Why God's Word The Bible IS Infallible!

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by Nosred
I'm am still waiting for you to accept my challenge edmc^2. Gather your prophets and we shall meet atop Mount Carmel (or the mountain of your choice) with our sacrifices.

not sure why the mod did not remove your post - I guess it's OK then to respond.

You said to gather my prophets - sorry, I'm not a prophet nor have prophets and have no time to go up a mountain - so I guess you won. Congratulations!

Sorry, that's just how your infallible book says we can settle the dispute. I guess you're admitting your hypocrisy that it's not so infallible after all.

reply to post by EarthCitizen23



Thanks for sharing your thought EarthCitizen23.

But just to let you know - I've read a lot of books and none can compare to the clarity, accuracy, simplicity and most of all truthfulness of the Bible. That's why I hold it in such a very high regard.

Let's take for example Mythology - although they are highly exaggerated and distorted to become myths - they contain some kernel of truth.

Take the Greek Mythology for instance - any idea from what source did the Greeks got their belief? The story of gods and demigods? They were actually based on Biblical facts - but highly exaggerated beyond recognition as facts.

This myth was based on the time before the flood of Noah - when the sons of God (angels) came to earth to cohabit with the "daughters of men". This cohabitation was a violation of God's laws, the result - they bore children of enormous sizes - called the Nephilim. These creatures posses Herculean powers as they were giants. Some of these giants became famous no doubt and their parents the wicked angels (now known as demons) also made a name for themselves. As time passes - the story became more exaggerated then passed on to other cultures for more embellishment and exaggeration.

Other myth is the Epic of Gilgamesh - it's a highly exaggerated story but based on actual event - the Deluge.

As for the Egyptian knowledge - much of their belief were also based on myth, like immortal soul, underworld n such - they inherited their belief from other civilizations which can be trace back again to one location - Mesopotamia. No doubt Moses was aware of these teachings being the adopted son of the daughter of Pharaoh. But he abandoned all of it and took up dwelling in the wilderness. As a Hebrew he was well aware of his origin and there was no doubt that he followed his Jewish belief. On this fact he was chosen by God to led his people the Hebrews from slavery out of Egypt. The scripture said that he had a miraculous encounter with God at mount Sinai where he received divine instructions for 40 days and 40 nights. The instructions, commands and words that he wrote became part of the Bible canon.

So to say that Moses based his writings from Egyptian belief is beyond exaggeration and unfounded as we have his writings. A simple reading of his writings will confirm this:

If you can please let me know where did Moses receive or got the Ten Commandments? If you say Egypt - please provide proof.



So as you can see the Bible - is accurate as the day it was written, the messages contained in there never changed inspite of all the efforts to destroy and contaminate it.

So to me - it's a waste of time reading books that are filled with inaccuracies and myths because only the Bible - the WRITTEN word of God is the Standard - because it's never wrong/infallible.

Originally posted by Nosred

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by Nosred
I'm am still waiting for you to accept my challenge edmc^2. Gather your prophets and we shall meet atop Mount Carmel (or the mountain of your choice) with our sacrifices.

not sure why the mod did not remove your post - I guess it's OK then to respond.

You said to gather my prophets - sorry, I'm not a prophet nor have prophets and have no time to go up a mountain - so I guess you won. Congratulations!

Sorry, that's just how your infallible book says we can settle the dispute. I guess you're admitting your hypocrisy that it's not so infallible after all.

no just pointing the silliness of the napkin religion.

for how can one win with silliness unless one becomes silly. So you win.

Originally posted by edmc^2
no just pointing the silliness of the napkin religion.

for how can one win with silliness unless one becomes silly. So you win.

That's not what your infallible book says to do, the napkin religion has just as much validity as yours until one god accepts a sacrifice and answers with fire. Thus it is written.

Edit: Actually any religion has just as much validity as yours until you do this. Now do you mind if I ask why you aren't Muslim since the writers of the Koran were allegedly inspired by the same God who inspired the first two testaments?

Originally posted by Nosred

Originally posted by edmc^2
no just pointing the silliness of the napkin religion.

for how can one win with silliness unless one becomes silly. So you win.

That's not what your infallible book says to do, the napkin religion has just as much validity as yours until one god accepts a sacrifice and answers with fire. Thus it is written.

And yet that test was already proven - so why do you want to repeat it?

Here was the result if you don't know:

1Ki 18:36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the [evening] oblation, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, O Jehovah, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.


