The Forgotten JFK Assassination tapes

Remember the 3 hobos?

"Actor Woody Harrelson's Father Charles Harrelson confessed to the FBI that he was a member of the assassination team that shot the president. Harrelson was tried and convicted for the assassination of U.S. District Judge John Wood in San Antonio. While he was behind bars in the Dallas jail he told the FBI investigators that he was the hobo seen behind the fence beyond the grassy knoll and was one of the shooters."

Harrelson is the tallest hobo.

reply to post by NellahB


I typed all that into Google and the source I was taken to was Infowars... Any chance you can find a more "credible" one at least?

And I'm not convinced Harrelson is the tallest "Hobo" at all yet. Here's some pics to compare though:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/72562721e402.gif[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e6d86aa8766c.jpg[/atsimg]

I can see a resemblance. But nothing conclusive. For arguments sake though, here's some info on Harrelson:

Charles Harrelson was born in Huntsville, Texas, in 1939. After leaving school Harrelson moved to California where he eventually became an encyclopedia salesman. He later turned to crime and in 1960 was convicted of armed robbery. He was also believed to be a contract killer.

Jack Anderson, is one of those reporters who believe Harrelson was involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. In their book The Man on the Grassy Knoll, John R. Craig and Philip A. Rogers claimed that Harrelson and Charles Rogers were the two gunman behind the picket fence on the Grassy Knoll. It was also claimed that Harrelson, Rogers and Chauncey Holt were the three tramps arrested in Dealey Plaza on 22nd November, 1963. It was not until 1992 that the Dallas Police Department revealed that the three tramps were Gus Abrams, John F. Gedney and Harold Doyle.

In 1968 Harrelson, the father of the actor, Woody Harrelson, was convicted of the murder of businessman, Sam Degelia, in a contract killing in South Texas. After serving time he was released.

It is believed that in 1979 Harrelson was paid $250,000 by drug dealers to assassinate the John H. Wood. On 29th May, 1979, Wood was shot dead left his Alamo Heights townhouse. Wood, known as "Maximum John" for his tough sentences of drug traffickers, was the first federal judge to be murdered in the 20th century.

When he was arrested he confessed to being one of the gunman who killed President John F. Kennedy. He later withdrew this confession but he was eventually convicted of the murder of Wood and sentenced to two life sentences.

In 1988 Harrelson told the producer of The Men Who Killed Kennedy, Nigel Turner, that "on November 22, 1963, at 12.30, I was having lunch with a friend in a restaurant in Houston, Texas." He also told Turner that he would not have accepted such a contract as he knew that if he had, he would have ended up, like Lee Harvey Oswald, being killed by the Mafia.

In October, 1991, Chauncey Holt confessed to John Craig, Phillip Rogers and Gary Shaw about his role in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Holt's story was undermined in 1992 when the Dallas Police Department revealed that the three tramps were Gus Abrams, John F. Gedney and Harold Doyle. Ray and Mary LaFontaine carried out their own research into this claim. They traced Doyle and Gedley who confirmed they were two of the tramps in the photograph. Gus Abrams was dead but his sister identified him as the third tramp in the photograph.

In 1995 Harrelson attempted to break out of Atlanta Federal Prison. He was recaptured and moved to Florence Administrative Maximum Penitentiary in Colorado.

(Source)

Noticed in the above snippet he said he killed JFK.. well, here's why he said it, and in his own words:



Some more info on the 3 "tramps":

Frank Sturgis is thought by some to be the tall tramp in the photographs. Like Hunt, Sturgis was involved both in the Bay of Pigs invasion and the Watergate burglary. In 1959, Sturgis became involved with Marita Lorenz, who later identified Sturgis as a gunman in the assassination. Hunt's confessions before his death similarly implicates Sturgis.

