Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox

Originally posted by haarvik
All you bleeding hearts forget one important factor. Without this capitalist society, this country and it's bounty would not exist. The foundation of our country is the basis for what you have now. If you are so discontented and disgusted with those of us who adhere to those founding principals, you are my friend more than welcome to LEAVE MY COUNTRY!

Perhaps you and your type should leave OUR WORLD and take your illusion of work and slavery with you?

reply to post by dolphinfan


So in other words you are speaking from an experience that doesn't pertain to today's realities. What was possible to do forty years ago is pretty much not within the realms of reality today, because the economy you are measuring against doesn't exist anymore.

Thirty or forty years ago, there were far fewer people competing for far more jobs, there was a lot more wealth floating around the lower tiers of society. But the top 1% have vacuumed all that up and left nothing for everyone else.

If you tried to repeat your success in today's economy, chances are you'd fail, no matter how hard you worked, because the jobs aren't there to pay the people you need to buy your product.

You live in the past and couldn't hack it today's economy if you had to start from scratch with your lack of understanding of today's realities.

The whole crux of the matter is that since the great social engineering that took place in the 60's, the divide between rich and poor has steadily increased. Prior to that one would have to be just about dead before they would accept any sort of assistance. People like my father and grandfather who worked countless hours trying to provide for their families. They didn't take handouts. When my parents divorced, my mother had to take welfare. But back then you had to work in order to get it. If you couldn't find a job, they found one for you. If you weren't willing to work, you didn't get assistance.

Now we have class wars because those of us who don't buy into the whole scam are sick and tired of supporting the lazy. There are a ton of people like me. We didn't settle for anything. We worked, sacrificed and scratched our way to what we wanted. If I were to become a multimillionaire tomorrow you bet your a$$ I would be taking it easy.

In the 80's I dated a single mother who was on welfare. I would find jobs for her and she would not take them because she made more on welfare than working. I once asked her if she had any pride. She said pride had nothing to do with it. It was her right to collect welfare as a US citizen. Needless to say that didn't last long. Those of you who support the notion of the poor welfare recipient have bought into the whole social project hook, line and sinker. I challenge you to sit back, evaluate your life and actually put a plan down on paper to better yourself without assistance. It is amazing what you can do when you have all of the facts in front of you. How do you become rich? How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


If we did, there wouldn't be any money to support you and you would be in worse shape than you are now!

reply to post by DZAG Wright

Thats right, these self rightous red neck KuKlutz Klan right wingnut wacko Nazi eugenicists, full of their seething vile hatred and covetousness need to fling THEMSELVES into the fire before the Owl God. And good riddance with them, already.

reply to post by simone50m


You're right. Poverty and wealth are related to the times we live in and today wealth is exponentially less concentrated than it was, certainly in the middle ages.

How dare you consider it to be my desire to have a candid articulation of the definition of poverty to be anything by reasonable? Since I am paying for services for the poor, don't I have a right to know what is considered poor or is it none of my business? Perhaps fully knowing the definition of poor I would be demanding my tax levels go up.

Oh, I forgot. I am supposed to take the government's word for it. Funny how there are folks who won't take the government's word on anything - we landed on the moon, we had nothing to do with 911, we thought there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Kennedy was killed by a lone gunman, UFO's don't exist, completely believe everything they tell you about the poor.

reply to post by simone50m

In 1995 almost 800 people died from having no Air Conditioning.
www.press.uchicago.edu...

Why don't you go put one of your spawn outside today on some nice black pavement and leave IT there.

Nobody died from not having A/C. That is a falsity, and I know it is from your source, not from you directly.

People with other complicating factors, in extreme temperatures, with little or no mobility, might have died as a result of the combination of factors, but a human being can easily survive in 110 degree heat, as long as they have basic clean water.

If we were to believe people were dying from lack of A/C, then Ethiopia, Somalia, and Southern Mexico should not have any populations whatsoever. Since A/C is only about 100 years old, I wonder how all those previous generations were able to survive.

I think this is exactly the reason this article is important. People really believe crap like that. Some people really believe you can't live without A/C and an XBox and a Cellphone.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Wow being poor sounds cool. I can't afford an xbox or airconditioning. How do I get to be poor like this. Is the more poorer the better?

reply to post by haarvik


Personally, I'm sick and tired of supporting the lazy rich with tax breaks and subsidies.

