UK Gets First "Sharia Controlled Zone".

Originally posted by pplrnuts
It sounds to me like the Brits lost their balls and are weak spineless floor mats to be trampled over.

Sounds like someone hasn't bothered to read the thread...

Originally posted by pplrnuts
They call Americans 'lazy' but NOTHING is more lazy that allowing all of their RIGHTS to be taken away,

What "rights" have we had taken away. Enlighten me.

Originally posted by pplrnuts
and now this BARBARIC SICK TWISTED nonsense being shoved down their throats on their own HOME-SOIL by savage barbaric foreigners and their idiotic sick beliefs.

A couple of nobheads in a secluded street in some random part of the country is now extrapolated to "nonsense being shoved down their throats on their own HOME-SOIL by savage barbaric foreigners and their idiotic sick beliefs"? Talk about a leap of faith!

Originally posted by pplrnuts
Very pathetic. Dont EVER insult any American ever again nor anyone else on the planet until you all grow some balls and stand up for your people and your land..

Er, we do. The OP may have not, for whatever reason, but you're now generalising to the extreme.

reply to post by pplrnuts


I agree. We had it all, we had one of the best nations on the planet, we had a free society, good people who looked out for each other, and never crapped on those who were down and out whether it was their fault or not, and tough love was dished out when required.

Now, we have people who walk past and ignore those down and out, at best maybe throw a bit of spare money at them to feel better. Let the charities deal with them, after they have been used and abused by predators to rob them of what little they had left. Families dont stick together, they sell each other out for personal gain.

And then when you point out everything wrong with British society, rather than listen and take note, you become a target of even worse behaviour. And they wonder why the Muslims want to change things.

reply to post by pplrnuts


Says a man from a country that is getting overrun with illegal immigrants and who have never raised up against anything in their lives.

And don't even mention 1776, it was nearly long ago to be regarded as genuine history and it was basically a bunch of wealthy European elites fighting each other over money.

Originally posted by Firefly_
I agree. We had it all, we had one of the best nations on the planet, we had a free society, good people who looked out for each other, and never crapped on those who were down and out whether it was their fault or not, and tough love was dished out when required.

I'm sorry, what? What utopian land is this your fantasising about? If anything, society is much more secure and looks out for the weak and poor much more now than they ever did! Back in the 18th and 19th century, it was illegal to be homeless or poor and you'd be rounded up and put into a workhouse to labour pointlessly in slave like conditions for a meagre grant of food and a bit of floor to sleep on!

Originally posted by Firefly_
Now, we have people who walk past and ignore those down and out, at best maybe throw a bit of spare money at them to feel better. Let the charities deal with them, after they have been used and abused by predators to rob them of what little they had left.

The people of the UK are incredibly generous. See how much the cough up for Comic relief, Children in Need and the Tsunami appeal for example. Charities are actually far better and more efficient at dealing with thse issues than single people. What would you suggest?

Originally posted by Firefly_
Families dont stick together, they sell each other out for personal gain.

What familes are these? You're speaking about something that is totally alien to me. My family sticks together, doesn't yours? If not, then thats your familes problem, not a national one. And even then, it's hardly a symptom of modern society.

Originally posted by Firefly_
And then when you point out everything wrong with British society, rather than listen and take note, you become a target of even worse behaviour. And they wonder why the Muslims want to change things.

Because you generalise, belittle, misrepresent and just plain get it wrong, then advocate that the Muslim way is better opr that they are trying to improve things. I;m sorry, but no matter what way you cut it, our society is a damned site better than any society you'll find in a Muslim dominated country.

I have an Nigerian friend who often speaks out about how England needs to stopped getting walked all over by Mulsims a lot of the time I ignored her because she comes from a country where the chrisitan /Muslim divide causes war and blood shed and I thought she was being bias. But there is this sense that to speak out against it makes you racist, or fear mongering or brainwashed, yet the truth of it is, we have heard more and more of these instances going on in the UK and I can't work out where it is going to lead.

I have no problem with the muslim community but extremists need to understand there are already places with Sharia law in place and they should be the ones the bend to suite their needs instead of the country they are in.

