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Why God's Word The Bible IS Infallible!

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posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:07 PM
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Is there a counterpart to LOL, something for, Yelling, NO, out loud?

(this remark is in response to the answer from KJV, to IAMIAM's question)
edit on 26-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
Is there a counterpart to LOL, something for, Yelling, NO, out loud?

(this remark is in response to the answer from KJV, to IAMIAM's question)
edit on 26-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Unfortunatly no... As far as i know, im sure im not up to date on my urban acronyms...

But 40 pages of this should make for some decent debate... Notice i said "should"

Sadly since a certian person jumped onto this thread, the debate has turned silly... At least the others gave up when they had no where to turn... This one just thinks hes always right, which anyone can easily prove otherwise


edit on 26-9-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



Heres another one just for fun...
29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
yet.. john states clearly...
17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.


Thanks for FINALLY getting back on topic! Good question too by the way.

Jacob is not the only one who had seen God and lived in the old testament!
Hos 12:4-5
Deut 24:13 and 30:16-18
most of the prophets too.
Rom 10:1-10 for more.

and a few more too!.

Now you have to wonder, is this a contradiction? ...or are you just missing a simple basic fact found in the Bible? Which of course is what the problem is 9 times out of 10 with any Bible question.

But to answer you, No. No one has seen God the FATHER face to face and lived. The only one who even came close would be Moses, and even then Moses only saw God from behind in the cleft of the rock.

So this begs the question, what are these people seeing who claim to see God? The answer is obvious. They are seeing God in the form of flesh...or in other words....

1 Timothy 3:16
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

God appeared in the form of the "Angel of the Lord" in the old testament many times as well. Don't you remember Jacob was WRESTLING? That was flesh to flesh, face to face anyway you look at it!

This basic truth you are missing is the trinity.
God the father is the soul: Gen 2:7, 1 Thess 5:23, Gen 1:26....ect, which read.
God the Holy Spirit is a ghost: (no verses needed....you can't see spirits/ghosts obviously, just as you can't see the soul.)
God the Son: Which is Jesus Christ. The Son of God, who is 100% equal to God (John 10:30, Phil 2:16, John 5:46 )


Thousands of people saw God face to face during Jesus ministry and they all lived just as Jacob did. But of course, if you don't believe the Holy Bible and refuse to acknowledged the trinity, then yes, this would be a error. So are you right or is God right?



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by KJV1611
Jeremiah most certainly could have "said this", he just didn't "write it". Zechariah was the one that wrote it!
Hints the:

Then was fulfilled that which was SPOKEN by Jeremy the prophet
not written.


I agree Jeremiah could have said it. However, "could have" is a hole which many things can fill.

Matthew could have been inspired to make the error that a later prophecy could be fulfilled.

For example...




25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. 33Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


Genesis 1



1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.


And the end...




8And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. 9And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 10And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 11And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.



Thoughts?

With Love,

Your Brother


edit on 26-9-2011 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


care to explain why you don't think the explanation is good? Or are you just hitting and running as fast as you can?...troll



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



This one just thinks hes always right, which anyone can easily prove otherwise
The Holy Bible is always right. I am wrong more often than not!



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 



Matthew could have been inspired to make the error that a later prophecy could be fulfilled.

For example...

I just can't buy this premise. If I did then I would be denying the word of God in multiple places. Here for one:

Psalms 12:6-7
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Either God's words are pure AND preserved OR they are not. Either God lied, or we really do have ALL God's words that he wants us to have. I dare not play any sort of speculation when dealing with God's words. I hold to Martin Luther's mantra: "Sola scriptura" Scripture only!

Either ALL scripture is given by inspiration or it is not.

2 TIMOTHY 3:16
"ALL scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

That means every single word, even the periods and punctuation.

Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one JOT or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

This is one thing in the world of Christianity we cannot budge on, at all. Either the Bible speaks true about itself, or it does not. No room for doubts with this subject. For if just one item is wrong, just one topic is wrong, then the WHOLE Bible is trash. Its been 3,500 years now....and has yet to be proven wrong. But has been proven right and changed millions of peoples lives for the better.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by KJV1611
I just can't buy this premise. If I did then I would be denying the word of God in multiple places. Here for one:

This is one thing in the world of Christianity we cannot budge on, at all. Either the Bible speaks true about itself, or it does not. No room for doubts with this subject. For if just one item is wrong, just one topic is wrong, then the WHOLE Bible is trash. Its been 3,500 years now....and has yet to be proven wrong. But has been proven right and changed millions of peoples lives for the better.


All things are possible unto God my friend.

Your could is just as much speculation as mine. If Christians cannot fathom a world where God speaks directly to his children, not needing any book, then I suppose they will get the God they choose.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



Jacob is not the only one who had seen God and lived in the old testament!
Hos 12:4-5
Deut 24:13 and 30:16-18
most of the prophets too.
Rom 10:1-10 for more


Which means there is a contradiction... or even an error within this statement... Who was correct? The writers of those passages who claim to see God... Or John who claims no one has seen God.


But to answer you, No. No one has seen God the FATHER face to face and lived. The only one who even came close would be Moses, and even then Moses only saw God from behind in the cleft of the rock.


