentors taught him about Masonry in 2009 and haven't seen him since, how are they to blame for his actions which had nothing to do with Masonry?

reply to post by DRAZIW

This organization was a local side club in which the stupid prank went horribly wrong. This has no bearing on Anders Breivik and him only attending 4-meetings. This was not a sanctioned organization and the members knew this. Don't derail the thread.

Just because he was a bad apple it doesn't necessarily mean he was a bad apple because of his mentors. Remember, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink. Sometimes bad apples slip through the cracks and when they display their behavior we do have a penal system within Freemasonry, defined by each jurisdiction. There is accountability within the ranks. It is not anarchy like you try to allude.

Originally posted by DRAZIW
It also helps to listen to what I did say, and not imagine I was saying something else.

You did not say anything. You quoted material, misinterpreted it, and then refused to acknowledge contradictory evidence to what you asserted.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
It's important to realize that the article you quoted is about a shooting that happened during the initiation into a club that met at a Masonic hall, not a Masonic initiation. Fine point, I know, but critical in this regard. The Masonic ritual is one thing. Individuals could make clubs that required a prerequisite of first having been a Mason, and such clubs could, in fact, rent the Masonic hall for their own meetings, but ultimately that's no different than a York Rite or Scottish Rite or Shrine body meeting at a Blue Lodge.

The point I was trying to indicate there is that this was not a regular Masonic initiation, like what Anders would have undergone the 3 times he went to lodge for EA, FC, MM. But, this was activity "outside" the lodge, participated in by masons, as part of the teaching of this new entrant to Freemasonry. It was the very kind of "mentoring" activity that you suggested Anders would have undertaken himself, since he did not get his training at the lodge meetings !


Some candidates attend as many lodge meetings as the can, as you pointed out, to learn more about the craft, while others rely on "mentors" to teach them outside the lodge.

So, the focus is what was going on outside the lodge with Anders and his training.

But back to your other point, if his mentors taught him about Masonry in 2009 and haven't seen him since, how are they to blame for his actions which had nothing to do with Masonry?

We don't know anything about what went on outside the lodge, for how long he was in training, or what kind of traning he underwent. All that is reported is what went on inside the lodge, and that amounted to 4 sessions, mostly to get the degrees.

The mentors could very well have been "mentoring" him all the time up to the event itself. In fact, the circumstantial evidence is that he was being "mentored" and closely "monitored" up to the minute.

That is because somebody knew he was going to blow up the building, and was there to stop him, but missed by just a few minutes.

Here's the report:

The Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten reports today police sources have confirmed that hours before Anders Behring Breivik launched his deadly attack at a political summer camp on Utøya island on July 22, police had conducted a drill for a “practically identical scenario.”

“Sources within the top level management of the police in Oslo have confirmed to Aftenposten that the drill finished at 15:00 that same Friday,” the newspaper reports. “All of the officers from the anti-terror unit that later took part at the bombsite at the government buildings and went out to Utøya to apprehend Anders Behring Breivik had been training on the exact same scenario earlier the same day and in the days preceding,” writes Andreas Bakke Foss.

The bomb attributed to Breivik went off only 26 minutes after the anti-terror drill finished, according to officials.

Norwegian police characterize the “very similar” drill and its chronological proximity to the “practically identical scenario” as a coincidence.

Source: www.prisonplanet.com...

They missed him by " 26 minutes ".

They had been practicing for days before the event, waiting to catch him, but he gave them the slip.

Obviously, this was an intelligence operation. Two teams of masons playing a game against each other. One playing protagonist, the other playing defender.

Anders was on the protagonist team. As part of his ritual, he was to sneak in, bomb the target, skip over to the island, and kill the innocent folk there.

The defensive team's job was to stop him, before he could carry out the plan.

As part of the ritual, both teams knew what the targets were, and what the intended damage would be.

However, the one thing the teams kept secret from each other was the exact "timing" of actions.

If all went according to plan, Anders would have been apprehended before he did any damage.

However, as Anders points out himself, he experienced unexpected delays in transport, and that changed his own timing, so that HE WAS LATE, by no fault of his own. And the defence team had already gone through their motions and figured he wasn't coming after all.

The police defenders WERE THERE ON TIME. It is only that Anders WAS LATE.

Anders did not plan to be late, God or Nature intervened and changed the timing of events, so that the defence lost the game, and Anders killed his target.

Anders WON.

So, he get's the Knighthood.

Nobody can deny him the Knighthood, because he simply executed the ritual with great efficiency.

That''s why he called police on his cell phone. He called to tell them to pick him up, because he'd beaten them, and was tired of killing these people.

That's the scenario that makes sense to me.