Chauncey Holt, also alleged by some to be the oldest of the tramps, claims to have been a double agent for the CIA and the Mafia, and has claimed that his assignment in Dallas was to provide fake Secret Service credentials to people in the vicinity. Witness reports state that there were one or more unidentified men in the area claiming to be Secret Service agents.

The House Select Committee on Assassinations had forensic anthropologists study the photographic evidence. They were able to rule out E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, Dan Carswell, Fred Lee Chapman, and other suspects in 1978. The Rockefeller Commission concluded that neither Hunt nor Frank Sturgis was in Dallas on the day of the assassination.

Despite these positive identifications of the tramps and the lack of any connection between them and the assassination, some have maintained their identifications of the three as persons other than Doyle, Gedney and Abrams and have continued to theorize that they may have been connected to the crime.

(Source)

In summary... I'm not convinced Harrelson was involved in assassinating Kennedy at all.

Even Governor John Connelly protested the single bullet theory.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

then we see the head shot and his head is knocked back.

Well to be fair.. his head does make an initial forward movement prior to a violent movement back and to the left. Here's a GIF image of frames 312 and frame 313 of the Zapruder film to show what I mean exactly:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8aba2ea4b4fb.gif[/atsimg]

The head snaps to the right! That means the shot came from the left! Follow the light.

reply to post by yon34

The head snaps to the right!

No, he makes an initial forward movement, as shown in the image you yourself just linked, and then he clearly moves back and to the left into Jackie. Every person who has seen the Zapruder film knows this. Here it is once again:



I, for the life of me, have no idea where you got the idea he moves to the right. He clearly moves into Jackie thus moving to the left.

Originally posted by Rising Against
The head snaps to the right!

No, he makes an initial forward movement, as shown in the image you yourself just linked, and then he clearly moves back and to the left into Jackie. Every person who has seen the Zapruder film knows this. Here it is once again:

I, for the life of me, have no idea where you got the idea he moves to the right. He clearly moves into Jackie thus moving to the left.

Propaganda Techniques

"Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional response rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda. Propaganda can be used as a form of political warfare."

spirituallysmart.blogspot.com...

reply to post by yon34


What's that supposed to mean?

Have a look at the video, and read what the witnesses say. Kennedy moved back and to the left. There's absolutely no denying it - It's fact.

If you disagree.. Show why instead of attempting to make ridiculous and baseless claims.

EDIT: Here's frame 344. Notice how he's facing Jackie?.. It's because he moved to the left.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9876f0cbec09.jpg[/atsimg]

There, that should clear all of this up for you.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8aba2ea4b4fb.gif[/atsimg]

I'm no scientist. but the right ear is moving down and to the right, away from Jackie.

reply to post by yon34

I'm no scientist. but the right ear is moving down and to the right, away from Jackie.

I can't see any such thing. All I can see is the very clear forward movement of the head. I can see no turning to the left or the right at this point - the clear turning to the left occurs after.

The connections with him and Abraham Lincoln lead me to believe that JFK'S DEATH WAS A RITUAL

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946

Lincoln failed to win the Vice Presidential nomination in 1856.
Kennedy failed to win the Vice Presidential nomination in 1956.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

Lincoln defeated Stephen Douglas who was born in 1813.
Kennedy defeated Richard Nixon who was born in 1913.

Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.
Both wives lost children while in the White House.

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
Both Presidents were shot in the head.

Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.

Both were assassinated by Southerners.
Both were succeeded by Southerners.

Both Presidents had Vice Presidents named Johnson.

Lincoln's Vice President was called Andrew Johnson who served in the House of Representatives in 1847.
Kennedy's Vice President was called Lyndon Johnson who served in the House of Representatives in1947.

Both successors (their Vice Presidents) were named Johnson.
Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1838. (not 1839)!
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.

Both assassins were known by the three names.
Both names are composed of fifteen letters.

Lincoln was shot at the theatre called "Ford."
Kennedy was shot in a car named "Lincoln", made by Ford.

Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.
Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.

Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by yon34

 

I'm no scientist. but the right ear is moving down and to the right, away from Jackie.