1Ki 18:37 Hear me, O Jehovah, hear me, that this people may know that thou, Jehovah, art God, and [that] thou hast turned their heart back again.


1Ki 18:38 Then the fire of Jehovah fell, and consumed the burnt-offering, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.


1Ki 18:39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, Jehovah, he is God; Jehovah, he is God.

=== ASV

O ye with little faith!

Originally posted by edmc^2
And yet that test was already proven - so why do you want to repeat it?

You can't use the bible as your source to prove the bible is true. That is a logical fallacy.

Edit: And again can I ask why you're not Muslim if you really believe this? The Koran was allegedly inspired by the same God, you have no more reason to believe it's false than you do to believe the Bible is. You sound like one of those people who just believes in the Bible because that's what they were told to believe growing up.

Originally posted by sm30482
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Ok... lets start then.
The god of the bible is all love right? he cares about you, he cares about me..

Have you read Judges 20?
It tells the story of Israel going against Benjamin because a sexual sin. You should know it.
They asked god who should go first, which tribe:

18 And they proceeded to rise up and go on up to Beth´el and to inquire of God. Then the sons of Israel said: “Who of us should go up in the lead to the battle against the sons of Benjamin?” To this Jehovah said: “Judah in the lead.” 19 After that the sons of Israel rose up in the morning and camped against Gib´e·ah.

Do you know the result?

20 The men of Israel now went out to battle against Benjamin; and the men of Israel proceeded to draw up in battle formation against them at Gib´e·ah. 21 So the sons of Benjamin came on out from Gib´e·ah and brought twenty-two thousand men in Israel down to ruin to the earth on that day

OK ok ok..... 22 000 people died there because they had faith in god, following their words.

God, not happy with that, again:
23 Then the sons of Israel went up and wept before Jehovah until the evening and inquired of Jehovah, saying: “Shall I again approach for battle against the sons of Benjamin my brother?” To this Jehovah said: “Go up against him.”

the result was 18000 men died again.

I will stop here. God let 40 000 people die for following his words??? is that an ALL LOVE GOD?
I do believe in god. But if he is love, this book doesn't show this here.
I

edmc^2 this is the post...

reply to post by Nosred

Edit: Actually any religion has just as much validity as yours until you do this. Now do you mind if I ask why you aren't Muslim since the writers of the Koran were allegedly inspired by the same God who inspired the first two testaments?

I thought Muslims call their god - Allah - unless you're saying that Allah is the same as the Hebrew YHWH - Yahuwah / Jehovah / Yahweh. If so please explain how.

later....

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by Nosred

 

I thought Muslims call their god - Allah - unless you're saying that Allah is the same as the Hebrew YHWH - Yahuwah / Jehovah / Yahweh. If so please explain how.

later....

"Allah" is Arabic for literally "God", the same thing you call him (*gasp*, not everyone on Earth speaks English?). The first two books of the Koran are the Old Testament and the New Testament, the same books that make up the Bible. The Koran is literally just the Bible with an extra testament.



Edit: So I think you *might* have committed blasphemy when you said "their god", at least if your infallible book is to be believed.

reply to post by edmc^2


That is Funny.

Think you have that backwards my friend.
The Gilgamesh Story precedes the Biblical books by a long shot, and your finally coming 'out' with your reference to the Sons of God.

Let's look at this.
Obviously, we agree that something happened,,, way back when,, part of the story is with the Deluge,,the, 'angels doing human women' and all the assorted 'cosmology' of the Lords Army. Seems the story you use to back up "God is infallable" is the best proof of all that ''he'' may not be who he said he was,,,,, back in the day.
Have you ever given it the thought that maybe Yahweh,, might be one of those,, ''fallen angels''
You can pick and choose your 'mythology'' whichever you wish,,, personally I look at them all as suspect in what the real Truth of the Matter is in regards to Humans and Humanity and its future.
We are Owned.
Maybe by Yahweh,,, Jehovah,,, the Lord of Hosts,,, or Satan himself.
but it is obvious to most,, we are owned.
I think belief,,, followed blindly and without critical investigation,, leads us all into a ditch.
So, you think them demons,,, I am not so sure,, of either camp,,, Your god's or any other for that matter.
Especially the one's who act as Custodians,,, as William Bramley put so well in his Gods of Eden book.
Yahweh / jehovah acted in a very twisted and at times evil way to his subjects,,, only a small amount of objectivity needed to assess that as the truth.
My favorite of all Biblical story's is the one you reference about the Tower of Babel.
For me the interesting part was this.
Humanity,, for once in History was of One Accord. Meaning that we came together for a Single purpose.
Christians say this was Pride, which is ridiculous given the story itself .
My favorite verse is:

God says in Genesis 11:6, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them."

