Why God's Word The Bible IS Infallible!

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by bogomil

 

Quite typical once again... he ignores the thread i offered, and assumes because he ignored it... he wins.

Logic fail.... yet again!

This is the reason i gave up on speaking with him... playground antics such as ...NA NA i win!!... without any reason to claim victory has no place in a logical debate.

edit on 21-9-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

I find it great fun and an interesting study in how mindsets can develop into an almost ideological solipsism or solipsistic ideology.

reply to post by bogomil

Voltaire, but it's years ago. You want to bring him in as an 'authority' or just as illustrating a point?

I was going to illustrate a point, but I guess you don't care

Still waiting on one error in the Bible. If someone can not post an error than the Bible won, as usual. I'm sue people are getting tried of all these stalling posts and ignoring the issue of Bible fallibility.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by bogomil

 

Voltaire, but it's years ago. You want to bring him in as an 'authority' or just as illustrating a point?

I was going to illustrate a point, but I guess you don't care

Still waiting on one error in the Bible. If someone can not post an error than the Bible won, as usual. I'm sue people are getting tried of all these stalling posts and ignoring the issue of Bible fallibility.

...............

:bnghd:

Originally posted by Akragon
Over the past few months theres been an lingering issue in the religious section about Genesis.

After reading over both Genisis 1 and 2, you can clearly see they do contradict one another... For instance on the second day...

And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

..............

Moving on to later in that chapter... God creates man on the 5th day...

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Etc etc.......

Then we move to chapter 2, where we find a similar account, but slightly rearanged...

Genesis 2

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.

7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

....................

The question is if this is truely inspired by God, would he not know the sequence of events in his own creation?

Apparently this site has the answer....

Genesis chapters one and two describe the creation of the universe, the earth, and life on the earth. Some have said that these accounts are purely mythology. One of the reasons for this perception is because of the apparent contradiction between chapters one and two in the creation accounts. Chapter one describes the creation of plants followed by the creation of animals then humans. Chapter two seems to describe the creation of humans followed by the creation of plants then animals. If this assessment is true, it would seem that there is a contradiction between the creation accounts of Genesis 1 and 2.

Genesis one, the first chapter of the Bible, begins with the creation of the "heavens and earth"1 - a phrase that describes the entire universe. The Genesis one account is notable for being sequential, since the events are listed numerically by the day in which they occurred. Where does this creation take place? Locations mentioned include the heavens (the Hebrew termshamayim can refer to the atmosphere, interstellar space, or God's abode),2 earth (the Hebrew term erets can refer to the entire planet, a people group, or a local piece of geography),3 Sun, moon, and stars.4 How do we know the Hebrew term erets refers to the entire planet as opposed to local geography? Verse 2 describes the "surface of the deep,"5 which describes the primordial ocean.6 Subsequent verses indicate that there was no land until God caused it to appear from the midst of the waters.7 These facts, in the absence of specific place names, suggests that Genesis one describes creation on a global scale.

Besides describing the formation of land and seas, Genesis one describes the creation of plants and animals. The account begins with the creation on plants. Following this is the creation of birds, large sea creatures and swarming sea life. On the final "day," God creates the large grazing mammals and carnivores, along with small scurrying mammals. Creation culminates with the creation of mankind - the last creatures God creates. For a more detailed explanation, see The Literal Interpretation of the Genesis One Creation Account and Day-Age Genesis One Interpretation.

Genesis twoContrary to what many "scholars" have reported, Genesis two is not a retelling of Genesis one. How can we determine this to be true? First, we should examine the overall context. Genesis two is considerably different in regard to the emphasis of the content. Genesis one dedicates 4 verses (13%) to the creation of humans, beginning with verse 26. However, Genesis two dedicates 19 verses (76%) to the creation of humans, beginning with verse 7. Actually, since there are no real chapter breaks in the original Hebrew manuscripts, the story of the creation of humans continues throughout chapter 3 (another 24 verses). Obviously, the emphasis of the two "versions" is quite different. Part of the problem understanding this passage is because of the poor choice of English words in the common translations. The Hebrew word erets can be translated as "earth" (meaning global) or "land" (referring to a local geographical area). In the Old Testament, erets almost always refers to local geography and not the planet as a whole. We need to examine the context to determine whether erets refers to the entire earth or only a portion of it.

www.godandscience.org...

Though im sure some might argue their conclusion...

Theres also some that will contend that Genesis and the "big bang theory" are compatible...

Why does it appear that the theory of evolution and the Genesis account of creation are at odds? Simple genealogical math gives us a total of less than 6,000 years since God created Adam and Eve as described in Genesis, yet Science tells us the fossil records go back 3.6 billion years? How can we reconcile this paradox? See History: Life Evolves and Early Man Before Adam.

reluctant-messenger.com...