Originally posted by stumason
I'm sorry, what? What utopian land is this your fantasising about? If anything, society is much more secure and looks out for the weak and poor much more now than they ever did! Back in the 18th and 19th century, it was illegal to be homeless or poor and you'd be rounded up and put into a workhouse to labour pointlessly in slave like conditions for a meagre grant of food and a bit of floor to sleep on!

I concede you have a point, but I am referring to more recently than that. Yes things did get a lot better, but things have gone downhill in the past 30+ years.

The people of the UK are incredibly generous. See how much the cough up for Comic relief, Children in Need and the Tsunami appeal for example. Charities are actually far better and more efficient at dealing with thse issues than single people. What would you suggest?

Yet they fail to help those closest to home. A few kind words, a bit of respect, you know, things money cant buy. But yeah, money is the answer to everything in this world.

What familes are these? You're speaking about something that is totally alien to me. My family sticks together, doesn't yours? If not, then thats your familes problem, not a national one. And even then, it's hardly a symptom of modern society.

Just because its alien to you, does not mean it does not exist for others. From what I have read of your posts you seem incapable of any sort of empathic understanding. There is a huge problem with broken families, homelessness, domestic abuse, etc. Its not good for the image of the country so its swept under the carpet but I assure you its very real. I have known a lot of people in my short time on this planet and I have seen the same patterns everywhere I have been.

Because you generalise, belittle, misrepresent and just plain get it wrong, then advocate that the Muslim way is better opr that they are trying to improve things. I;m sorry, but no matter what way you cut it, our society is a damned site better than any society you'll find in a Muslim dominated country.

I generalise based on my experiences. As I already said, everywhere I go its same people, different scenery (and even that isnt much different). If you feel hurt because I generalise then maybe its because I am striking a nerve. I also have said multiple times, its not everyone, there are those who do rise above the ever decreasing standards of Britishness. And if you dont fit the generalisation, then you wont be offended.

Getting back on topic: There is a real threat to UK and the rest of the non-Muslim countries. That threat is Islam!

4% of the UK population is Muslim
12% of the UK prison population is Muslim

According to current statistics, Muslims constitute around 12% of the male and female prison population, more than 4 times their representation in the wider population.

Source

Muslims represent between 11 per cent and 12 per cent of the male and female prison population in the UK – almost four times their representation in the wider population.

Source

The percentage is much higher in other European countries, particular France whose prison population is estimated to be comprised of between 50 - 70% of Muslims!

Originally posted by Firefly_
I concede you have a point, but I am referring to more recently than that. Yes things did get a lot better, but things have gone downhill in the past 30+ years.

Then you must be talking about the post-War period when, to be honest, people had no choice but to chip in, do their bit and help the nighbours, because everyone had nothing!

With the advent of wealth in the past 30 years (the country has got a lot richer), even the "poor" have big TV's and can go out to the pub every weekend. I know, I have been "poor" and homeless at one point yet never went without because of friends, family and neighbours.

Originally posted by Firefly_
Yet they fail to help those closest to home. A few kind words, a bit of respect, you know, things money cant buy. But yeah, money is the answer to everything in this world.

I feel bad for you that you think this, as it isn't my experience at all. Like I said, I've been homeless before and found friends were more than happy to put me up so I could get back on my feet.

Originally posted by Firefly_
Just because its alien to you, does not mean it does not exist for others. From what I have read of your posts you seem incapable of any sort of empathic understanding. There is a huge problem with broken families, homelessness, domestic abuse, etc. Its not good for the image of the country so its swept under the carpet but I assure you its very real. I have known a lot of people in my short time on this planet and I have seen the same patterns everywhere I have been.

First of all, I can empathise, but that doesn't mean I have to sympathise.

I know people have problems, but this is hardly unique to the UK or even the West. You're taking a general issue with humanity at large and condensing it into a "Britain is broken" message. Every where you go, you will find homeless, poor, hungry, broken familes and domestic abuse.

The thing about Western society is that, by and large, the help and structures exist to get you out of it, if you're willing. You wouldn't find the same help in Saudi for domestic abuse that you would in the UK, for example. In fact, the Saudi's will just claim it doesn't exist at all!