I can't see any such thing. All I can see is the very clear forward movement of the head. I can see no turning to the left or the right at this point - the clear turning to the left occurs after.

Then I would submit that you don't want to see any such thing and/or don't want anyone else to.

Hi again Rising Against.

I am still busy with studying all your provided information, but I have a quick question.

What is your opinion about the film posted by knowneedtoknow here.

reply to post by knowneedtoknow


JFK assassination: Secret Service Standdown



I also stumbled on this one, sorry if it is already posted.

The Zapruder Film stabilized (Quicktime)

You must scroll down.

whatreallyhappened.com...

reply to post by yon34

Then I would submit that you don't want to see any such thing and/or don't want anyone else to.

Again with the ridiculous claims.

If I didn't want people to see anything, for whatever reason, I wouldn't post at all. Reason being, if I don't want them to see it.. I wouldn't post it. Pretty simple..

But, that's not happening here. I post on ATS for the sole reason I want to learn and I feel this is a great place to learn about this case in particular. Isn't that obvious? Do you think I post about it so much because I don't want people to learn the truth? Or I don't want myself to learn the truth? Really, because that is quite silly.

Anyway, again I find myself saying to you, prove what you're seeing is happening instead of the baseless claims. You're acting like a child who's annoyed because he isn't getting his own way, with all due respect of course.

reply to post by Rising Against


Found this info about the hobos.

I had forgotten all about the storm drain theory. Saw a program, years ago, about the storm drain. Someone went into the tunnel and to the drain ... perfect shot from the drain to JFK's head.

mcadams.posc.mu.edu...

reply to post by spacevisitor


Hey space.

This may not be the answer you or some others are looking for here but if I was to be completely honest, I don't feel the secret service were "pulled" or anything like that. I really don't.. that's not to say they didn't make mistakes or do things before the assassination that make you think "Hmm, maybe there's something in that", but looking at everything, I'm just not fully convinced yet.

In regards to the assassination: You see, the follow up car with the secret service agents was very close to Kennedy at all times, and when leaving Houston street, the crowds were practically gone. Main street for example was absolutely filled with people on both sides and it's here that the agents are out protecting the president as seen in other films. But, upon entering Elm street from Houston (Houston coming from Main), there's very few people on the street, and even now, the SS agents are still very close by.

The agents often stood on the follow up car instead of walking alongside Kennedy at all times also. So, the fact we see them doing it on Elm when we've seen them do it again and again leading up to that position, well, I didn't see it as a particularly odd action.

That's just my view on that though. We really mustn't forget the stories of the actions of the agents the night before though.. which was getting drunk until the early hours of the morning. This, as one would expect, being a huge "No-No" in this field of work. Why they chose to do this, who knows, but it was clearly wrong and I'm personally baffled by it.

Anyway, if you, or anyone else, really wants to learn a bit more about the secret service, particularly from the JFK years, look up the name Vince Palamara if at all possible - You'll learn a lot more through him than through me. Mainly as he's probably the leading expert on this issue. Here's a nice place to start: Vince Palamara: Blog.

Originally posted by yon34

Kennedy Assassination Discovery? The ‘Death Bullet’ on Film!
May 28th, 2009 by johnferrisrobben.
ourgreenwich.com...

"The following concept may have never been presented in public until now......."

ourgreenwich.com...
ourgreenwich.com...
ourgreenwich.com...

reply to post by NellahB


I'm really not a fan of that website if I was to be honest, It's one I've taught myself not to link as a source anymore primarily as there views seem incredibly biased. Now, don't get me wrong here, I actually agree with them on this issue in that the tramps aren't really anything significant.. but I thought it was best sharing my thoughts on that site in particular anyway, especially as It's one which seemingly went against what you originally believed in regarding the 3 "tramps".