The masonic brothers were too cocky and confident that they would defeat Anders, and he wouldn't make it. But, he obviously had an effective mentor.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

This organization was a local side club in which the stupid prank went horribly wrong. This has no bearing on Anders Breivik and him only attending 4-meetings. This was not a sanctioned organization and the members knew this. Don't derail the thread.

Yes, and Anders drama went horribly wrong too. You see, in order to make someone a "COMMANDER" or a "KNIGHT" or a "PRINCE" etc..they've got to do something to earn that title. The Commander has to command troops of men, the Knight has to fight alone in battle, and so on...Looking at all the great titles mason flag themselves with, it's a marvel how they obtain all these jewels and ranks, with great sounding names, by simply sitting at lodge meetings and listening to lectures, and watching initiation ceremonies.

Just because he was a bad apple it doesn't necessarily mean he was a bad apple because of his mentors. Remember, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink. Sometimes bad apples slip through the cracks and when they display their behavior we do have a penal system within Freemasonry, defined by each jurisdiction. There is accountability within the ranks. It is not anarchy like you try to allude.

There is no accountability. If there was, there would be no people like Anders. There is only accountability outside of Freemasonry, so where the two intersect, there is occasional justice.

Justice cannot be done in this case, until the mentors are revealed, the game plan is publicly exposed, and all the participants get their due rewards for causing the loss of innocent life. That will never happen. The case will quietly disappear from the headlines, and the masons will go back to their rituals. Justice will have to wait until each participant stands before his maker in the afterlife.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by DRAZIW
It also helps to listen to what I did say, and not imagine I was saying something else.

You did not say anything. You quoted material, misinterpreted it, and then refused to acknowledge contradictory evidence to what you asserted.

Wha?

reply to post by DRAZIW


you are agenda driven. You will manufacture most anything to use as a verification of your twisted thoughts. Anyone who believes in your version of "what a mason is" deserves to be misled and misdirected. It's sad that you claim to have any clue whatsoever about the craft.

Learn first, talk later.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

you are agenda driven. You will manufacture most anything to use as a verification of your twisted thoughts. Anyone who believes in your version of "what a mason is" deserves to be misled and misdirected. It's sad that you claim to have any clue whatsoever about the craft.

Learn first, talk later.

The problem here is each mason pretending to know what all other masons are about. Disregarding the truth even when shown the evidence to the contrary. It's ok to defend yourself and your lodge, but to defend all who simply bear the name "Freemason" in far and distant lands, just because it's a name you use, makes it seem very suspicious. It's like defending all men, when in an argument with women about the sexes; knowing full well that in dealing with women not all men are on the level. The same is on display here. All of the ideas you call twisted, are supported by reports. I just link them together. I connect the dots. That's what any investigator does. It doesn't mean it's completely right, it just means this is one plausible scenario. There are other scenarios possible too, like Anders getting a mentor from a foreign land, which is where investigators are currently looking. Now with that handshake, he could probably enter many a clandestine lodge and further his career. The mentor doesn't have to be a Norwegian Freemason, it could be a Freemason from Malta, where a Knights Templar order is said to exist etc..but in the dark and shady world of secret orders, we don't expect to be simply told the truth. Hence this website, where we can come and connect the dots, and others can add their dots to the picture. Review and revise, and eventually, we may come close to the exact truth.


It seems some masons would rather turn off their brains, and accept the Grand Masters assurances that all's well in the lodge.


And no, I don't have any agenda. I go where the story takes me. I'm led by the reports of facts.

Originally posted by DRAZIW

The problem here is each mason pretending to know what all other masons are about. Disregarding the truth even when shown the evidence to the contrary. It's ok to defend yourself and your lodge, but to defend all who simply bear the name "Freemason" in far and distant lands, just because it's a name you use, makes it seem very suspicious."

The bond that links us together is not due to a name, but rather of respect and joy in each other's lives. I know more about most of the Masons on this site and their personal lives than I do of my Colleagues at work, even though we are continents apart. As a non-Mason, you couldn't understand.

Originally posted by Saurus
I know more about most of the Masons on this site and their personal lives than I do of my Colleagues at work, even though we are continents apart. As a non-Mason, you couldn't understand.

And you know I couldn't understand how exactly? Could God understand? Or would he too be clueless? The problem with people' who see with their eyes open, is that they never could understand how the blind make it around in the world. It remains a mystery to them, that the blind could walk down the street perfectly well, and cross at the traffic light without getting knocked down by the passing cars. The difference is, the blind know where they are going, but the sighted only know what they can see !

Originally posted by DRAZIW

And you know I couldn't understand how exactly?

Because it is something that needs to be experienced to be understood.

Could God understand? Or would he too be clueless?

Funny that you should ask. The fact that we pray together, irrespective of religion, is one of the catalysts that creates the bond between us. So, not only would God understand, but He plays a part in creating that bond!

