Israeli police will not face trial over death of Palestinian girl

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Why is it always going in circles with you?

Arab (Palestinian) terror attacks started long before the so called “occupied territories” in 1967 and long before the establishment of Israel in 1948.

Each terror attack in the following link is verifiable:
www.lindasog.com...

the Palestinian violence has nothing to do with territories.
Their cooperation with the Nazi regime had nothing to do with territories.

There are poor people all over the world. Do they all engage in terror activities?
Most Israelis were extremely poor during the1800's and 1900th, yet they worked hard to improve their lives, instead of complaining and accusing everybody none -stop for their situation.

What you do, not as bluntly as BIB, is apologize for the Palestinian murderous behavior.

*

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The UN and especially the HRC is a sad farce.
Enjoy the reading:
www.unwatch.org...

reply to post by gravitational


HRW is an entirely different thing compared to the Commision on Human Rights and the UN. Human Rights Watch is an independent organization that dosen't come under the auspicies of the UN. Its nice to see your patern- Make up an entirely false statement and pretend that it is true, once proven false with a respectable source you then attack the source saying it has either an anti-Israel bias or is anti-Semetic, now that I have proven this false (as HRW is not the UN or HRC) I wonder what your next excuse will be.

The fact that so many resolution have been past against Israel in both the General Assebely and the Security Council (where it enjoys a freindly US veto when ever it is dearly necassary) speaks volumes in regards to Israel. Not volumes in the sense that the UN is anti-Israel but that Israel is obviously violating the UN charter which it is a signee to.

Arab (Palestinian) terror attacks started long before the so called “occupied territories” in 1967 and long before the establishment of Israel in 1948.

Yes obviously and at the time it the terror attacks were caused by somthing else- the Refugee problem. Infiltration (early terrorism) was a direct consequence of the displacement and dispossession of around 700,000 Palestinians in the course of the 1948 war, and the motives behind it were largely social and economic rather that political or military. Infact the best available estimate states that during the 1949-1956 period 90 percent or more infiltrations were motivated by social and economic concerns.

To stop infiltration Israel adopted a 'free fire' policy- in other words shoot first and ask questions later- which killed between 3000-5000 Palestinians- the majority of them unarmed. At the time Israel was unwilling to resolve the refugee problem- the right of return or compensation as dictated by international law.

Of course as there is today a minority (which is growing due to counter-effective measures which Israel has enacted) there was back then also a minority that wanted to either enact vengence for familly reasons not religous (fundementalist Islamic) reasons as there is a rather common consensus that Islamic fundementalist terrorism or martyrdom (through terrorist- suicidal acts) was almost non-existent up untill after the Islamic revolution in Iran. Infact much of the terrorism after and prior to June-1967 remained secular, it was not untill the 80's that Islamic terrorism really began.

Now there is almost one form of terrorism and that is Islamic fundementalism. The sad reality is that there are some religous sociopaths that want nothing more then to kill Jews, however, they are still a minority and Israel can take actions to prevent them from growing and then to skilfully destroy them. Making the lives of vunreable Palestinian youth a living hell will not help- as many experts of terrorism blame socio-economic factors for driving Islamic youth into fundementalist organizations. Hamas is rather intellegent- they combine a strong conviction to Islamic fundementalist principles combined with a large welfare and public sector providing basic needs which is only growing due to the destruction of the private sector by the Israeli blockade and 2008/2009 Gazan war. Infact most the measures Israel has taken has only increased the numbers of Islamic terrorists.
I have already outlines how to prevent and curb terrorism. These same measures could be undertaken in Iraq.

I suggest you read the works of Ze'ev Jabotinsky- probably the most intellegent and realistic of all Zionists. Jabotinsky published an insightful essay called "On the Iron Wall (We and the Arabs)". In this he realisticly outlines that Arab hostility would be inevitable and Israel must pursue a policy of a Iron Wall- showing its military dominance and proving that Israel cannot be beaten. He said "A voluntary agreement between us and the Arabs of Palestine is onconceivable nor or in the foseeable future". and "the sole was to such an agreement is through the iron wall, that is to say, the establishment in Palestine a force that will in no way be influenced by Arab pressure". He does not say that there can be no agreement with the Arabs (two-state solution) rather that Israel has to first assert itself as a regional power- which it has- and this has lead to peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt aswell as an agreement with the PLO. Now Israel must make some commitments and return to the pre-June 1967 borders. They must return land for peace as they did with Egypt (that worked).