Originally posted by Firefly_
I generalise based on my experiences. As I already said, everywhere I go its same people, different scenery (and even that isnt much different). If you feel hurt because I generalise then maybe its because I am striking a nerve. I also have said multiple times, its not everyone, there are those who do rise above the ever decreasing standards of Britishness. And if you dont fit the generalisation, then you wont be offended.

I don't feel "hurt" because you hit a nerve, I feel "hurt" because you are taking the worst on offer, which you can find ANYWHERE and claiming it to be a uniquely British probloem as a result of our broken British society.

reply to post by stumason


Like you, I can only go by what I experience and witness for myself. You are fortunate you had people to help you, some of us don't get that luxury. I appreciate what charities do, because without them I would probably be dead. But as the saying goes, charity begins at home, yet so many homes are broken (whether you accept it or not) that charities are necessary.

Britain is supposed to be one of the best countries to live in. Its this reputation that is the main reason the immigrants risk their lives to live here. However, once they get here the grim reality of the true nature of this hole hits them when they are mistreated by ignorant idiots.

British people are very proud of their nation, yet that pride only extends as far as their own ego. When it comes down to it and they are tested with real issues, they fail! I have seen so much # and so many apathetic people who just let it happen when its totally within their power to prevent it. They usually come out with some excuse like "they could help themselves" or "use the system" to absolve themselves of responsibility. Yet maybe its the system they have tried to use that has failed them because it is flawed and abused by others. It really is not so simple. Or maybe it could be, some people are just looking for a bit of compassion, some encouragement, a reason to go on.

Do you understand where I am coming from? The people of this country should be better, and know better, and have compassion towards their fellow man, regardless of race, gender, status, etc. Those who are different, who are poor, or otherwise disadvantaged are trod all over while people continue their rat race in order to get to the top.

reply to post by Firefly_


I can see the general thrust of your argument, yes, but I do not agree it is a uniquely British problem. You can fidn the exact same attitudes the world over. There will be people who concentrate solely on their seleves, but then there will be others who go the extra mile. The majority will fall in the middle.

But by and large, people in the UK are nice people. I have seen time and again stories of people saving strangers from flooded rivers, or even as recetly as yesterday, a woman saved a 13 year old girl stuck in quicksand on a beach when the tide came in. She left without even giving a name after the girl was saved.

If you want to look for the bad, all you will see is the bad. Look for the good around you and I can ssure you, it is there and writing off our country as a "hole" full of "selfish, ignorant" people is not only offensive to us who are good people, it's giving the wrong impression to everybody else, fuelling the fire between people.

If you keep banging on about how crap and horrible this country is, then that is all people will here and then, god forbid, they will think that maybe, just maybe, these Islamists might have a different and viable choice, when in reality they do not have all the answers and only intorduce even more problems.

You claim to be against racism and bigotry, but allowing these idiots a look in and supporting their claims our society is doomed will only mean those things increase.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

Next time you should be polite and offer them a beer Maybe your unexpected reaction will be to your advantage, as they might be surprised. Rise and shine

In Denmark, police can issue a ban on people to enter certain areas. It has recently been given to a member of a gang, who thought they had the right to "control" an area, by denying people access,This is an area, where the authorities are made ​​aware of the problems, a little group are making for all the others.
Probably no coincidence, that one finds a police station in the center of this area.

reply to post by stumason


As long as British society continues to function the way it is, it will leave the door wide open for anyone who wants to abuse it, regardless of who they are or what fairy tale they base their life on. You only have to look at the people at the top of the pyramid and what they get up to, to know what it is like. The fact they are there, and remain there with very little opposition, shows how much the people of this country REALLY care about others.

As long as the majority are comfortable in their own lives they see no reason to rock the boat, yet fail (or not care) to realise their excessive luxuries and comfort means there are people going without. Without putting down good works, its easy for someone to do something that will give them glory. Yes someone should be commended for rescuing a drowning person - but what about a depressed person who wants nothing more than a smile and a few kind words, and they cant even deliver that, and that depressed person ends up harming themselves, or worse, because they have no hope? People here tend to look the other way unless they can somehow benefit from things.

