Why God's Word The Bible IS Infallible!

reply to post by wearewatchingyouman



Sometimes I have thought maybe the Bible was written as it was,,, so We would eventually See that we have been hoodwinked. Clever to put the truth were it wouldn't be seen by Blind Believers. They believe a cover story fairy tale,, and the Truth as always,,,, is stranger than the Fiction they propose.

at least that is my take on it,,,, seems obvious once you drop the Emotional hype, and God wrote it all,,, so that is the Truth crap.

Dig deep people,,,, Lies are Lies,,, even if "God" told them.

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by Nosred

 

Edit: Actually any religion has just as much validity as yours until you do this. Now do you mind if I ask why you aren't Muslim since the writers of the Koran were allegedly inspired by the same God who inspired the first two testaments?

I thought Muslims call their god - Allah - unless you're saying that Allah is the same as the Hebrew YHWH - Yahuwah / Jehovah / Yahweh. If so please explain how.

later....

It is the same God. There is only one God, and regardless of how you choose to worship him, you are still worshipping the one God that is infinity/nothing.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

You wrote:

["The ultimate absolutes are infinity and nothing. It's pretty clear. If it isn't, then you're just being intellectually stubborn."]

From a cosmic context, using language as a symbolic expression for abstract concepts, there's the ever-existing risk of letting the 'symbolism' take over and from there speculate on. Eventually arriving at speculative semantic constructions, padded with doctrines.

Well knowing, that an allegory isn't an argument, but an illustration:

"When I point at the moon, don't look at my finger; look at the moon".

What makes you think that I'm doing this. Maybe my semantic symbolic representation doesn't foster an accurate mental image of what I am referring to, but why can't you just admit that the words infinity and nothing are the closest semantic approximation to the ultimate absolutes as you can get.

I really don't see how your argument is relevant. You, for some strange reason, believe that I can't mentally come up with an accurate mental image using my semantic symbology, but I'm doing it. In my head, the words I am using are accurate symbolic representations of the concept, so what is your argument here? Are you just trying to tell me that you can't come up with an accurate mental image based on the semantic symbol?? Don't blame me and my conclusions for your short-comings.

reply to post by smithjustinb


I think maybe what is trying to be said here,, is the Map is not the Territory.

Semantic problems are the crux of the problem,,, and as I stated earlier,,, we have Yahweh/Jehovah and his minions to thank for that,,,,, at one time Humanity spoke the same language and understood each other by what they said.
Tower of Babel fixed that problem....
Pride had nothing to do with it.

reply to post by EarthCitizen23

if you follow what Jesus said. Which I do concur on this point.

Interesting, so your a quasi christian that likes what they read in the New Testament but hates what they read in the Old Testament, that's unfortunate, as that is the reality of history, and it's not all puppies and rainbows. Your comments strike me as someone who is confused by your own meditation and study, yet a believer anyways.
I hope you find the way, truly understanding Jesus Christ and his Father Almighty God and their purposes, before judgement strikes.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by EarthCitizen23

 

if you follow what Jesus said. Which I do concur on this point.

I hope you find the way, truly understanding Jesus Christ and his Father Almighty God and their purposes, before judgement strikes.

The judgement that wouldn't be unnessesary if your god wasn't such a jealous, feckless mongrel?

reply to post by Garfee


Careful
Galatians 6:7a

Do not be deceived and deluded and misled; God will not allow Himself to be sneered at (scorned, disdained, or mocked

Ezekiel 38:23

"'I'll show you how great I am, how holy I am. I'll make myself known all over the world. Then you'll realize that I am God.'"

That is a promise that's coming.

reply to post by sm30482


sorry - don't have that much time today but would like to reply back to your Q:

Ok – you were talking about the battle of Gibeah.

So basically your question is: if God is Infallible why did he allow 40,000 die in the battle at Gibeah? And by allowing this to happen your contention is Jehovah God is fallible – in short you’re saying he made a mistake.

I wonder though, do you also think he made a mistake when he sent General Gideon and his 300 men to fight against a large Median army of 135,000?

Question is, why the big difference? Why were the 40,000 very capable valiant men of war defeated by a small army yet 300 vs 135,000 were not?