I suppose Paris Hilton "works" hard for her money, as does Donald Trump, and let's not forget the "investment" bankers who work soooo hard for $20-40K per minute.

If you want to vent outrage, try picking the correct target: most of the poor would jump at the chance to work for a decent, livable wage.

When you find people who turn down work, it usually isn't because they're lazy, but that working for less than a livable wage just doesn't make sense if it costs you healthcare or puts you worse off than not working.

reply to post by getreadyalready
It looks to me like you have revealed yourself as a Globalist, pushing the maximum austerity on us. That we should live like those dying in Ethiopia, sitting naked under a leaf and eating a bug if we find one. How about if I come over your house insead, while no ones home. Dressed in all black with my burgler kit bag. I'd rather do that.

This debate will go on and on forever. Neither side will see the valid points of the other.

I have been homeless twice. I have been from bottom to top and back again several times. I have received unemployment twice in my life, and even then only for a few months. I have NEVER taken welfare. You can stereotype me all you want. It will not change my views. Because unlike a lot of other people, I have lived both sides of the coin. My views are not based on being on the outside looking in, but rather the opposite. Our Constitution laid the groundwork for our country. Anyone who supports ideals and legislation that is contradictory to that document should be tried for treason. We are who we are because of it.

Originally posted by ghondon

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by ghondon

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

Making assumptions and basing policy on those assumptions is an extremely slippery slope. All rich folks were not crooks in the same manner that all great atheletes are not taking juice.

Improve laws that root out corruption if thats the issue, but based on the Obama class warfare schemes, the rich are not folks like Warren Buffett or the Kennedys. The rich are folks like Joe Blow who owns the plumbing supply store down the street and declares all of his business income as personal income.

Go ahead and take all the money from everyone who has more than $500M and see where your at. Not too hard to find that place because its where you are right now.

The problem is institutionalized entitlement. Lets all realize that many of the "poor" folks with the video games get:

Free medical care via Medicaid
Free or subsidized housing
Subsizided utilities including internet in some places
Free job training
Free schooling
Free mass transit passes
Food stamps and WIC cash

All of these things being paid for by others and they still have more than 1 TV and a cell phone? At least be honest. You don't like the fact that there are really rich folks and you want to take their money away. You want to define "fair". Thats cool, just be honest about it.

I know a family that pretty much has every single one of these and you need to knock off free job training. These worthless bums want nothing to do with free job training LOLOLOLOLOL..... Why would they ever go to work when they can sit at home smoke PoT, cigs, enjoy there DVR TV have block BBQs every weekend with other welfare abusers. They have a 47inch LCD 720p tv a nice computer with a 19 inch flat screen. A nice 2006 car limited edition. 2 airconditioners. To top it all off they grow marijuana and have the state pay there electricity to grow it. All the while selling there marijuana making 20k a year on there own plus the free 1400 in cash/foodstamps they get a month. Free medical care which they both use to get narcotics left and right. there whole neighboorhood is like this almost every last one of them about 100 plus people. Then they sit around and bitch about the government and how everything is someone elses fault and no one gave them an oppurtunity. They hate the police hate any sense of government the very own government that feeds them and allows to them to chill and play World of Warcraft all day, and watch DVR all day. They have 2 kids who they are breeding to be welfare abusers. They went and took the GeD tests failed and instead of using there free classes just got high some more.
These leechers i feel are far more common then the ones who need welfare and activly try to get off welfare. This family has been at this for over 3 years all the while making money on the side and not reporting a dime. Here i sit struggling for a job every day unable to play the video games i want to play because i dont have time and i cant afford them. I guess im just ranting some and venting. But its infuriating I peronal feel its time for some social hygene in this country.....The tippy top people and the bottome leeches need to be told this is not ok anymore give us our money back and go to some island with the rest of your greedy kind. I personaly feel the welfare abuser are just as bad as the super rich. All they think about is themselves and how they can take advantage of other hard working humans.

The amount of money my state spends on social services every day is disgusting ill give you a hint we are the state that is in the absolute worst debt in the nation......

