Where do the loyalties of Israeli /American dual citizens lie?

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy

Originally posted by gem_man
So it would be OK with you if Israeli Arabs held important posts within the Israeli government? Of course you know that will never happen.

Wow you sure are mis-informed. Arab Knesset members
And that includes Haneen Zoabi, who even got to participate in the first flotilla.

I stand corrected. I meant to point out if a future PM gave decision making positions to Arabs there would be a lot of suspision as to their true loyalties.

reply to post by gem_man


Yes it is targeting those with dual citizenship between the USA and Israel. Don't you read your own spew?

-Nevermind.

I have to agree: Government officials (more so important government officials) should not be premitted both dual citizenship and there position. There are some alarming changes in trends in foreign policy when dual citizens are holding high priority government positions (i.e when Henry Kissinger served under Richard Nixon): Although Henry Kissinger was rather stern with Israel due to his realist persepective, we clearly saw a change in policy- both due to Kissingers sympathy and Nixons pro-Israel bias (often Israeli government officials would bypass Henry Kissinger and go straight to Ricahrd Nixon to elicit even more support).

Paul Wolfowitz was a chief advocate of the second gulf war which clearly was a positive for Israel. One could say there is a conflict of interest here. Was he advocating the secound gulf war in order to serve Israeli interests (which were and are clearly evident)? While this is only specualtion it remains rather alarming.

But far more importantly then having a pro-Israel bias is the fact that at time (wether sometimes or at all times) these government officials -who are suppose to be serving the people of America not Israel- may put Israel ahead of American citizens. A prime example of this is the $3 billion of military aid sent to Israel when the US is in dire economic straits.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by kro32

 

Proof isn't the point the OP is making. There is a conflict of interest here. People holding dual citizenship shouldn't be allowed to be in any government decision making. The chances of their decisions being biased is just too great.

Yes, I agree. And I have to ask-- why dual citizenship ONLY for Israelis? Why???

Odd this came up as I had long conversation last evening with two friends with dual citizenship. Both women are of the type that put them as what humans should become and do. They live in small handmade homes, using out houses to save the environment and stay as far away from all government interference here and there as possible.

The one that was born here, studied there and is an amazing artist and is loyal to both countries. She told me if this country falls apart then Israel will follow and she will return to fight for it's survival and she is an expert with a rifle. The one that was born there, is far too crippled to consider this possibility. However the second woman is the builder. Imagine taking a lady into your workshop and she gets excited over you jointer, planer and all the hand tool, what a lady.

They related a little history to me also. The American went there and found that a lot of what she was taught in school about Isreal was pure BS after living there for several years. I suppose our reality and theirs are two different things, but it was an eye opener.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Then again another point for permiting dual citizenship has to to with equality and imigration. I myself hold dual citizenship, why shouldn't others hold dual citizenship?

It raises an interesting debate that should be held. Should important government positions be allowed to be allocated to those with dual citizenship? I am actually on the fence with this one.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Here in Australia we have a PM who is British born and holds dual citizenship. A Prime Minister for pete's sake who was never elected by the people but only got in because of a winfall from 4 independants. Do I care? If she does her job properly I don't care if she comes from timbucktwo. If she screws up, we will demand her resignation or have her toppled at the next elections.....which is exactly whats going to happen. Not because of where she's from, but because she's been caught lying.

Many citizens don't hold dual passports because they don't have immigrant parents or grandparents. I have dual citizenship too but if I really want, I'm entitiled to 4 passports. I have 2 but I only use one of them.

I know Greeks that have dual U.S./Greek citizenship.

Even Greeks born in the U.S. can have dual citizenship.

here is a U.S. State Dept page;

travel.state.gov...

In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. [color=cyan]The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. [color=tan]Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.

it is not up to the US Govt.

I have no problems with dual-citizens serving in government AS LONG as their position has no direct correlation, influence, interest or association with their other citizenship's country.

Looking at the list posted by the OP however screams the exact opposite. To take it step further, you could also research the Israeli-owned defense contractors and service providers who happen to have associations either directly or indirectly with the people listed in the OP

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by gem_man

 

If you outlaw dual citizenship for government officials you might as well state that they can have no family in other countries and no ties whatsoever. Something along those lines.

since when do officials publicly swear an oath to family members abroad?

Dual citizens shouldn't work in any position, where a possible conflict of interest exists. They have no place in the DoD, national security complex or foreign policy departments. But there is no reason to ban their employment in other areas like the FDA or EPA. Here the revolving door is abused by other players. For example former Monsanto employees and lobbyists shouldn't work in these areas.

There is a strong pro-Israel bias in Washington, and it is easy to prove.

Israel is the top recipient of US foreign aid:
www.vaughns-1-pagers.com...

For Israel the US uses constantly her veto-power in the UN security council. These vetoes have damaged the standing of the US in the muslim-world.
www.krysstal.com...