Actually all in all as I read the account it said that there were about 400,000 men ready for battle but only 22,000 was sent the first time then 18,000 men the second time. The account did not mention who came up with these numbers, but in any case it seems that Judah was confident that they will defeat the tribe of Benjamin easily. But did they? Apparently not for they were defeated twice. So the question is, will they give up the fight – give up the removal of badness in all Israel? The account says no since they wept and fasted and offered up burnt offering to Jehovah God asking for his help.

Notice: (ASV)

Jdg 20:26 Then all the children of Israel, and all the people, went up, and came unto Beth-el, and wept, and sat there before Jehovah, and fasted that day until even; and they offered burnt-offerings and peace-offerings before Jehovah.

Jdg 20:27 And the children of Israel asked of Jehovah (for the ark of the covenant of God was there in those days,

Jdg 20:28 and Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, stood before it in those days), saying, Shall I yet again go out to battle against the children of Benjamin my brother, or shall I cease? And Jehovah said, Go up; for to-morrow I will deliver him into thy hand."

Something they did not do in the first two campaigns, possibly due to overconfidence on themselves. But even in the 3rd campaign they still lost 30 men out of 10,000 against 25,100 men– yet inspite of the small loss – they were determined to rid of the evil. Finally victory was achieved.

So bottom line, victory / the battle boils down to reliance and trust on God’s ability to save his people at all cost. Remember also Israel made an agreement with Jehovah God, that they will obey and trust him with all their heart, mind, and soul – and he will protect them as a nation. And if they disobey, the consequence is the lost of his support. This is true in all of the events during the existence of Israel as a nation – when they relied on themselves and not trusting God on matters of war, they were defeated. But as soon as they rely on God – they were victorious.

Notice:
“There is no king saved by the abundance of military forces; A mighty man himself is not delivered by the abundance of power.” (Psalm 33:16)

“Woe to those going down to Egypt for assistance, those who rely on mere horses, and who put their trust in war chariots, because they are numerous, and in steeds, because they are very mighty, but who have not looked to the Holy One of Israel and have not searched for Jehovah himself.” (Isaiah 31:1)

As for the 40,030 who died – if they were faithful when they died, resurrection is guaranteed to them. In other words all who died that are in God’s memory will be resurrected back to life – in a sense death has no real power over God’s abilities.

Sad part is, all of the blood loss could have been prevented if ONLY the tribe of Benjamin listened to their brother’s demand – give up the evil men who committed the wicked deed. But no – they were hard headed. Judah on the other hand apparently relied on their military strength instead of letting God do the battle for them. So there’s a lesson here.

Question is – why did God let the Bible writers write these sad, bloody events? Is it to make himself look bad to you or is there’s a good reason behind it? What is the reason?

Originally posted by Nosred

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by Nosred

 

I thought Muslims call their god - Allah - unless you're saying that Allah is the same as the Hebrew YHWH - Yahuwah / Jehovah / Yahweh. If so please explain how.

later....

"Allah" is Arabic for literally "God", the same thing you call him (*gasp*, not everyone on Earth speaks English?). The first two books of the Koran are the Old Testament and the New Testament, the same books that make up the Bible. The Koran is literally just the Bible with an extra testament.

edit on 19-7-2011 by Nosred because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-7-2011 by Nosred because: (no reason given)

Edit: So I think you *might* have committed blasphemy when you said "their god", at least if your infallible book is to be believed.

edit on 19-7-2011 by Nosred because: (no reason given)

I know Allah mean God - a title like Dad, but what is Allah's name?

And what blasphemy are u talking 'bout? Saying "their god" as in "their dad" is blasphemy?

huh?

later...

reply to post by edmc^2


So really it's just an example (likely symbolic) of how trusting in God leads to victory. Not necessarily in battle, but probably victory over the concept of conflict in general.

Also, no people is any more God's people than anyone else.

reply to post by edmc^2


ok... can you imagine the pain of 40.000 died men and their families loss? didn't God tell them to go to the battle? An all love God wont do that to 40k men that trust in their God's word.
All that death, blood loss and pain just for the badness of some men of Benjamin? did you read the next chapter?
They destroyed a city, their men, children and women that didn't have sex, to give them to the remaining 600 Benjamin men.
Can you imagine an entire city devastated in name of an all love God?
Thats not the only part of the bible that makes me think its not the real Gods word.

Originally posted by edmc^2

I know Allah mean God - a title like Dad, but what is Allah's name?

There are 99 names for Alllah in the Koran; things like the guardian, the great, the giver of life, etc.

en.wikipedia.org...

It's the same God as in your bible so I really don't see what the name has anything to do with it.