Terrorism will remain- but it will be a fringe minority and it will only decrease overtime. However if Israel fails to act soon it will only get worse. It must choose between either security of expansion- there is no way that it can have both and history shows this. Every empire collapses.

There are poor people all over the world. Do they all engage in terror activities?

Are they all occupied by a foreign power? No... and the ones that are largely do. Take a non-muslim example. The IRA.

Most Israelis were extremely poor during the1800's and 1900th, yet they worked hard to improve their lives, instead of complaining and accusing everybody none -stop for their situation.

Most the world was poor during the 1800's and 1900's. The Industrial Revolution, innovation and democratic government eventually changed this along with the hard work of many. What is the point?

What you do, not as bluntly as BIB, is apologize for the Palestinian murderous behavior.

No I clearly don't. If I did I would be essentially promoting it. What I want is to investigate a meaningful solution. What you seem to be doing is apologizing and even advocating murderous Israeli behaviour.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The UN and especially the HRC is a sad farce.

How is this relevant to the debate anyway? I cited HRW not the HRC.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


I'll address the HRW later, but..you obviously didn't read a thing.

“Yes obviously and at the time it the terror attacks were caused by somthing else- the Refugee problem. Infiltration (early terrorism) was a direct consequence of the displacement and dispossession of around 700,000 Palestinians in the course of the 1948 war, and the motives behind it were largely social and economic rather that political or military. Infact the best available estimate states that during the 1949-1956 period 90 percent or more infiltrations were motivated by social and economic concerns.”

What refugee problem caused the pogroms before 1948? there were none. 1920 ? 1929...and on and on.
What caused them to cooperate with the Nazis ? There were no refugees then.
Like I said' it's always in circles with you.

“to stop infiltration Israel adopted a 'free fire' policy- in other words shoot first and ask questions later- which killed between 3000-5000 Palestinians- the majority of them unarmed. At the time Israel was unwilling to resolve the refugee problem- the right of return or compensation as dictated by international law. “

Is this a joke? Unarmed? What crazed propaganda have you been reading lately?
International Law? Right of return ? Hahaha, only if you are the aggressor. Sorry to tell you, but Israel was not the one starting a war with Jordan in 1948 or in 1967.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Indecently, 6 rockets were fired yesterday from Gaza, 3 today so far.
Don't whine when IDF retaliates .

Oh, I can't wait for the dummies to announce: “HAMAS is Israel's creation”

reply to post by gravitational

What you do, not as bluntly as BIB, is apologize for the Palestinian murderous behavior.

You're quite selective in what you read mate..

I have clearly stated that I will ALWAYS condemn the killing of civilians,especially women and children..

But it is YOU that seems to ignore the actions of Israel with their illegal settlements which incites the Palestinians and gives them a reason to retaliate..

Why don't you condemn that ??

reply to post by gravitational

Indecently, 6 rockets were fired yesterday from Gaza, 3 today so far.
Don't whine when IDF retaliates .

Oh, I can't wait for the dummies to announce: “HAMAS is Israel's creation”

In other news,
In the last FEW DAYS, Israeli warplanes have been bombing Gaza..

Retaliates is the correct word but you appear to have it backwards.

reply to post by gravitational


Most of the infiltrators were unarmed (1948-1956). Provide information to the contrary if you don't believe so.

Yay now HRW cannot be used as a source according to you either. Neither can Moshe Dayan quotes or Ben Gourin quotes. Neither can official Israeli documents. Infact according to you the only source I can use are ones like www.israellycool.com and www.virtualjerusalem.com. You are such a blatant hypocrit. You can use biased right wing Israeli sources, but when I cite an impartial source that critisizes Israels human rights record- it is complete hogwash according to you. Honestly I've never seen posts as cheap as yours. Constantly derail the topic, bait people into off-topic discussion, accuse them of hating Israel, don't provide any sources and when you do they are ones like www.israellycool.com, make accusations and claims yet provide no evidence, claim the evidence someone else provides is skewed from reality yet you do not explain how and if that fails attack their source.

For someone who claims to tell the truth, you seem to be doing a whole lot of lying.

If you are going to adress Human Rights Watch, let it be known they have on multiple occasions condemned Hamas and they are far more respectable then any Israeli source I have read.