So you use a family of four living off 37K per year in the State of California as an example? You state they make 20K selling weed and get about 17K in assistance. Does that sound as if they're living it up to you? Are they taking frequent trips and cruises?

Everything you state sounds like what someone who is on the outside looking in would think.

DId you forget the free medical care i pay 300 a month for health insurance tack another 3600 on to that they have a family of 4 so take some more on that mine is for 2..... I would say spending multiple hours playing video games and watching there favorite shows is better then im doing. Though i get to go on vacations as i work hard for my money and save it when i make a bunch. Im unemployed now and will finishing retorting to this later as i have 2 interviews this afternoon i must prepare for... So they make 20k free a year of the state and have not looked or tried to get a job in years.... I would say thats chilling and taking it easy off the backs of those who pay taxes wouldnt you? Wouldnt it be nice if you could just chill and play video games and watch tv all day? Or go hiking or do many other things that dont invovle alot of money but you have to have free time to do? It would be vastly differnt if they were doing something to better themselves but there not they are just staying idle enjoying there entitlements much like the rest of there neighboorhood.

You're hitting on something with the underlined. All of us working people have been duped and fooled into giving up this wonderful opportunity to enjoy the Earth in it's natural beauty in order to work for artificial pleasures.

Why do you really think the moochers are victimized? Because they threaten to destroy what someone (elites, Satan, someone) has worked hard to build. A artificial world where instead of people enjoying time to think and relax and grow, we have to work/slave 40 hours a week to enjoy cable.

reply to post by simone50m


You don't need your burglar kit bag, that will just get you shot. Instead, how about you just knock on the door, and I will help you in any way that I can.

No, I am not a globalist, maybe you should start back at the beginning and read my posts. I think the article is accurate, I think it is a sign of the success we have had in the US, and I think we should be proud that the poorest among us, still live in relative comfort compared to the rest of the world.

Just because I point out the ridiculousness of some claims, like living without A/C is fatal, does not mean that I don't celebrate the success and lifestyle of the US.

To reitierate: come in the front door with honesty and need = I will help with everything I have; come sneaking in any other way = lead poisoning and a shallow grave in the swamp behind my house.

reply to post by apacheman


It's not their fault their parents worked hard to earn that money. Look at Warren Buffet. He started investing at a young age and now he has it made. So he's evil because he was smart? So many other examples like this that just make your position look ignorant. While I agree that the banking elite and the likes of the fed are the problem to most issues, the people who worked hard and smart to achieve wealth are not evil. I don't feel they need to give back, pay it forward or whatever the new buzzword is for spreading the wealth. They earned it, no one else did.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


this sounds like entitlement disguised as sarcasm.

i will be the first to admit, although i do not consider myself poor, others might believe me to have a lower class lifestyle. still i am not in denial. if my family and i got rid of our cable, cell phone, new clothes and gadgets, eating out, move to a smaller apartment for a year or two, vacations, and was just more frugal in general, my family and i would be able to save a significant amount of money for a sizable down payment on a house in just a matter of years. the problem is i and people in my generation are spoiled and want everything even if we should have our priorities elsewhere. we are victims of materialism.

Reality check:

One step below what is described in the OP is homelessness.

It is a very long fall to the next level, with nothing in between.

TV's, and household appliances are added during good times of relative prosperity, but once the power goes out for failure to pay a bill, selling off the appliances is rarely the next step-- instead they try to hold on to what they have and skip mortgage payments or rent-- hoping for recovery.

Once the power or water is off, Child Protective Services can and will step in and either assist with relief to help pay the bills, or break up the family.

If no financial help is forthcoming-- the family loses all, and lives in a car. There may be some housing available, but many places have waiting lists.

Once an adult is homeless for more than a few months, the likelihood of getting off the street and staying off the street is very small. That becomes chronic homelessness. The change in the person's emotional state is usually debilitating for life. No one-- family, friends, co-works, neighbors, Church reaching out to save them-- it changes a person.

That change which debilitates is not a mental illness-- it is an awareness. They know that trying and failing is a merciless event. No one who can help, will help. What little care there is is only from others who know that nothing can be done, and no help will come.