So again... This person either lied... or this is simply an error making the bible in fact... Fallible


So this begs the question, what are these people seeing who claim to see God? The answer is obvious. They are seeing God in the form of flesh...or in other words....

1 Timothy 3:16
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

God appeared in the form of the "Angel of the Lord" in the old testament many times as well. Don't you remember Jacob was WRESTLING? That was flesh to flesh, face to face anyway you look at it!


As i've said before i couldn't care less what paul had to say about anything...


This basic truth you are missing is the trinity.
God the father is the soul: Gen 2:7, 1 Thess 5:23, Gen 1:26....ect, which read.
God the Holy Spirit is a ghost: (no verses needed....you can't see spirits/ghosts obviously, just as you can't see the soul.)


The basic truth you are missing is the the trinity is barely talked about in the bible... it is completely vague. Jesus and his diciples knew nothing of this trinity, it was introduced 300+ years later... The word trinity doesn't even exist in the bible...


God the Son: Which is Jesus Christ. The Son of God, who is 100% equal to God (John 10:30, Phil 2:16, John 5:46 )


Incorrect...

I and my father are one does not mean I and my father are equal.... And within John 10 just before that quote, he denies being God...

And just because Moses wrote of him, does not make him God either...

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I

Jesus was not God.... he says it himself. Or are you like the others in this thread on your side of this debate? Do you deny his words?




posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Akragon
 



This one just thinks hes always right, which anyone can easily prove otherwise
The Holy Bible is always right. I am wrong more often than not!


I'll agree with half of this statement...

Unfortunatly i still don't agree the bible is always right...




posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 



All things are possible unto God my friend.

Your could is just as much speculation as mine. If Christians cannot fathom a world where God speaks directly to his children, not needing any book, then I suppose they will get the God they choose.
Not so sure about that either....

Matthew 11:13
"For all the prophets and the law prophesied UNTIL JOHN"

Luke 16:16
"The law and the prophets were UNTIL JOHN: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

Now I do believe God still talks with his children, no doubt about that. But all revelation has already been fulfilled with the completion of the Bible. So if God talks to you and what ever he says goes against the Bible, I would then try the spirits and see just who it is that is talking to you.

I for one have never heard God speak to me in an audible voice, but He has on many occasions lead me to the place I needed to be at for either safety, spreading the gospel, or for comfort to another Christian.

But whatever we as Christians experience in the spiritual realm, if it goes against the teachings of the Bible, then it is a false and misleading or lying spirit.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 

So are you right or is God right?
How about, a lot of the so-called history in the OT is myth, and the NT is right?



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I
Jesus was not God.... he says it himself. Or are you like the others in this thread on your side of this debate? Do you deny his words?


Your other comments were not worth dealing with as they were your personal opinions. But since you posted some scripture, I will deal with these comments.

You have to remember that Jesus was born as a man, in the flesh, and experienced the same emotions, desires, temptations and passions as we do. When he spoke of His father being more powerful than Him, He was referring to his flesh, not His divinity.

Jesus is clearly just as much God as the Great I AM in Exodus. One in the same.

You know this because of the many times Jesus did claim equality with God. Matter of fact...why do you think the Jews wanted Jesus dead....what crime did He comment that was so bad that they wanted Him dead......I"ll tell you as it appears the Pharisees had more Biblical sense than you do. They wanted Jesus dead because Jesus called Himself....wait for it.................GOD!.

John 5:18
"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself EQUAL with God."

Chew on that for a while. I have hundreds more!

P.s. I really am enjoying being back on topic! Thanks for having the courage (if not the intelligence) to ask some serious questions! I see bogo hasn't tried yet. Must be looking up some more words in his thesaurus



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



How about, a lot of the so-called history in the OT is myth, and the NT is right?
......my God man...do not post here any more
Most people hold to the old testament being true and the new testament is the one that is false! I rarely here the other way around!


And your proof, or reason for this personal opinion is....?

I



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 

Most people hold to the old testament being true and the new testament is the one that is false!
You should try hanging out with Christians.
The OT could be right in this one instance, if you interpret it to mean that Jacob wrestled with a person who seemed god-like in that he could dislocate Jacob's hip. The fact that people make it out to mean that it has to be God, makes it a myth.
From Wikipedia,

The main characters in myths are usually gods, supernatural heroes and humans.
As sacred stories, myths are often endorsed by rulers and priests and closely linked to religion or spirituality.
In the society in which it is told, a myth is usually regarded as a true account of the remote past.


edit on 27-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


So I guess you are saying Samson, Noah's flood, creation, Jonah, Heaven, Hell, Daniel, Adam&Eve, and the story of Exodus are all myths too huh?



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 
I think the topic for right now was the idea of; Do we see God?, and Have biblical characters seen God?
Your answer seems to be that God can be anything.
If you want to attribute everything as God, then the idea of there being a God is trivialized to where you end up with; no, there actually being this glorious God is irrelevant since we want to say we are special for having had direct contact with God.
To me, if that is the way you want it, and you write a book about all your meetings with the one and only God, and call that book holy, well, I would call it myth. You can fix that by saying none of those were really God, but various persons filling in the position, for the moment, of God's representative.


edit on 27-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



Your other comments were not worth dealing with as they were your personal opinions.