It's good to see you adress only a few selective points of my argument and try to derail the subject when you can't cope. What's your solution in curbing terrorism? Building a few more settlements for security reasons? Enacting a martitme blockade that only strengthens Hamas and weakens the private sector? Killing a few more innoccent Arabs forcing more to become terrorists?

I think I care far more for Israel and the Jews then you do. I wan't them to live in a safe secure state while you seem to want to accelerate terrorism.

Hamas wasn't Israel creation but there is no denying that Israel supported Hamas a terrorist organization in order to compete with the PLO.

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by gem_man

 

"witnesses say"

ok, real hard evidence there.

riiiiiiiight.

At least YOU are on topic. Actually witness' are considered "hard evidence" In courts of law the world over. The point is the police NEVER launched an investigation over the murder of the little girl. Can you imagine a child being killed by a drive by shooting and the police refusing to investigate?

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Hey mister terrorists apologist.
Why can't you answer these simple questions ?

What refugee problem caused the pogroms before 1948? there were no refugees. The state of Israel hadn't been born yet.
What caused the pogroms in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936, 1937, 1938,1939...and on and on.

What caused them to cooperate with the Nazis ? There were no refugees then, yet they planed to build an Auschwitz like camps in the land Of Israel.

Why till this day, they use the same Nazi salute....don't tell me. Because they are poor and refugees.

When was the last time you visited Hebron, Ramallah, Gaza city? Oh ...never. And you still have the nerves to lecture us on their living conditions. When was the last time you visited Wadi Ara, Um el Fahem ? Oh...again never.
Yes there are poor Palestinians, there are also poor Israelis. In fact, there are poor people all over the world. Do they all engage in terror activities?

Why is it that after 1967 Israel offered 'land for peace', yet the Arab world response in Khartoum was:
“no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiation with Israel” also known as the “ three nos”. I know I know....poor Palestinians and refugees.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


As promised, here is my response to to the great unbiased honest organization called HRW.
I'm not at all surprised you chose them as a source for your unsubstantiated usual rantings.
But instead writing my own thoughts, here are the words of the HRW founder:

AS the founder of Human Rights Watch, its active chairman for 20 years and now founding chairman emeritus, I must do something that I never anticipated: I must publicly join the group’s critics.

“Leaders of Human Rights Watch know that Hamas and Hezbollah chose to wage war from densely populated areas, deliberately transforming neighborhoods into battlefields. They know that more and better arms are flowing into both Gaza and Lebanon and are poised to strike again. And they know that this militancy continues to deprive Palestinians of any chance for the peaceful and productive life they deserve. Yet Israel, the repeated victim of aggression, faces the brunt of Human Rights Watch’s criticism”

www.nytimes.com...

But there's more. Corruption and conspiracy in HRW? No way ha?

“Joe Stork, formerly Advocacy Director, and now Deputy Director of HRW's Middle East and North African division, revealed his radical anti-Israel leanings as early the 1970, when he and several others started MERIP, the Middle East Research Information Project, because they deemed existing leftist critiques of U.S. support for Israel "inadequate.". Stork wrote about the "revolutionary potential" of Palestinian violence and of "liberating Palestine" through the "struggle against (Zionist) imperialism." He took part in a "Zionism and Racism" conference in Iraq under Saddam Hussein and has repeatedly attempted to delegitimize Israel in his writings and pronouncements, with false characterizations and allegations.”

www.camera.org...

reply to post by gravitational


Really for a man that stepped down in 1998, he seems to know little about his organization.
HRW condemns Hamas on multiple occasions.
www.hrw.org...
www.haaretz.com...
www.hrw.org...
www.hrw.org...
www.hrw.org...
www.hrw.org...
www.hrw.org...
www.hrw.org...
www.hrw.org...
www.hrw.org...
www.hrw.org...
www.hrw.org...
www.hrw.org...

So that blows the claims of impartiality out of the water. Of course there will be INDIVIDUALS in HRW as there are INDIVIDUALS in the GOVERNMENT that will have a personal Israel or personal Palestinian bias. But to deny that they are impartial is lying. Your source is an OPINION piece not fact, and the man uses little evidence to back his claims.

His major complaint is that it does not highlight the things that Israel does to safeguard civillians. Frankly that is not their job. Their job is to report on human rights abuses, not become a front for Israeli propaganda.

What caused the pogroms in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936, 1937, 1938,1939...and on and on.