Instead, people pass by talking on their latest i-Phone, sneer, "Get a job!" never guessing the person already works 40 hours a week. Before they can even rent an apartment or a room, they must first pay the utilities which they owed before being foreclosed or evicted. They have mountainess debts. Close family members are embarrassed, and say, "I don't what to do. He/she will just have to learn how to manage money-- oh, and by the way, did I tell you I think I know which model of this years BMW I want?... Maybe when Jack and I get back from France, we'll pick out the color..."

So, when the parent decides not to sell the child's x-box and the TV, sleepless that the decision seems to be forcing homelessness any week-- whenever the creditors come knocking... one might have a little compassion.

I work with homeless. I know their stories.

So how does one apply for a job, when your address is your car or a camp site in the woods on the edge of town? You cannot get a PO Box without a street address. Employers notice this and assume the person is a drug dealer, an alcoholic or deranged. Showing up at an interview with his or her "rig" (a backpack with everything they cannot afford to replace, but need) is a dead giveaway, but if they leave it at the campsite-- a newly homeless person-- usually a youth-- will help him or herself.

No TV, no electricity, one cannot even read or write in the dark-- only sits and feel one's uselessness-- knowing one was considered disposable by all those who they loved and knew. There is no socialization or entertainment in the dark, much less in the light of day when it freezing or scorching. So, the typical human will seek escape-- alcohol or drugs. And all the while, society who has no idea of their plight-- and takes no responsibility for watching them fall and not offering a hand, sits in judgment, saying, "They must have done something to deserve this. Someone should do something about these lazy bums! Surely they must all be rapists prostitutes and thieves-- we need to be protected from them."

And the homeless man or woman, knows that is how they are seen.

And it all started because the had an x-box and a TV just before they fell to the streets-- our streets.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


About time someone hit the nail on the head! You got it exactly right. Today's generation is all about gotta have it now. Why do you think there is so much credit card debt? If one wanted to be better off, then make the sacrifices that allow you to do better down the road. There are books galore about how to increase your wealth. Most of the time you have the wealth, but you have been conditioned by society that you NEED certain things when you do not. If I don't have cash for something I don't buy it. I evaluate my finances monthly. I keep track of everything I spend. I can tell you at any given time what my bank accounts contain down to the penny at any given time. When you can get to that point, you will find you have more money than you thought!

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
It is interesting to see the divide and how I believe those arguing against this thread are not applying critical thought, but rather approaching it from a highly emotional stance. This of course is my opinion on the previous discussions within the thread.

I wish to introduce some slightly older items that support the OP. Here is an article from December of 2010.

Funding cuts leave many without home heating assistance

What I want you to do is click the article above. Now, the point here is to examine the photo. In that photo we see a woman, who is holding up what appears to be her heating bills. They are high and she has been seeking assistance to pay for those bills.

What is shocking it would seem this picture, and this is purely speculative as we do not know Raymeica Kelly's true financial situations, supports the OPs assertion. Mrs. Kelly asserted in the article that "..she was unemployed for a year before recently landing a job. But her bills have stacked up while she was unemployed, and she needs the assistance."

It truly is a hard situation to be in. In late 2008 I left the military hoping to venture back into the private sector. I couldn't have picked a worse time of course to do so. I remained unemployed for a year, while bills stacked up and payments fell behind. The difference is unlike Mrs. Kelly, you wouldn't find a picture that shows a large screen TV, an X Box or heck my own place to call my own.

I downsized and became frugal. I sold the fun stuff. I "toughed" it out in one bedroom, in which I paid rent with the little money I had and helped pay the utility bills. Even after I landed a job, it took me nearly two years to get a good balance of fun and wants against needs. If things were to get tough again for me, you can bet this computer and the TV I own (in 2008 I made a promise to myself that I will never put anything on credit again), will be sold and extras such as cable, the cellphone, internet service, the extra food items that are not really needed for sustenance will be all cut out of my wants.

Contrast this with a good friend of mine. Has no job, maintains about the same lifestyle as me on government assistance, food stamps, a 20 hour/week job paying around $12-13 an hour and the $1300 for child support she is pulling in. Roughly, if I add up her work hours, the low taxes she pays, the child support, food stamps, and all other government entitlements she is receiving it comes to about $28-32K/year (this would be her disposable income if food stamps and other benefits could be rolled into hard cash). Not bad for only putting in part time work. Of course, she has her challenges (single parents do, but life choices have consequences.)