Originally posted by DRAZIW
There are other scenarios possible too, like Anders getting a mentor from a foreign land, which is where investigators are currently looking. Now with that handshake, he could probably enter many a clandestine lodge and further his career. The mentor doesn't have to be a Norwegian Freemason, it could be a Freemason from Malta, where a Knights Templar order is said to exist etc..

You ignorance regarding Masonry is showing again. If a candidate is assigned a mentor (and only candidates get mentors) it is for one purpose; to assist the candidate in learing the ritual needed to progress to the next degree and review lodge room protocol. The mentor, if assigned, is typically an officer in the lodge, an aspiring officer, someone on the ritual committee or a friend who is already a Mason.

He could not travel to a 'foreign land' land to get a different mentor as he is not yet a Mater Mason and is unable to travel to other lodges. Additionally, the ritual will vary from jurisdiction to jurisidiction as will the method of imparting it, e.g. mouth to ear, ritual cipher, etc.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
You ignorance regarding Masonry is showing again. If a candidate is assigned a mentor (and only candidates get mentors) it is for one purpose; to assist the candidate in learing the ritual needed to progress to the next degree and review lodge room protocol. The mentor, if assigned, is typically an officer in the lodge, an aspiring officer, someone on the ritual committee or a friend who is already a Mason.

But, there are 33 degrees. So presumably there are mentors on every level of the ladder, to teach the higher up degree, and until the 32dn is reached, presumably one still needs mentors and instruction.

As far as I can tell, the 33rd degree is the only degree that one can't work towards. Since it's granted to a select few. But for all the lower degrees, there's work to be done towards it, things to learn, mentors to teach one the working of the degree.

He could not travel to a 'foreign land' land to get a different mentor as he is not yet a Mater Mason and is unable to travel to other lodges. Additionally, the ritual will vary from jurisdiction to jurisidiction as will the method of imparting it, e.g. mouth to ear, ritual cipher, etc.

I don't know what is meant by "could not".

I've heard that even a woman became a freemason once, when women were not allowed. She fooled the masons into thinking she was a man, and entered, passed, and raised. Since then masons had to tighten their examination methods. I'd think that it is possible for Anders to get more than one mentor to teach him, though the two mentors may not be aware of each other.

Anders did get his 3rd, so was MM by at least 2009. Since then, I see no reason why he couldn't be mentoring for a higher degree, like Knights Templar.

For freemen, everything is possibe.

The only confusion I see, is that you keep presuming that you know what Anders did or couldn't be doing with his time regarding masonry. Yet, we know Anders was learning to build bombs, to shoot guns, to travel to foreign lands, etc..these things he did do, but in what capacity? Who was leading him around? Who sent him on his missions? Who was "directing" him. Rare is it, that a man will pick himself up, and direct himself around, as if he's been led by an invisible force, by a rope around his neck.

Humans are creatures of habit. Anders underwent too many "changes" in a short period of time, to have motivated himself, and directed himself, to undertake all those experiences.

Newton's 1st law says "A body will continue in its state of motion until acted upon by an external force."

This is a basic law of nature. Humans will continue with their traditional habits, until an "EXTERNAL" force cause them to change.

This is why a man cannot "initiate himself". He needs a master to initiate him.

Anders must have had an external director leading him around. That is his mentor. Maybe he had several.

Originally posted by DRAZIW
But, there are 33 degrees. So presumably there are mentors on every level of the ladder, to teach the higher up degree, and until the 32dn is reached, presumably one still needs mentors and instruction.

Wrong again. You do not need to be proficient in ritual to receive the 4th-33rd degrees. As a matter of fact you can get up to the 32nd in one weekend or even one day. The Scottish Rite degrees are allegorical plays. Additionally, your fixation on this side order and its degree numbering system only further underscores your lack of knowledge regarding Masonry.

As far as I can tell, the 33rd degree is the only degree that one can't work towards. Since it's granted to a select few. But for all the lower degrees, there's work to be done towards it, things to learn, mentors to teach one the working of the degree.

There are no mentors for the Scottish Rite degrees, see above.

I don't know what is meant by "could not".

To travel to another lodge you need a up to date dues card and need to be vouched for by another Mason or your lodge Secretary. To travel to a foreign lodge requires even more leg work on the Secretary's part. He would not have been able to be 'mentored' by anyone but people in his home jurisdiction, with the likelihood of it being anyone from other than his home lodge zero to highly unlikely.

I'd think that it is possible for Anders to get more than one mentor to teach him, though the two mentors may not be aware of each other.

What would be the difference? If they are using a mentoring program in his jursidiction it only deals with learning the ritual to advance to the next degree.

Anders did get his 3rd, so was MM by at least 2009. Since then, I see no reason why he couldn't be mentoring for a higher degree, like Knights Templar.