A combination of a fear of diversity, racism, increased Jewish immigration, Jewish retaliation and fear of Zionism. The same thing that caused the cronalla riots in Australia (targeted at Arabs) and multiple hate crimes in the West. So because a few bigots pursue violent acts suddenly every Arab is a murdering racist?

It is nice that you are resorting to your final tactic: Attacking me for not visiting Israel. So I guess I can't comment on Chinese human rights abuses, Nicaragua, Latin America, Africa, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Chile, Argentina, America, Uruguay, the Phillipenes and Indonesia. I can't comment on American Imperialism in the Middle East and Latin America either as I have not visited any of these countries. If that is the case please refrain from commenting on any country (including Middle Eastern countries) which you have not visited or simply shutup and stop being hypocritical.

Why is it that after 1967 Israel offered 'land for peace', yet the Arab world response in Khartoum was: “no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiation with Israel” also known as the “ three nos”. I know I know....poor Palestinians and refugees.

Israel made no formal commitments or ratified promises of land for peace. Infact it took Egypt many years of diplomacy to achieve a deal for Israeli withdrawal as Israel wanted to keep settlements in Sinai. Yet Israel still achieved peace with Egypt and Jordan, it could have done so with Syria as well. So the three no's are irrelevant. Land for Peace worked.

Anyway, according to you which sources can be used? I used Amnesty International as well- another respectable impartial source.

Anyway, according to you which sources can be used? I used Amnesty International as well- another respectable impartial source.

I'd say for them, any site with a star of david on the homepage..

Do not allow Gravatational and Lemon Fresh to hijack the thread! This thread is about the murder of a little girl and the courts allowing these police to walk without even an investigation. These other issues have NOTHING to do with this thread. These guys DO NOT want you to comment on the barbarism of the police, they would rather pull you into a political argument. Ignore the off topic challenges.

reply to post by gem_man


“pull you into a political argument”

Political argument? Why did you write this thread in the first place, if not as a political argument that - magically relates to Israel, and – Surprisingly is about bashing Israel?
After all, your expertise in the Law, the witnesses you interviewed and forensic evidence all brought you to the conclusion it was a murder. Not, god forbid, because the shooters are Israelis.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant

A combination of a fear of diversity, racism, increased Jewish immigration, Jewish retaliation and fear of Zionism. The same thing that caused the cronalla riots in Australia (targeted at Arabs) and multiple hate crimes in the West. So because a few bigots pursue violent acts suddenly every Arab is a murdering racist?

a few bigots my Arse...Like I said, A terrorist apologist.
Good enough reason to build a middle eastern Auschwitz...by a few bigots.
And I didn't even have to go back to 1800's when the terror attacks began.

And oh, those poor “unarmed” Palestinians. You mean the Palestinian fedayeen right ?
en.wikipedia.org...

How many years and how many thousands of rockets and suicide bombers did it take for the HRW to issue a few condemnations against Hamas?....things that makes you go hmmmmm

Land for peace? The Arabs do not deserve the land. They attacked and lost, and no international law is by their side.
The Palestinians refused 97% of the territories how many times? But hey, according to you they are poor so their terror attacks are understandable....Apologist for murdering cowards is exactly what you are.

reply to post by gravitational


You will hapily condemn Arab bigots yet not Jewish bigots. Jeez a Jewish terrorist leader (Irgun) became the primeminister of Israel- Begin.

HRW has a long history of condemnation agimed at Hamas. Just because you choose to put your head in the sand, dosen't change the fact that they condemn all human rights abuses they witness.

The fact that there were armed infiltrators dosen't change the fact that the majority of infiltrators were unarmed and acted out of socio-economic reasons.

The Palestinians refused 97% of the territories how many times?

This is blatant BS and you know it. Shlome Ben Ami already said he would have rejected these "territorial concessions" if he were a Palestinian. Israel firstly offered minimal concessions- 4% only: would be entirely governed (including security) by the Palestinian authority, with other small areas only having civic governing and much only being governed by Israel.

The other offers were not 97% as you say and were not so simplistic. They essentially would have cut the West Bank in half and encircled Arab areas. The so called concessions were a complete joke as pointed out by both Shlomo Ben Ami and Ehud Barak.

As for you claiming that no international law is by their side- Well this is just another case where you have openly lied. Although I don't expect much from you as you have been caught lying on multiple occasions.