I put in 40+ hours a week and make around $30/hour. Yet her disposable income and my disposable income (before we spend it on rent/food/anything) is nearly the same. I watch roughly 40-45% of my paycheck (taxes and paid benefits) whisk away before it even hits my bank while she enjoys payments to be a citizen and falls into the category of not paying taxes and receiving more money back than she has put into.

But you are right. Let us weep for those "poor" that this OP is referring to. Is what the OPs article depicts a blanket view of Modern Poverty? I believe it is, inasmuch here in the United States. Especially when we use the Government's own term and definition of "poverty". Are there worse cases of poverty? Yes, absolutely.

I couldn't wait to get to your post because I wanted to expose how easily people who at the best are on the outside looking in, and at the worst are liars, portray someone elses situation.

Lets go to the underlined when you compare your situation with a friends.

I'll take it that you are just someone interpreting her situation the wrong way and not intentionally lying. Since I work in welfare and employment i'm aware of the laws.
1. If she works about 20 hours per week at $12-$13 per hour her foodstamps are minimum. She may only be getting $20 worth per month.
2. If she's receiving $1300 per month in child support, that would totally disqualify her for foodstamps unless she has 20 children.
3. She also qualifies for no (unless she has a large number of children) public housing assistance because of the $1300 in child support.
4. Her working those 20 hours per week and getting $1300 per month in child support disqualifies her from any government assistance.

Now someone reading this post from you, because it was well typed and seemed sincere, would think that woman is mooching off society. When actually, perhaps you misinterpret her situation, she doesn't qualify and doesn't receive anything or at most $20 per month of EBT.

So here you are making $40 per hour....and you're all in the purse of someone earning $13 per hour part time and receiving child support.

You wouldn't happen to be Rush Limbaugh would you?

reply to post by conspiracy nut
And are you sitting there and forcing your family to as well, during this deadly heatwave, in no Air Conditioning, because you kinds are trying to brainwash us all (for the Globalists) that extreme austerity is GOOD, so that, the rich can stay richer?

All I know is, anyone who comes and tries to take my AC away, because they think only the rich should have it, I'll be waiting with a large cerrated kitchen knife in hand. Behind my door. with a Hannibal mask on.

I grew up without all the things the OP mentioned. And that was during the recession in the 1980's. Sometimes, if it were not for free lunch at school, my brother and I wouldn't have eaten that day. Summer was the worst. No air conditioning. I believe now it's considered child abuse not to have air conditioning in areas like mine.

If the average family has those things it is because most of them were working good jobs and paid cash for them when they could. Some of us are having to sell our stuff to keep a roof over our heads. Don't lump in the hardworking families (like mine) with the ones who bleed the system dry. Some of us actually contribute to those safety nets. My husband could've ridden out the unemployment check extensions, but didn't. He took a minimum wage labor job after working at up to three times that amount as a quality technician. Not all of us are sitting on our butts playing xbox.

I am not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination according to American standards, but we do have our needs (and a few of our wants)taken care of. That's where people went astray. They've confused needs with wants. If we want something and can't pay cash for it, we don't get it. Period. People were trying to keep up with the Joneses when they can't even keep up with the Clampetts.

I knew we were in trouble six years ago when a banker offered us a credit card and didn't understand when we told him we believe in the 100% down plan. He really didn't understand the concept of paying cash in full for something or only getting what you can afford outright. I had to break it down into smaller concepts for him.

Am I driving a new car. No. Mine's sixteen years old. My husband's is now a classic. Both cars need bodywork (new paint) but are mechanically sound. And we have something many of our family members do not, free and clear car titles. All we have installment wise is our mortgage. We lived that way before the recession, having learned the lesson early in our marriage. We're not able to give our kids the hottest gadgets or buy them even a crappy car, but we've given them fiscal responsibility. I think that's more important.

It always kills me when I see a person spend five bucks on a pack of smokes and then complain there's no money for food or electricity. Bull. There's money, it's just that their priorities are screwed up. And I think in essence that's what the post was about. Priorities. Maybe this is good for people. It will keep us grounded in reality.