And what blasphemy are u talking 'bout? Saying "their god" as in "their dad" is blasphemy?

You said "their god" as in he isn't your god, which means you just denied him as being your god. That's blasphemy according to your book.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by EarthCitizen23

 

if you follow what Jesus said. Which I do concur on this point.

Interesting, so your a quasi christian that likes what they read in the New Testament but hates what they read in the Old Testament, that's unfortunate, as that is the reality of history, and it's not all puppies and rainbows. Your comments strike me as someone who is confused by your own meditation and study, yet a believer anyways.
I hope you find the way, truly understanding Jesus Christ and his Father Almighty God and their purposes, before judgement strikes.

edit on 20-7-2011 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)

Thank you so much,,, I needed a good laugh. Obviously you read posts like you have read the bible,, for if you had read my post you would Know I am Far from being a "Quasi-Christian" whatever that is,,, I tend to agree with Friedrich Nietzsche who said: "The word "Christianity" is already a misunderstanding - in reality there has been only one Christian, and he died on the Cross."
I am a proud Heretic, Pagan and Gay if it matters to you,,, personally I tend to describe myself as Human, which keeps us all in the same ball park,, regardless of the arrogance displayed by those who think themselves privy to being on the 'inside 'Good team"
If you truly believe 'that is the reality of History',, I would say you obviously had a second rate Education that pandered to the Christian Bias, instead of a real education where you were taught to think clearly and logically for yourself. At least learn some debate skills before bringing yourself to a place where you will be trounced for not following the smallest particle of Logic in your arguments. Children argue like this, not adults with thinking minds.
"Puppies and Rainbows" !!!????!!!!

Again,,, did you read my post,,, did it sound like it was full of fairy dust? (pun intended,,, because I can make fun of myself and laugh,, I can imagine you will insert another F word to replace fairy,,, thats ok too)
I mean really,,, did my post come off as all Love and Light,,, I don't think so,, especially since we were discussing your Deity, (not a Love and Lighter himself),,,
I think you should return and reread my post. It might enlighten you.

I discussed Jesus,, because this is Your Lord,, whom I would think you would listen to,,, but I can see by how you cut out what I said in your quote of my post, and it would give another impression to those who might not have read it.
For further clarity.
I said.
"""The war in Heaven has divided humanity to the point now where it is almost hopeless,,,
Humans are waiting for someone to save them,,,, when the story of the Tower of Babel shows,,,,, We have to do it for ourselves.
The Kingdom of Heaven is Within,,,,, if you follow what Jesus said. Which I do concur on this point.
To bad Christians have not gotten this simple idea yet,,, they still hold out for Streets paved with Gold,, and domination over Non Believers. """""

To Christians, whom actually think,,, the message of Jesus would stand out.

The Kingdom of Heaven is Within.

You are all too hung up on Judgement Striking as you say. Waiting for God to Smite and strike down others. Like most Fundamentalist, you twist and subvert what was the Good News of Christ,,,, even I whom am not a believer can see that!!! I seriously think you need to worry about the Mote in your own eye before you start plucking at mine or anyone elses. Your Glee and obvious delight in waiting on Jahweh to Smite down the Unrepentant verges on Sadistic tendencies. You would do well to visit a therapist and talk about this issue.
As far as being Confused.
Not me. I am very much at peace with myself and my beliefs. I don't need to evangelize to promote what I believe,,, I Live it,
,,, it is called Walking Your Talk,,,, if someone likes who I am,,, they can ask,, and I will tell them about my journey.
Christians would do well,,, as Muslims and those of the Jewish faith to do the same,,, enough already,,, the big 3 have destroyed a good planet with their collective madness,, and the idiots they have programmed. Not all are contributors but the burden lay with the big 3 for Earths present state of affairs.

Your Bible threats don't touch me,, because you don't even know your own history or the Bibles for that matter,,, much less my souls..
When you can be less condescending,, I would enjoy a conversation. It would help to be just a bit more logical to further discussion, I think in reality,,, you are doing what is called Classic Projection,, and you are the One Confused.
That is alright,,,, still Love you as the Human you are today!!

With Lots of Puppies and Rainbows
and all sincerity
EarthCitizen23

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


Free will is a great thing, isn't it ?
For example we are all free to jump naked from the top of the Eiffel tower too.
However the law of gravity will punish us.
Humans intrinsically gravitate to justified thinking patterns, no matter how well educated they are, or how intelligent they are. So when the bible condemns certain life choices with laws of morality, it is no wonder people practicing those things condemned would rally against it, human psychology 101.