Incorrect...

So basically what you're saying is you don't want to stay on topic when someone can prove you wrong? This is not my opinion this is a direct contradiction... John said NO MAN has seen God... Others claim to have seen him... This is not an opinion... do i really need to post the definition of Opinion for you?

What say you?


You have to remember that Jesus was born as a man, in the flesh, and experienced the same emotions, desires, temptations and passions as we do.


This is the second thing that you've said that is correct... congratulations!


Jesus is clearly just as much God as the Great I AM in Exodus. One in the same.


Incorrect...

Prove your words... show me where he said i am God.


You know this because of the many times Jesus did claim equality with God.


Incorrect.... Again prove what you say. This is a blatant lie...


Matter of fact...why do you think the Jews wanted Jesus dead....what crime did He comment that was so bad that they wanted Him dead


He claimed to be the son of God, the jews assumed (as you are doing) that he said he was God when he did not... And the son of God, that hung around with poor/sick/disfugured people was dispicable to them.


I"ll tell you as it appears the Pharisees had more Biblical sense than you do.


Uh huh... let me show you your "biblical sense" (or lack there of) in your next few statements...


They wanted Jesus dead because Jesus called Himself....wait for it.................GOD!.


Liar... prove he said that.


John 5:18
"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself EQUAL with God."


So here is your proof... Read the rest of the chapter and stop cherry picking. This is john making this statement not Jesus... Just as john said, the word became flesh and dwelt amoung us... which Jesus also did not say... Your biblical knowledge is flawed, just like your logic.

Look at this passage where he denies being God... i know it might be too long for your attention span... but try to read it, though im sure you won't clue in.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30I and my Father are one.

31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


Notice the question mark?

Notice two specific entities being spoken of in this passage... Of course you don't... You are blind


Chew on that for a while. I have hundreds more!


Bring it...


I really am enjoying being back on topic! Thanks for having the courage (if not the intelligence) to ask some serious questions! I see bogo hasn't tried yet. Must be looking up some more words in his thesaurus


Yes, its just a shame that your answers have not improved since our last encounter. You still cherry pick with the best of them. You still have flaws in your logic, and do not read what is written... You assume, which is why i will easily prove your answers wrong like i always have. You also have no right to critisize Bogo, he has given logical rational answers which you have yet to demonstrate on this thread, let alone this forum.

And btw the topic isn't Jesus was/wasn't God... The topic is "the infallibility of the bible" which you declined to comment on... which is of course... expected.


edit on 27-9-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 

but...you didn't disprove anything I said...? You just placed more worthless opinions in this thread with too many opinions as it is. I don't understand your point? You didn't disprove a thing I wrote with scripture.

You didn't even come close. How can you even discusses Biblical matters if you obviously have no clue whatsoever as to what the scriptures are? I'm curious, what exactly do you think are the scriptures?



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Akragon
 

but...you didn't disprove anything I said...? You just placed more worthless opinions in this thread with too many opinions as it is. I don't understand your point? You didn't disprove a thing I wrote with scripture.

You didn't even come close. How can you even discusses Biblical matters if you obviously have no clue whatsoever as to what the scriptures are? I'm curious, what exactly do you think are the scriptures?


Exactly what i said, you don't understand...

You claim to understand Jesus, yet i have to spell this out for you... And i will hopeing that you might see



29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30I and my Father are one.

Yes... the connection is there. No one is saying he wasn't divine, he claimed it himself... he was Gods son. The annointed one sent from the Father...


Now he asks them....


31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?


Which he showed many times to many people... the works of his Father... Miracles, healing the sick, loveing his fellow man, doing anything that anyone asks of him. Again he was as he said... Gods son.

And they answer him.... Its not for your works that we want to kill you... Its because you make yourself God and you're only a man. Again remember the company he kept, not the rich, not the priesthood, nor even the company of members of his own religion... The poor, the weak, the downtrodden, the sick, the lame and disfigured... Those that would be dispicable to these people... and likely most


33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


Meaning they hold themselfs higher then others, as their law was from moses who got it directly from God. As it says here....

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,(which was prophesied in their books) Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Again, notice the QUESTION MARK? He is questioning what they just said because he did not claim to be God, he claimed to be Gods son!

To which he replies...


37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. (Did he not do the works of God...his Father?)

38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him

Believe the work and believe that his spirit is within me...

Again for the 50th time, no one is claiming he is not divine... the Father is in him.... no doubt what so ever.

But he did not ever claim to be God... Not once in the work we have that was supposedly from his mouth. If he claimed to be God, someone would have written it down. But he did not lie... and many believe that he did not sin. So if this was true... Not claiming to be God when he was... would be a lie. But Not making such a claim would be truth. And he was the truth, the life... and the way.

And now if you don't understand this.... im sorry i have failed. Though anyone can clearly see what is being said here.... just open your eyes, try to ignore the silly dogma you've been taught... And read it.




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