I hear the Fear in ''Gods" voice in this verse.
Knowing that if Humans come together,, with one accord,,, anything we agree upon to do,,,, We can accomplish.
God Itself,,, said this.

You can read into it what you wish,,, but for me,,,, God was afraid.

Plan and simple.

Thus,,, Not a God.
If this is the case,,, then whom is the Being who fooled a group of slaves to stay in the Desert for 40 years so they could be Programmed into a Religious Virus that has swept the world with its twisted view of Humanity. You are almost there,,, peek through the religious trappings that have been set like traps for the Minds of Mankind.

Wake up and smell the Coffee.
The Deity of the Bible is One of the Ones you should be questioning. His motives are clear.
Make Humanity submit to Rule by an arrogant and possibly insane being from who knows where,,,,,
Read those stories again,,,, maybe you will see.
I did.

Just a tidbit about me.
I studied to be a Minister when I was young. Studied Hebrew, archeology, anthropology, traveled to see first hand, the land and ancient texts of yore! and of course the main meal.
The Bible.
Had a great teacher,,, learned objectivity regarding the 'Book'.
Saved my soul. Took the Emotional blinders off and then
It is easy to see,,, ''The Lord" for who he truly is,, if you give it a shot.
Beware of Wolves in Sheeps clothing.
Yahweh is no friend of Humanity.

reply to post by EarthCitizen23

You can read into it what you wish,,, but for me,,,, God was afraid.

Really, you say God was afraid ? Everything he does, is done for a reason. We don't always understand. If we always did, it would be very easy to accept him. He expects us to develop and maintain faith in all he does.
You also forget that God has an enemy that was organizing humans in opposition to him at the Tower of Babel, he basically said "Nope, not happening" and scattered the people. He essentially evened the playing field, and served the Devil a stern warning.

Make Humanity submit to Rule by an arrogant and possibly insane being from who knows where,,,,,

You just described Satan the Devil

I was going to reply to more of your post but I know your type, you have done so much study and research that you have reached the conclusion that your sense of morality is higher than God's because you don't understand. Or maybe you do and you just disagree. He has given us all free will and every human is entitled to do so, but know this, when you disagree with the sovereign of the universe there will be repercussions at some point.

Im curious OP. You are Catholic right?
Jesus also said to Peter "Upon your rock I will build my church" And that rock was in Rome, and it was the Catholic church that arose. So youre Catholic and thats the real one Jesus said we should all belong to, right?
So, you DO bleong to it of course? I'd feel better knowing.

reply to post by smithjustinb


You wrote:

["The ultimate absolutes are infinity and nothing. It's pretty clear. If it isn't, then you're just being intellectually stubborn."]

From a cosmic context, using language as a symbolic expression for abstract concepts, there's the ever-existing risk of letting the 'symbolism' take over and from there speculate on. Eventually arriving at speculative semantic constructions, padded with doctrines.

Well knowing, that an allegory isn't an argument, but an illustration:

"When I point at the moon, don't look at my finger; look at the moon".

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


You wrote:

["From the Tree of Life in some thought,,, Ain, Ain Soph, Ain Soph Aur represent parts of Deity we don't understand well, above Kether."]

My compliments, real knowledge and competence.

Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu; Oden, Vile, Ve; The three Gunas; Father, Mother and Child; Gurdjieff's bringing it up to contemporary times via sufism; and whatever minor and washed-out versions there exist throughout mythology.

And what's even 'behind' this .....but not for this thread.

Contrasting this approach to 'reality' with a glossy, Disney-like caricature-'god' is an option for some people, to send out and to recieve.

As to the hoped-for monopoly...never.

reply to post by edmc^2


Those words are a victory for common sense.

Jesus was just a man surrounded by racist child molesting slave rapers..... Which made everything he said gold.

reply to post by edmc^2


You wrote:

["no just pointing the silliness of the napkin religion. for how can one win with silliness unless one becomes silly. So you win."]

This 'silliness' being one you share to the outmost, as your method to arrive to your self-proclaimed 'truths' is identical with the one of napkin'ism and pastafaria'nism.

"It's true, because it's true"; eventually resorting to propagandistic preachings, as the circle-argumentation becomes too hollow. Did you really believe, that anything can be successfully promoted this way and this day, in a context of educated people.