This thread is dedicated to those that would like an opportunity to voice their opinion on the creation/big bang theory.

1. If God inspired Genesis, why are the events in the incorrect order when compared to one another?

2. Is there any Scientific reality to the Creation account, or the Big bang theory?

3. Do these theories actually complement one another as opposed to contradicting each other?

This discussion is open to everyone including Every belief / Non belief

This is not a thread to bash one anothers beliefs, please do that elsewhere...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by bogomil

 

Voltaire, but it's years ago. You want to bring him in as an 'authority' or just as illustrating a point?

I was going to illustrate a point, but I guess you don't care

Still waiting on one error in the Bible. If someone can not post an error than the Bible won, as usual. I'm sue people are getting tried of all these stalling posts and ignoring the issue of Bible fallibility.

Stalling = wanting a VALID systematic methodology?

I would put Voltaire on a un-recommended reading list.
He was most likely an anti-Christian Freemason.

reply to post by Akragon


As to your post of 21/9 11:46 PM, where you actually present the requested material on bible-fallibility, it's significant that it hasn't led to any 'explanations' yet.

Not that I personally would choose the approach you have used, ........I want the alternative of first establishing a basis of systematic methodology, as I have the distinct impression, that KJV has no idea of what he's talking about..., but I can momentarily hang on should should this direction develop.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Akragon

 

As to your post of 21/9 11:46 PM, where you actually present the requested material on bible-fallibility, it's significant that it hasn't led to any 'explanations' yet.

Not that I personally would choose the approach you have used, ........I want the alternative of first establishing a basis of systematic methodology, as I have the distinct impression, that KJV has no idea of what he's talking about..., but I can momentarily hang on should should this direction develop.

Well im glad someone else noticed that he is quite clueless...

Either way i didn't see this thread having any progression at all, i just thought i'd give it a shove... which also led to said lack of progression either way...

reply to post by Akragon


You two still kissing each other? Do this for me mad cat if you want me to comment (correct) your supposed error. Condence your linked thread's "point" into one or two sentences as I do not care to read your 1,500 word post. Maybe if you were interesting I would but since you're not I will wait for a summary.

You can do this for him if you want too boogs, but I believe you are still lost in your own world of terminology where you attempt to compfort your fears of dying and standing before the Biblical God's Holy and vengeful judgement.

I'll be waiting kids.

reply to post by KJV1611


so i guess we can add "lazy" to the already growing list of your issues...

Why am i not supprized

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Akragon

 

You two still kissing each other? Do this for me mad cat if you want me to comment (correct) your supposed error. Condence your linked thread's "point" into one or two sentences as I do not care to read your 1,500 word post. Maybe if you were interesting I would but since you're not I will wait for a summary.

You can do this for him if you want too boogs, but I believe you are still lost in your own world of terminology where you attempt to compfort your fears of dying and standing before the Biblical God's Holy and vengeful judgement.

I'll be waiting kids.

I am in my basic attitude to life a great fan of simplicity, but there are areas, where your favourite methodology of "BECAUSE" is unsufficient.

That I on one occasion daringly extended this to the complexity of "BECAUSE NOT" appeared to either have confused your or been beyond your debate-principles, because you just repeated "because".

I notice, that this post of yours concentrates much on character-analyzing and the consequences on debate of it. I fail to see the intermediary steps connecting it to topic; you may be so corteous as to fill in the missing links. This thread is after all about the claim, that the bible is infallible.

with all that said, I am still waiting.
____________________________

Originally posted by KJV1611
with all that said, I am still waiting.
____________________________

For me to unconditionally accept your self-fullfilling premises? That's unlikely to happen, and in the meanwhile the claim of this thread of bible-infallibility still stands as a claim.

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by KJV1611
with all that said, I am still waiting.
____________________________

For me to unconditionally accept your self-fullfilling premises? That's unlikely to happen, and in the meanwhile the claim of this thread of bible-infallibility still stands as a claim.

And might i add, it will remain as such... simply because the two main opponents of the claim are still here, and the the two that defend the claim have disapeared... as has the OP, which just leaves one clueless individual that can barely understand logic/reason, or even the english language it seems at times.

So you'll likely continue waiting, or abandon the thread as others have because as Bogo has stated we do not bare the "burden of proof"

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by KJV1611
with all that said, I am still waiting.
____________________________

For me to unconditionally accept your self-fullfilling premises? That's unlikely to happen, and in the meanwhile the claim of this thread of bible-infallibility still stands as a claim.

And might i add, it will remain as such... simply because the two main opponents of the claim are still here, and the the two that defend the claim have disapeared... as has the OP, which just leaves one clueless individual that can barely understand logic/reason, or even the english language it seems at times.

