San Francisco Police Shoot and Kill Teenager over $2 bus fare GRAPHIC VIDEO

Question posed to ATS members on this thread; what would you have done if you were a cop, received a call about a fair jumper (big deal, give me a moment to finish my donut, tell my wife I love her on the phone and start the squad car, I will be there) and suddenly found yourself under fire from an armed gunman? Would you have simply left your gun holstered, hid, and hoped NO ONE GOT HURT? Would you have screamed "STOP THAT BAD MAN! SOMEONE COULD GET KILLED!" I am not a police officer, nor am I defending any actions police officers have made or will make. However, I am REALLY glad I am not a cop. Some are crappy, for sure. That is human nature, not everyone is perfect. Most do there jobs and uphold the oath they have taken, though. Serve and Protect. If I was on that same street, and a crazy man started firing blindly behind him because the cops were chasing him (interesting question and side note, why would you think you need to fire a gun and run due to a 2 dollar fair jump? turns out he was wanted in seattle in connection to a double shooting in which he killed a 19 yr old woman) I'd be like "Hell ya, shoot that b**ch! He almost killed me and my 2 year old to cover his own a**!". I guess as a society, we are looking for a passive approach to law enforcement? Not me. I'm not worrying about being shot by the cops because I never put myself in a situation due to poor decision making that would make cops NEED to shoot me. If you break the law, expect the consequences. I think my mom taught me that valuable lesson when I was 5. I PAY law enforcement to protect my butt from dingdongs like this, so if killing one man to protect many is evil, then send me to hell.

reply to post by OneEleven

The better question would be "Why would someone run from (and shoot at) police over two dollars?".

How the heck is that a better question?

In a communist country where the people are guilty until proven innocent maybe that's "a better question."
Here in America we are innocent until proven guilty and although running from cops is a POSSIBLE indicator of guilt ......It is ALSO a possible indicator of mental illness, INNOCENT PANIC (yes it happens where innocent people are so panicked at the situation they will react unpredictably - even for them) or some other retardation or mental handicap.

So the cops reaction is to shoot?

No. Not acceptable. Sorry, not acceptable at all.

we need a revolution, get these pigs back into their cages!

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by OneEleven

 

The better question would be "Why would someone run from (and shoot at) police over two dollars?".

How the heck is that a better question?

In a communist country where the people are guilty until proven innocent maybe that's "a better question."
Here in America we are innocent until proven guilty and although running from cops is a POSSIBLE indicator of guilt ......It is ALSO a possible indicator of mental illness, INNOCENT PANIC (yes it happens where innocent people are so panicked at the situation they will react unpredictably - even for them) or some other retardation or mental handicap.

So the cops reaction is to shoot?

No. Not acceptable. Sorry, not acceptable at all.

edit on 18-7-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

Running from police is not necessarily an admission of guilt like you said.

Conducting a block long gun battle with them, firing numerous shots on a city street in the daytime while you run is.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by OneEleven

 

The better question would be "Why would someone run from (and shoot at) police over two dollars?".

How the heck is that a better question?

In a communist country where the people are guilty until proven innocent maybe that's "a better question."
Here in America we are innocent until proven guilty and although running from cops is a POSSIBLE indicator of guilt ......It is ALSO a possible indicator of mental illness, INNOCENT PANIC (yes it happens where innocent people are so panicked at the situation they will react unpredictably - even for them) or some other retardation or mental handicap.

So the cops reaction is to shoot?

No. Not acceptable. Sorry, not acceptable at all.

edit on 18-7-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

He was shooting at police, and in turn putting innocent people in danger.....maybe you missed this, or just chose to ignore it...

Originally posted by thinline
"The deceased, a Washington state parolee wanted for questioning in the slaying of a pregnant woman in Seattle last week"

www.theblaze.com...

should be interesting to see how this unfolds.

His reason for running from police was indeed because he was a wanted murderer and convict.

As i stated before. I'm glad you lead this sheltered life, where the majority of people are innocent, and this type of scene is truly a rarity. But for the rest of us, who see this same sort of thing unfold daily, we may have a better understanding of the process and protocol needed to ensure that you CONTINUE to lead your safe and sheltered existence.

reply to post by dreadblitz

we need a revolution, get these pigs back into their cages!