It functions better in areas, where it is possible to bribe people with food. medicine etc to listen to you.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


You wrote:

["Really, you say God was afraid ? Everything he does, is done for a reason. We don't always understand. If we always did, it would be very easy to accept him. He expects us to develop and maintain faith in all he does."]

And after having arranged the whole situation on your premises from its start, you not surprisingly arrive at 'proving' yourself 'right'.

This can be done in ANY circle-argumented system whatsoever, which is why we have prophets, missionaries, saviours, messiahs or just the generally confused yelling at each other and mankind from soapboxes.

Quote: ["You also forget that God has an enemy that was organizing humans in opposition to him at the Tower of Babel, he basically said "Nope, not happening" and scattered the people. He essentially evened the playing field, and served the Devil a stern warning."]

As Hitler had the jews, and McCarthy the commies. In any case you probably didn't get the message. It's Jahveh most likely being the 'bad guy'.

Quote: ["You just described Satan the Devil"]

That's how it looks like in your upside-down mythology.

Quote: [" I was going to reply to more of your post but I know your type, you have done so much study and research that you have reached the conclusion that your sense of morality is higher than God's because you don't understand."]

Can you please include me in that category also. It's almost a compliment to be put there.

Quote: ["He has given us all free will and every human is entitled to do so, but know this, when you disagree with the sovereign of the universe there will be repercussions at some point."]

Free will to be used according to earlier instructions/orders "or else".

Originally posted by wearewatchingyouman
reply to post by edmc^2

 

c'mon man... it's clearly implying that man was created first... and even if one were to accept your twisted interpretation you're still left with the discrepancy of the wild beasts and the flying creatures being created in between Adam and Eve... where in the first account the animals were created prior to man and man and woman were created simultaneously...

in case you missed it ythe first time... since I didn't see a reply....

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by EarthCitizen23

 

You can read into it what you wish,,, but for me,,,, God was afraid.

Really, you say God was afraid ? Everything he does, is done for a reason. We don't always understand. If we always did, it would be very easy to accept him. He expects us to develop and maintain faith in all he does.
You also forget that God has an enemy that was organizing humans in opposition to him at the Tower of Babel, he basically said "Nope, not happening" and scattered the people. He essentially evened the playing field, and served the Devil a stern warning.

Make Humanity submit to Rule by an arrogant and possibly insane being from who knows where,,,,,

You just described Satan the Devil

I was going to reply to more of your post but I know your type, you have done so much study and research that you have reached the conclusion that your sense of morality is higher than God's because you don't understand. Or maybe you do and you just disagree. He has given us all free will and every human is entitled to do so, but know this, when you disagree with the sovereign of the universe there will be repercussions at some point.

edit on 20-7-2011 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)

Again,, very funny how you can read what your own 'god' said, but not believe it.
The fear is evident, and it has nothing to do with not understanding as you say. I understand. He said again for the record: (From Wikipedia)

According to the biblical account, a united humanity of the generations following the Great Flood, speaking a single language and migrating from the east, came to the land of Shinar, where they resolved to build a city with a tower "with its top in the heavens...lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the Earth." God came down to see what they did and said: "They are one people and have one language, and nothing will be withholden from them which they purpose to do." So God said, "Come, let us go down and confound their speech." And so God scattered them upon the face of the Earth, and confused their languages, and they left off building the city, which was called Babel "because God there confounded the language of all the Earth."(Genesis 11:5-8).