I strongly suggest looking for a more credible source when wishing to debunk something. Many of there articles give the impression that anyone who disagree's with the official story is a crazy conspiracy theorist - this used in it's most negative way. It's frustrating to see and of course It doesn't help in finding the truth in the slightest, IMO.

I had forgotten all about the storm drain theory. Saw a program, years ago, about the storm drain. Someone went into the tunnel and to the drain ... perfect shot from the drain to JFK's head.

If you're interested in the storm drain theory, then here's what Jim Marrs himself once said about it on ATS:

I have heard about the possibility of a shot from the storm drain for many years and even met the daughter of a woman who said she and friends witnessed someone firing from the drain opening. But the mother refused to be interviewed and I have been unable to substantiate this story. I have always hesitated to discuss the storm drain because many years ago one of the earliest and best researchers, Penn Jones Jr., editor of the Midlothian Mirror, was ridiculed incessantly. Debunkers said he was claiming that Kennedy was shot "from a sewer." I have myself stood down in the storm drain which is located a mere six feet from the point of Kennedy’s fatal head shot. I could comfortably stand in this drain (I’m not too tall being 5’7”) and it would have been an easy pistol shot to a person sitting upright in an open convertible. Some witnesses said that one of the shots sounded hollow, had a ringing sound to it. And it could have been possible to leave the storm drain via a large drain pipe which connected to an opening behind the wooden picket fence on the notorious Grassy Knoll. But did a shot come from this drain? At the moment, there is not enough evidence to state yes, but it remains an interesting premise.

An interesting sidebar to this speculation is the fact that in the 1980s a section running vertically down the Grassy knoll collapsed. The Dallas Street Dept. found that someone had dug up a section of this drain pipe and cut away a piece about 2 feet X 4 feet and replaced the cut section. But instead of welding the section back, whoever did this simply replaced the section on the pipe and over time it gave way causing a collapse at that point. There was some speculation that perhaps an assassin had stashed his weapon in the drain pipe and was retrieved surreptitiously at a later date. This drain was connected to the storm drain at the foot of the Grassy Knoll.

(Source)

Jim being one of the most recognizable, and well researched, individuals in this case here, his opinion is more than valuable to have.

Amazing thread once again rising,i always look forward to your threads on the JFK conspiracy,learn something new everytime,so much infomation to take in but intriging as well.

I always wondered if deep down JFK knew somebody would try to take him out someway somehow,if he did know i don't think there was much he could have done about it.
watching it back as i have many many times i always get a sense of sadness knowing whats about to happen.

amazing thread

reply to post by rhynouk


Hey rhynouk, It's nice to see another UK resident interested in the JFK case here (I thought I was the only one here. ).

Anyway, personally, I don't think for a second he predicted his own death or anything like that, but in reply to what you asked, yes, he certainly seemed to know he would be a "target" or some sorts. How would I know this? Well, you might be interested to read this thread from ATS member RUSSO: President John F Kennedy predicted his own assassination (Don't let the title fool you though).

We also know of previous plots as well. Take Chicago for example - he cancelled his trip here just 3 weeks before he died, and he only cancelled it due to the same threats he received when entering Dallas, only deciding to continue on as it was a bad political move to avoid doing so. If he cancelled this trip as well then I'm sure he only would've been "hit" someplace else unfortunately.

I know what you mean about watching him prior to his death as well. It really is quite tough to watch at times, especially just prior to turning onto Houston street for example where we can see in the Hughes film JFK smiling and waving to the crowds. Little did he know that less than 20 - 30 seconds later it'll all be over.

Such a sad and unnecessary loss too. It really is.

Originally posted by yon34
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8aba2ea4b4fb.gif[/atsimg]

I'm no scientist. but the right ear is moving down and to the right, away from Jackie.



Look at the evidence(head moving to the right - followed by recoil) and explain the flash on 313 instead of ignoring because it doesn't fit the grassy knoll(fire cracker) scenario. As to producing much info, so did the Warren Commission, in order to obfuscate, confuse and provide cover.