People with extreme anti-police attitudes usually have had frequent run-ins with cops themselves. Blaming the "big, bad, lying, trigger-happy cops," is their way of avoiding responsibility for the stupid s**t they have done that brought police into their lives in the first place.

Once again, threads like this show how hateful on sites like this, people are towards the police. Facts don't matter. If a police shot someone, they are guilty, regardless. Even if the suspect had a gun. Obviously the police are lying.. because NO one REALLY has a gun. Only the police have guns. Everyone is a perfect, law-abiding citizen, and all cops are pigs who don't deserve the chance to protect themselves.

Also it's alarming how outspoken many people here are, when they apparently from their comments, have very little actual real life experience with crime, guns, and situations like these. Seemingly, just owning a gun makes everyone here an expert on all things related to crime as well. Amazing.

reply to post by OneEleven

Te He was shooting at police, and in turn putting innocent people in danger.....maybe you missed this, or just chose to ignore it... xt

No kidding.....I've seen that a lot in this thread. They aren't seeing past the OP's sensationalized thread title. I wonder how many even read the article before they commented here.

I haven't had a chance to catch up with all the comments that have been made since last night, so I don't know if anyone has posted this info yet, but my local paper said the police found the suspect's gun after reviewing the videotaped footage that witnesses had taken at the scene.

reply to post by DJLateralus

As the man was laying in blood, the witnesses just stood around video taping him. Why didn't they call for an ambulance?

Originally posted by speculativeoptimist

That doesn't make much sense, that they found it later. If there was a gun, would it not have served everyone better to show it at the scene and incident? Unless they found it somewhere other than on the guy.

edit on 17-7-2011 by speculativeoptimist because: (no reason given)

I think that's the Idea.....according to the story
"The gun, which was not found immediately after the 5 p.m. shooting in the city's Bayview District, was believed to have been taken from the ground as officers tended to the suspect, said police Sgt. Michael Andraychak.

Investigators were able to find the gun after a member of the public provided video taken after the shooting, said Andraychak. "

I take that to mean that someone (perhaps a buddy of the kid shot) nabbed the gun, so the police wouldn't find it....then someone provided a video of the incident (I'm assuming one different than this) that led the police to whoever took the gun.....or perhaps it showed where the second guy tossed it.....not sure the article was kind of vague on those details, but that's how I understood it, anyway.

I notice people here always immediately side against the cops, which I think is a very wrong attitude. While I am very much against any police officer abusing his power, and I am quite aware that such things happen daily, I don't think it's right to just assume that the cops are the bad guys here. If the evidence pans out, then it would appear that the kid really did have a gun. Whether he aimed it at the police, is of course, another aspect of the story that needs to be examined....but I see nothing in this video to cast doubt upon that story. Also I think it's fairly normal procedure to secure the area, beyond any doubt before aiding a suspect. The kid could have very well still had a gun on him. It wouldn't be the first time someone who's already been shot, shoots back.

reply to post by Section31


Why are freeway traffic jams caused by people slowing down to see an accident? Humanity started on the hunter/gatherer mentality. We smell blood, we want to see the kill, and twitter our friends about it.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by dreadblitz

 

we need a revolution, get these pigs back into their cages!

People with extreme anti-police attitudes usually have had frequent run-ins with cops themselves. Blaming the "big, bad, lying, trigger-happy cops," is their way of avoiding responsibility for the stupid s**t they have done that brought police into their lives in the first place.

Please think before posting such sweeping generalizations. I for one would not want to live in a world without police. On the other hand, I despise any police officer who abuses his authority, especially those who use violence against citizens or who apply lethal force when it is uncalled for.

There is no question but that these cops conduct in allowing that man to lie on the ground unattended for two or more minutes after they shot him, regardless of his past and any outstanding warrants, and regardless of what he did before he was shot, appears on its face to be outrageous police misconduct.

By letting him lie on the ground unattended while he bleeds to death was an execution. I don't know how else you could describe it. Not only did the four or so cops on the scene fail to attend to him, they prevented everyone else from getting close.