No other ally spies as aggressively as Israel inside the USA. Dual citizens are embraced in every administration. Exposed spies rarely have to fear repercussions. They are simply let go. Knowledge about their treasonous acts is not published.
whatreallyhappened.com...

Spies are traitors in every sense of the word, unless, of course, if one is spying for Israel. Israel aggressively spies on the US both to influence policy and steal high technology, but getting caught only very rarely has any consequences. Leading neoconservatives like Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, and Stephen Bryen have all been detected in flagrante providing classified information to Israel but the investigations were halted and their security clearances were godfathered so they could continue to hold high office.

FBI counter intelligence officer John Cole has reported on the frustration of his colleagues over the many cases of Israeli espionage that are dropped under orders from the Justice Department. He provides a "conservative estimate" of 125 worthwhile investigations into Israeli espionage in the US involving both American citizens and Israelis stopped due to political pressure from above. Israeli citizens and diplomats who are caught in the act spying are routinely freed without criminal charges and allowed to return home.

original.antiwar.com...

The Neocons were the leading force which drove the US to war. All Neocons are Zionists. Many are also dual citizens. Their ideology calls for empire, militarism, theatre wars and dominance. They have strong ties to the MIC. The main motivation of these men is impossible to determine. Why did they engage in warmongering and lies? It could have been loyalty to Israel. But their political philosophy and opportunity for personal enrichment might have been at least equipollent motivations.

Some Neocons are not only dual citizens, who have questionable loyalties, they have openly worked for both Israeli and US-administrations. Wurmser, Feith, and Perle have worked for the Netanyahu administration in 1996. No man can serve two masters. They produced a white paper, which gave advise what Israel needs to do, to secure its position as hegemon of the region. One aspect of the paper was the ousting of Saddam Hussein. Attacks against Syria, Lebanon and Iran were also on the agenda. Later while working in the Bush-administration, they started to implemented these policies.

If the Neocons would have been successful, more wars could have been fought in the Middle East.


To further their war-plans, the Neocons created a special propaganda/intelligence office, called the Office of Special Plans. This office was headed by Douglas Feith. Much of the faulty prewar-intelligence was produced by this office. The normal flow of intelligence analysis was circumvented. Decision makers gained a false impression.
en.wikipedia.org...

Zionists like William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer were also signees of PNAC. They worked for the media. They received “leaked information”, provided by the Office of special plans and “Israeli intelligence” and spread them. Judith Miller, the girl-friend of Scooter Libby did the same. These journalists acted as multipliers. Later, when all this information turned out to be based on lies, no one was held responsible.

I highly recommend watching the excellent documentary war by deception from Ryan Dawson. The video and audio of this documentary is poor and it is 3 hours long, but this documentary provides the ultimate exposure of the lying warmongers. The newest version can be accessed here.

if war breaks out in israel, all israeli citizens are required to go and fight.

this should answer the majority of the questions in this thread.



coincidentally, if war were to breakout in america the majority of them would run off to israel. like in the gulf war.

Originally posted by gem_man
..Incidently, ONLY Israelis are permitted dual citizenship.

Care to cite & source EXACTLY what US regulation supports this crazy statement?

i would also like to interject that not all "dual citizens" owe allegience to nations abroad.

theres plenty of american indian citizens right here at home.

i am an american citizen and a citizen of the chickasaw nation, would you have a problem with me holding a position in office (for that reason?)?

Their loyalty lies absolutely, 100%, with Israel. This is a prime example of how Israel controls the US. Anybody who doesn't hold (at the very least) some sympathy towards Israel will not get into a position of power. The Israel lobby groups wield enormous power and are VERY generous to pro-Israel candidates, and if any person seeking a position of power dares to speak out against Israel......well......they're branded an anti-Semite and will find it hard to get anywhere. Ideally - as the examples mentioned above - they're very, very, pro-Israel.

By the way, I am NOT anti-Israel.........if anything, I usually defend their actions in most cases

reply to post by Curio


Well, I have family who had and some still are in the armed forces of the IDF and I also have many family who were wiped out in the Holocaust. I also have family - well decorated ANZACs (WW1, WW2, Burma, Vietnam, Korea) and I had an uncle, a pilot, in the British airforce in WW2 and almost lost his life in the King David Hotel when it was bombed in 1946. I had an uncle that spent 2 years in a Japanese POW camp. May I also add, I had two forefathers that fought in the American civil war, one on each side.

Where do you think my loyalties lay now?

reply to post by new_here


Very good question. It really raises a red flag in my opinion.

Jews stick with Jews. Plain and simple.

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by kro32

 

Proof isn't the point the OP is making. There is a conflict of interest here. People holding dual citizenship shouldn't be allowed to be in any government decision making. The chances of their decisions being biased is just too great.

What about all the people in congress that has sworn loyalty to Israel? Imo these people should be kicked out of office if they want to give their loyalty to another county.