So now I really understand why you are posting the way you are.....carry on as you were.

reply to post by smithjustinb


You wrote:

["Maybe my semantic symbolic representation doesn't foster an accurate mental image of what I am referring to, but why can't you just admit that the words infinity and nothing are the closest semantic approximation to the ultimate absolutes as you can get."

I don't mind the words 'infinity' and 'nothing' being used as semantic approximations. What I DO mind, is when such "semantic approximations" mistakenly are used as axioms in a methodology of building 'arguments' as if language is identical with a mathematical equation, where you can follow logic procedure step by step.

There's a whole branch of linguistics relating to this, it's called 'general semantics', and imo opinion it is a 'must' for anyone believing, that word-constellations 'prove' anything. Coming from the invasive missionary, word-constellations are 99,99% oration, propaganda, rhetoric, sugar-coating, verbal cosmetics, scholastics or just plain hypnogogic repetition.

Quote: ["I really don't see how your argument is relevant. You, for some strange reason, believe that I can't mentally come up with an accurate mental image using my semantic symbology, but I'm doing it."]

If you can't understand or won't accept my answer above, enough information on the subject is available for you get a deeper insight in it.

Quote: ["In my head, the words I am using are accurate symbolic representations of the concept, so what is your argument here?"]

Words are seldom so precise, that they are synonymous with specific 'truth facets' of anything, and as you said, it's in your head. In other heads word-chains are different.

Quote: ["Are you just trying to tell me that you can't come up with an accurate mental image based on the semantic symbol??"]

It's mainly the methodology I'm critical about. And that's what I said in the recent post also.

Quote: [" Don't blame me and my conclusions for your short-comings."]

Sure, sure....a 'shortcoming' is disagreeing with a faulty methodology. A text-book example of semantic acrobatics.

On my part, end of this blind alley. This thread isn't supposed to be a deep-loding presentation of 'general semantics', and while a digression in that direction is relevant, it's not the main-topic.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by Garfee

 

Careful
Galatians 6:7a

Do not be deceived and deluded and misled; God will not allow Himself to be sneered at (scorned, disdained, or mocked

Ezekiel 38:23

"'I'll show you how great I am, how holy I am. I'll make myself known all over the world. Then you'll realize that I am God.'"

That is a promise that's coming.

Seriously, How hard is it for the alledged creator of everything that has, does and will ever exist pop in to say hi to us all so that we accept existence without question and then apparenntly don't go to hell?

It seems as though this god would rather a whole bunch of souls go to hell because it just doesn't make sense to believe in something no one has any proof of, just to ensure you don't go to hell if it happens to actually exist.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


You wrote:

["Free will is a great thing, isn't it ?"]

And in many fascist ideologies, it is praised and much talked about, but not actually intended to be applied.

Quote: ["For example we are all free to jump naked from the top of the Eiffel tower too.
However the law of gravity will punish us."]

That's because gravity (and electromagnetism) is the greatest belief-system on this planet. Far surpassing all other belief-systems together in number of 'believers'. The reason for it's popularity is, that it's build on something observable, not some mythological speculations desperately needing bad semantics for pushing them.

Quote: ["Humans intrinsically gravitate to justified thinking patterns, no matter how well educated they are, or how intelligent they are. So when the bible condemns certain life choices with laws of morality, it is no wonder people practicing those things condemned would rally against it, human psychology 101."]

And when christian propagandists run out of real arguments, pop-psychological comments on opposition is the last resort.

Quote: ["So now I really understand why you are posting the way you are.....carry on as you were."]

Do you actually have any competence in real psychology whatsoever, to make such claims.

And what about relating to the subject of the thread, christian epistemology-efforts, just a bit.

reply to post by bogomil


As a member of ATS for over a year you really should learn how to use the ATS quoting system...just saying.
It's the little box forth from the right at the top it says "Quote".

As for your post, like others, if you despise what the bible teaches both in morality and history that is your prerogative. But don't expect people like myself to just sit back at let you have free reign as you malign it.
If attacks are made, there will be a defense. That is what the OP is trying to do in this thread.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by EarthCitizen23


Free will is a great thing, isn't it ?
For example we are all free to jump naked from the top of the Eiffel tower too.
However the law of gravity will punish us.
Humans intrinsically gravitate to justified thinking patterns, no matter how well educated they are, or how intelligent they are. So when the bible condemns certain life choices with laws of morality, it is no wonder people practicing those things condemned would rally against it, human psychology 101.