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
SF police recover gun after police shooting

(07-17) 17:44 PDT San Francisco, CA (AP) --

A gun believed to have been used by a suspect who was fatally shot by San Francisco police officers Saturday has been recovered by investigators, police said Sunday.

The gun, which was not found immediately after the 5 p.m. shooting in the city's Bayview District, was believed to have been taken from the ground as officers tended to the suspect, said police Sgt. Michael Andraychak.

Investigators were able to find the gun after a member of the public provided video taken after the shooting, said Andraychak.

"I do not know the source, but it does appear to have been taken in the moments after the incident," said Andraychak.

Looks like there is more to this story. Thanks for finding this article.

If people actually looked at the video, they would have saw a mass of people standing around.

We will have to wait and see when all the pieces are put together.

reply to post by SFA437

Just wondering... How does it feel to rush to judgement in defense of a double murderer of an innocent woman and her unborn child by a gun wielding maniac who not only shot her and 3 other people but shot at the cops as well... and then see the weapon being picked up by "witnesses" on video? You know... the ones you all insisted were correct in that he never had a gun in the first place...
I've never hit that level of epic fail and really would like to hear a first-hand account.

Here's your first hand account.

Just wondering though... if you actually read my post, or saw in it what you wanted to see?

I asked questions I felt needed answering before a true judgement on the case could be made. I also stated very plainly that so far what I understood didn't add up to automatic guilt for the alleged criminal. Leaving room for further evidence to surface after my post.

I do stand by my statement on judges. They are, imo, more interested in protecting the establishment than they are the truth, or the law.

In cases like this, I always looks at the police just as hard as I do the alleged perpetrator.

I don't think this firearm was taken off the ground by a friend intending to hide it from the cops.

A handgun is a valuable, easily sold, concealable commodity. I think the person realized the suspect wasn't going to be keeping it, nor wanting it back, so someone in the crowd decided to scoop it up either for personal use or for resale. The person taking it could have been a normal, productive citizen scared for his safety in a bad neighborhood in a state where it is illegal to arm yourself for defensive purposes unless you are celebrity, a politician or otherwise "connected".

I'd also point out there were also a LOT of people there and everyone and their little sister has a smart phone these days. I do not think we've seen the video of the onlooker scooping up the pistol and taking it off the scene.

Originally posted by thereisnotruth
reply to post by Section31

 

Why are freeway traffic jams caused by people slowing down to see an accident? Humanity started on the hunter/gatherer mentality. We smell blood, we want to see the kill, and twitter our friends about it.

When I see accidents occur, my first reaction is to call for help. Then, I analyze the situation to see if 'I can help' until an ambulance arrives. That is my first instinct.

Originally posted by thereisnotruth
reply to post by Section31

 

Why are freeway traffic jams caused by people slowing down to see an accident? Humanity started on the hunter/gatherer mentality. We smell blood, we want to see the kill, and twitter our friends about it.

The Piltdown Man was not clutching an iPhone.

Originally posted by dubiousone
There is no question but that these cops conduct in allowing that man to lie on the ground unattended for two or more minutes after they shot him, regardless of his past and any outstanding warrants, and regardless of what he did before he was shot, appears on its face to be outrageous police misconduct.

Unless, of course, that's exactly what SFPD policy dictated.

By letting him lie on the ground unattended while he bleeds to death was an execution. I don't know how else you could describe it. Not only did the four or so cops on the scene fail to attend to him, they prevented everyone else from getting close.

edit on 7/18/2011 by dubiousone because: Clarification

You mean letting other people get close who could destroy evidence? You set up a perimeter and attempt to preserve the crime scene.

reply to post by SFA437

Running from police is not necessarily an admission of guilt like you said. Conducting a block long gun battle with them, firing numerous shots on a city street in the daytime while you run is.

I did not want to see a teen getting shot by Police and so another poster here is right.
I didn't watch the video and see that the kid was shooting at Police. That is suicide and even I know that.

This does not supersede the fact Cops are over worked underpaid, improperly trained and so stressed out lately they seem on an anti-citizen rampage where lots of citizens are winding up dead or in jail thanks to simple and unadulterated....

OVERKILL.