Because there is no such thing, see above.

The only confusion I see, is that you keep presuming that you know what Anders did or couldn't be doing with his time regarding masonry.

And you are supremely confused because you continue to presume to know anything about Masonry and keep making assinine claims as to what a person you do not know was doing in an orginization that you do not know. See the irony?

Anders must have had an external director leading him around. That is his mentor. Maybe he had several.

Yup, makes total sense, while they were reviewing his Entered Apprentice oath they had the Anarchist's Cookbook open next to them.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Wrong again. You do not need to be proficient in ritual to receive the 4th-33rd degrees. As a matter of fact you can get up to the 32nd in one weekend or even one day. The Scottish Rite degrees are allegorical plays. Additionally, your fixation on this side order and its degree numbering system only further underscores your lack of knowledge regarding Masonry.

The things I know are the necessary things. The things that are not necessary, I don't bother knowing.

To travel to another lodge you need a up to date dues card and need to be vouched for by another Mason or your lodge Secretary. To travel to a foreign lodge requires even more leg work on the Secretary's part. He would not have been able to be 'mentored' by anyone but people in his home jurisdiction, with the likelihood of it being anyone from other than his home lodge zero to highly unlikely.

And yet, I know of travelers who traveled without any of these things.

And you are supremely confused because you continue to presume to know anything about Masonry and keep making assinine claims as to what a person you do not know was doing in an orginization that you do not know. See the irony?

The first 4 words are sufficient, I recognize that part of the statement, it got me about right; but, the rest of your comment makes no sense at all.

Yup, makes total sense, while they were reviewing his Entered Apprentice oath they had the Anarchist's Cookbook open next to them.

Do you know that Anders' first interview at the lodge took only about 5 minutes?

They rushed him through.

Must have had plans for him from the start.

Originally posted by DRAZIW
The things I know are the necessary things. The things that are not necessary, I don't bother knowing.

Since you have repeatedly offered your opinion as fact on this thread I would think that minor issues such as I just pointed out would have been necessary to support the allegations you were making.

And yet, I know of travelers who traveled without any of these things.

Sure you do. Everyone here has an anonymous 'friend' who conveniently supports their baseless points.

The first 4 words are sufficient, I recognize that part of the statement, it got me about right; but, the rest of your comment makes no sense at all.

Let me help you. You keep making claims about a person you do not know (Breivik) regarding an orginization that you do not know (Maosnry). Clear now?

Do you know that Anders' first interview at the lodge took only about 5 minutes?

Source? Context?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Let me help you. You keep making claims about a person you do not know (Breivik) regarding an orginization that you do not know (Maosnry). Clear now?

I don't need to know Breivik. Other people do. I only need their reports.

If you're interested in masonry, and want to know the real truth about what's happening here you should read this article and watch the video:

Albert Pike’s 3 World Wars: Oslo Attack Connection?

Source:
www.oldthinkernews.com...

Not all masons know what Freemasonry is about. Like the video says, Freemasonry is a "host organization" for many other parasitic orders, used to carry out their agenda. And the good decent Masons are clueless. Obviously, Anders Breivik was carrying out an agenda that is unmasonic. That's what the organization is used for. Like Pike says, the Blue lodge is but the outer court. They know nothing of the inner court.

Yet, way back in 1871 Albert Pike wrote to the Italian revolutionary Giuseppe Mazzini, and told him of the 3 world wars that were to come. Pike describes the three wars accurately, and Breivik is part of the start of the final 3rd world war. You can read it for yourself at the link above.

Why do I need to know anything? It's all out there being reported by others, I just edit, select, and report here.

Originally posted by DRAZIW
Yet, way back in 1871 Albert Pike wrote to the Italian revolutionary Giuseppe Mazzini, and told him of the 3 world wars that were to come. Pike describes the three wars accurately, and Breivik is part of the start of the final 3rd world war. You can read it for yourself at the link above.

Why do I need to know anything? It's all out there being reported by others, I just edit, select, and report here.

Because by not knowing that the Pike/Mazzini Three World Wars Letter is a Hoax, it makes you look like an idiot for blindly repeating it.

I am surprised the "hidden" Freemason Andrew Breivik was not wearing his Micky Mouse ears when he went out that day.

You know that weasel armed magician from fantasia Hermes Tris Magistus?
(Order of the Golden Dawn)
700-year-old painting looks like Mickey Mouse found in Malta
news.bbc.co.uk...

An amazing 700-year-old picture that looks just like Mickey Mouse has been found in an Austrian church.

LoL the Golden Dawn adapted its magic rituals from Freemasonry.

So is Disney's club 33 about Freemasonry, what about Micky?

Or are they "unofficial"?

Sorry looks like the gig is up

QUICK EVERYONE BACK BEHIND THE GREEN DOOR