So you'll likely continue waiting, or abandon the thread as others have because as Bogo has stated we do not bare the "burden of proof"

edit on 26-9-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

The last and most fascinating part of these fights on 'homeground' is yet to manifest. That it when one part says: "I say yes to, that you said no, when I said yes, and what do you then say to that?"

And when everybody is terminally confused by words meaning nothing, presenting bible-infallibility as a stated fact partly hidden behind the smoke-screen.

The statement possibly visible if you have a holy spirit or them there 3-D glasses with a green and red glass. But we shall see, what new premises will emerge.

Still to afraid to post a supposed error kids? I think I know why....you have both been shamed in the past with your lack of basic knowledge in regards to the Bible, thus now you are too scared to debate me.

I don't blame you.

The Bible has stood it's ground for thousands of years against fools and naysayers. So what is it? Are you afraid of the answers you might receive from the Holy Bible? Or are you two just unaware of any errors in the Bible? For I have yet to see one from either of you. You're both starting to bore me. This is a thread about the Bible you know, so stay on topic.

Originally posted by KJV1611
Still to afraid to post a supposed error kids? I think I know why....you have both been shamed in the past with your lack of basic knowledge in regards to the Bible, thus now you are too scared to debate me.

I don't blame you.

The Bible has stood it's ground for thousands of years against fools and naysayers. So what is it? Are you afraid of the answers you might receive from the Holy Bible? Or are you two just unaware of any errors in the Bible? For I have yet to see one from either of you. You're both starting to bore me. This is a thread about the Bible you know, so stay on topic.

edit on 26-9-2011 by KJV1611 because: i can

I've already posted what i needed... And besides, i've debated with you a few times... and you lost because of your nosensical answers. I don't need to prove anything, and you're too lazy to read what i posted so we're at a stalemate. Of course you could just review the thread, but again....you're too lazy to read a single post, let alone a thread.

Besides, if my knowledge of the bible is basic... that pretty much means yours is non-existent

Originally posted by KJV1611
Still to afraid to post a supposed error kids? I think I know why....you have both been shamed in the past with your lack of basic knowledge in regards to the Bible, thus now you are too scared to debate me.

I don't blame you.

The Bible has stood it's ground for thousands of years against fools and naysayers. So what is it? Are you afraid of the answers you might receive from the Holy Bible? Or are you two just unaware of any errors in the Bible? For I have yet to see one from either of you. You're both starting to bore me. This is a thread about the Bible you know, so stay on topic.

edit on 26-9-2011 by KJV1611 because: i can

I have a question my friend.

If Zecharia was given 30 pieces of silver for his labor, why does Matthew attribute this to Jeremiah?

Here is Zecharia (Judgement against God's flock)

1Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars.

2Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down.

3There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.

4Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter;

5Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not. 6For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.

7And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. 8Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me. 9Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another. 10And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. 11And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD. 12And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. 13And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. 14Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. 16For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.

17Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

And here is Matthew

9Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; 10And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me.

Jeremiah did not say this thing, so why did Matthew attribute it to him?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by KJV1611


Heres another one just for fun...

29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

yet.. john states clearly...


17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

reply to post by IAMIAM

I have a question my friend.
If Zecharia was given 30 pieces of silver for his labor, why does Matthew attribute this to Jeremiah?
Jeremiah did not say this thing, so why did Matthew attribute it to him?
With Love,
Your Brother

Great question! And with a great attitude as well! You genuinely sound like you want to know more about the Bible, and not just try to disprove it!

Anyhow, the answer is pretty easy and quite obvious once you see beyond the depravity of the human mind to try it's best to find fault with God's word. (your not to blame, we were all born sinners and its our nature to question God).

Look at the verse again:

Zechariah 11:12-13
"And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD."

Matthew 27:9
"Then was fulfilled that which was SPOKEN by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;"

You said

Jeremiah did not say this thing

But you are assuming this ↑....
Jeremiah most certainly could have "said this", he just didn't "write it". Zechariah was the one that wrote it!
Hints the:

Then was fulfilled that which was SPOKEN by Jeremy the prophet

not written.

Jeremiah's ministry was over 100 years before Zachariah's, so Jeremiah could have easily said this statement, but it was only Zechariah that penned it down later. If you want proof, many of the prophets in the Old Testament repeated the same material over and over again in their books. This would be just another example of it.

Always give God and his Bible the benefit of doubt when there is a supposed error. But I guess you could just say God is wrong and you are right though....plenty do it all the time!! just ask mad cat and bogo.

Great question

reply to post by KJV1611


I never once said God was wrong, i said you were wrong and the bible is flawed in many cases.... and the bible is not Gods word. SO whatever is contained within said book is irelevent to God being correct