Humans at the time knew who they were dealing with, and United against this Dictator Being,,, so they would not be scattered across the face of the Earth. I personally believe they were more Technologically advanced than we give credit,,, not some dumb Desert hicks as presented by Biblical apologist. The Top that reaches to the Heaven has been described by other researchers to be likened to our own Titan Rockets,,, where only the Top 'reached into the heavens' Humans were runniing into the domain of the 'deities' (Space) and they wanted to keep us Earthbound and stupid,,,, and they have done a good job by your account. You said,, god evened the Playing field,,, I don't think so,,, a true God would not need to resort to such Machiavellian methods to keep his 'sheep' in line. Where was the Love? You are so misguided by blind belief in what you have been programmed to believe.
So,,, THEY said,,,, multiple beings,,,,
"Let Us go down and confound their speech" as they were of One language,,, working together united,,, in their Humanity. You take this as a bad thing,, but we should be so lucky to achieve this Today. United Humanity,,, against a nebulous Being who wishes to totally control and use Humanity for its own ends..... Which you take to be good,,,,, sending most off to some Hell,,, because we don't agree with Servitude status. No God is worthy of worship who uses such tactics, and you only fool yourself by thinking you are on the side of 'Good'... This is pure Evil,, portrayed as Holy.
So,,, THEY said,,,, again multiple beings are doing this,,, not some singular deity up in the sky.
""They are one people and have one language, and nothing will be withholden from them which they purpose to do."
They were very afraid,,, because we were throwing off the shackles of worship to find out for ourselves what a United Humanity could do,,,, and they Knew that if we remained United,,, we could Accomplish Anything we set our Hearts and Minds to do.... That is BIG.
So,,, they came,,,,, scattered us somehow by screwing with Werneke's area in the Brain or something,,, causing Confusion,,,, does that sound like a God,,, causing confusion??
Really Listen just for a second,,,
Your God caused the discord and confusion that we now live with day to day.
Humans don't understand each other do to Interference by your 'deity'.
Not a God in my Book,,, but some Bubba like Control Freak from who knows where,,,, probably working for some SuperGalactic Conglomerate whose sole purpose is to use Humanity and Earth for their Good,,,, NOT Human Good.

You have picked the wrong side,,, you are mistaken,,,,, sorry but This is Evil done against Humanity,,, If you want to call it god,,, so be it,,,
Satanist do the same,,,,

You also do not "Know my type" or you would realize that I started out just like you,, a believer. I just could not be a Blind believer. I have spent my life in study of this topic,, and all with an Open mind,,, still available for updates when needed. I take what people say and Listen,,, they sometimes have something to offer. What you offer is Old Hat,,, same song,,, but Blind Belief because the Bible Told me So doesn't cut the mustard seed anymore,,,, Jesus said Test the spirits,,, and I started out by listening to him,,,, even if I don't call myself Christian,,, He had alot to say on this matter. So testing the spirit of the Bible,,, you find it lacking.
It is Propaganda for the Other side,,, he said it himself when speaking to the Jews that their Father was the Devil.
What do you think that meant?
The war in Heaven has divided humanity to the point now where it is almost hopeless,,,
Humans are waiting for someone to save them,,,, when the story of the Tower of Babel shows,,,,, We have to do it for ourselves.
The Kingdom of Heaven is Within,,,,, if you follow what Jesus said. Which I do concur on this point.
To bad Christians have not gotten this simple idea yet,,, they still hold out for Streets paved with Gold,, and domination over Non Believers.
So,,, thanks for the compliment as a previous poster said in response to,,,,"I was going to reply to more of your post but I know your type, you have done so much study and research that you have reached the conclusion that your sense of morality is higher than God's because you don't understand" that he wished to be included,,,
Bogomil,,,, glad to know someone out there is given it some thought. Welcome to Hell,,, as I guess that is where we are consigned by their madcap deity.
Yes, I have studied, thought that was what one was supposed to do with the Bible,,, but if one walks away with a different perspective,,,, we get labeled arrogant believing our Morality is Higher than God's.
Yep,,,,, Guess you are right,,, my sense is this Being is Morally destitute and not worthy of Worship. Evil is Evil,, you can call it God if you want,,, but the track record shows,,,,,
The Dude in the Bible is One Mean spirited Being.
I would be careful of giving this being more power with worship,,,, remember what happened to Hitler.
So, in conclusion
I am very open minded,,, will listen to sound arguments,,, but fluffy bunny pieces like are exhibited here by some believers of the Bible verges on Madness.
No wonder our history is as it is,,,,, the Deity of your Book stacked the Cards against Humanity reaching a level of understanding befitting a species that might "Get off Planet"
We are Quarantined!! Locked in by a Sadistic meglomaniac who is now worshiped as a God.

Will the Real (if any ) God/dess Help us please!!!
Doubt it,,,, so we must do it ourselves. I for one,, would love to have Humanity reach a point like the Tower episode again were we were United with One singular Cause to push us forward against this Madness.
Alien Invasion,,, Rapture,,,, Antichrist,,,, you pick it,,,,, it is coming,,,, and I hope you are on the Right side when it comes,,, or you will be sorry for expending so much energy worshiping a Devil,,, not a God.

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


The Garden of Eden story is very much the same... God lies... Serpent tells the truth... God gets scared and makes man a slave worker and it hurt for women to give birth... Yet somehow Christians get the sense that Satan was the father of the lie out of this story.... it's friekin' baffling