So now I really understand why you are posting the way you are.....carry on as you were.

Again, and I agree with Bogomil your reply's lack much substance. Are we talking about Free Will Now? If so, I will post my research into Mind Control, and Cult subjects who tend to relinquish their Free Will for one line slogans, Cult Figure Messiahs, and of course what has been demonstrated here over and over,,, Circular Logic,, which gets none of us anywhere fast.
I wrote what I thought was a good reply to your comments,, and you leave me high and dry to only get to taste a small morsel,,,, hmmmmmm Free Will,,, is a great thing,,, guess you have the free will to ignore sound argument in exchange for platitudes and end of argument soundbites. Sad,,, I have read some of your posts and thought there was more intelligence behind the screen.
I realize when people are confronted with their own illogical beliefs and belief systems they hold,, it can be hard to let go.
I was there,,, but I promise,,, getting yourself out of stagnant and primitive mindset can be very liberating. I am not saying you have to turn to Atheist belief or anything,, but exploring the Archeological and Anthropological foundations of your religion would do you well. And I don't mean to go out and just look at Apologist findings,, but some of the best Info is always at the cutting edge of Philosophy/ science and most other fields. Branch out and look at what the opposing side is saying,,, and with that free will,,,, use an Open Mind willing to accept new paradigms when they appear in front of you.
You might want to explore some of the Alchemic traditions that Jung explored,,, because it is evident by your posts that you want to Project out,,, what is most likely your Shadow side peeking through all the mental barbwire you have erected for yourself.
Sometimes it is just healthy and good the Deconstruct your belief systems. It brings out the best in oneself because when done properly it makes one face the Demons that are present withing oneself. And these need not be spirit demons,, but psychological ones.
It could actually be done in a way where you explored other logical conclusions to your worldview in a refreshing atmosphere that still left your belief in Deity/Jesus/Yahweh at the head of your Spiritual Pyrimid, if you wished,, but with a transformed and more Alive soul and substance.

When you posted this:
""So when the bible condemns certain life choices with laws of morality, it is no wonder people practicing those things condemned would rally against it, human psychology 101"""
I realized you closed the door to good debate and conversation,, evidently due to my reference of my being homosexual, pagan. Christians tend to slam that door alot,, thus they loose out on a portion of humanity that is rich in talent, skill, and artistic ability. We are used to this and it is by no means a New tactic.
Sorta like,,,
Duck and Cover....
Avoiding reality for some desert Deities hangups about what his bedouin people did in their tents has no meaning for my life, nor most of Modern peoples. It is tiring to have Desert philosophy hammered upon us like it is the end all of cultural excellence when there were other cultures before with just as many Holy Men and Women showing the way to Spiritual evolution,,,, Regardless of your faulty history beliefs, there was alot going on before the Bible.. and not really like portrayed by said books.
Desert mentality was / is cruel, anti woman, sadist and if you don't believe me,,, look at the Jihadist. they are from that same mindset as you propose. Don't act as if what they do is not like what you believe,,, because it is very much the same. Bigoted, primitive and naive in light of modern science, and historical knowledge.
Leave this arrogant thinking in a sand dune in the desert where it belongs.

Rejoin the Human Race and be more flexible,,,, and open to the possibility that your deity is a Shadow of Humanity that we all need to face to get to another year. Gods and Goddess are our best Projections,,,, and Worst. We need to realize they are made in Our image as much as we theirs. His damage needs to be healed and holding onto the demons he has produced will only subvert the Free will you think so great.

So to you,,
Carry on,,, just don't brick yourself into a Spiritual void with no way out like it appears you have done.

.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Despise is a harsh word. Not sure I am on that boat,,, but I think defense tactics should include some logic,,, you point out ridiculous things,,,, such as quoting ,,,, instead of really responding to a post.

Maybe after all the time here you have had,,, you would learn to respond to what one says,,, instead of Sheilds up!! Deflect,,, Counter Attack.
We all do it,,, I understand,,,
but I have watched you consistently here avoid really speaking to what has been said,,,,
you give soundbite flippant response

at least Bogomil gave point by point response to your post..
Better some quote,,, no matter how,,,, as to none?