All I am trying to do is get people to see it from the point of view of someone who has had the misfortune of being on the "different" side of society. I do not want extremist Muslims to take control at all, and I dont see how drawing attention to the (seemingly non-existant) downside of British society will make the situation worse. What IS making the situation worse is the apathy of the British population, both in regards to corporate/political corruption, and political correctness.

If the people of this country were as good as you like to think they are, then the current corrupt political climate would be overthrown, the corporations culled, the petty laws made for income repealed, and business returned back to where it belongs - the local communities. But I dont see that ever happening as long as people are victimised and exploited because of their differences to the norm.

reply to post by Firefly_


Why should anybody care to listen to what you think about anything? When you say things like this:

Firstly, British people are fundamentally selfish, ignorant and intolerant. Sure, there are those who are genuinely not, but they are rare. There are those who are openly "tolerant" but as soon as they are behind closed doors, they drop the act. Any difference is fair game, be it ginger people, downs syndrome sufferers, muslims, gays, too fat, too thin, the list goes on.

Your opinion on ANY subject means NOTHING to anyone with common sense after a statement like that.

reply to post by sean_uk


And this is exactly the type of closed-minded response that causes people like me to form these conclusions. I think the only reason you concentrate purely on that is to avoid you having to do any actual thinking, because that would show YOU up for what you really are.

we are certainly materially richer than we were 40 years ago, but morally we are in poverty.

Everyone will be going round in circles to the point that these changes will happen because they have no moral basis to stand on. Once you have lost the foundations you cannot stop another system building upon the ruins because that society is too weak even if it is the most barbaric moral code being applied.
Everyone is going round in circles about this argument because they have lost faith in God and don't up hold his word, slowly the foundations are being eroded which will lead to revolutions, protests and separation in communities.

The big picture is that we are being tested for our generosity towards all people, which is fair enough, but don't be surprised if this is a global mind set for a peaceful one world government and currency to get the world out of this mess with some fake spiritual leader to add to the topping once it happens.

Man can be generous and tolerant towards all people and cultures but if you lose your own sense of law and religious conducts you are open for the sharks to take everyone in by surprise which in itself is self destruction.

This so called peace on earth when all religions and nations become so nice one day and live without war and famine is a dream, it works in sci-fi but in Bible Prophecy that is all dream and will happen once the Messiah arrives after we end up nearly destroying the world. Without God we won't find a peaceful solution and society and nations will carry on being barbaric towards each other.

The next point is since the forces of evil will cash in on the troubled times like some dressed up con sales man the world has to watch out for that too before any peaceful era begins and there are many doing that in walks of life but in the smaller scale of things pretending to be the solution only to hide the small print at a price of your own freedoms.

reply to post by Firefly_



Well now you have framed your comments in a more reasonable manner. OK here are the choices.

On my right: Free market enterprise. every man for himself and god for us all! Yippeeee. Except the first thing the free marketeers do is to try to control the market by protecting their own.

On my left: Communism. I should support this doctrine except "coincidentally" you always get a minority who seek to be the cadre and get more than everyone else. Look at the soviet union.

The problem is simply one of human nature and greed.

So what is the solution?

Please tell me,

reply to post by The time lord


Until god himself is willing to step up and turn this hell into paradise, we are stuck with flawed, corruptible systems. The problem with including a god who is never around to make his will known is that people will presume to know god's will and enact it on his behalf. This has led to untold amounts of bloodshed throughout the ages. Getting rid of this type of influence is a step in the right direction. The foundation is rotten. You are right, we do need to start again from scratch, but this time keeping superstition out of it. The Americans had the right idea, but like everything, people found a way to exploit it.

reply to post by Tiger5


If I knew the solution, I would be trying to do something. I honestly dont think there is a perfect system, no matter what people try, there will always be a way to exploit it. There will always be those who suffer at the expense of a few who want it all, its human nature.

reply to post by stumason

Operation Ajax, as it was known in the UK, was also a major US operation too. That said, the Shah was the main reason why the youth and Islamic leaders rose up, due to his brutal supression of any opposition to his rule.

What do you know about the propaganda tapes made by Khomenei in France? How was Khomenei supported by the British government?

Why ask the same question twice? BP had no role to play in Operation Ajax, it was the Anglo-Persian Oil company which went on to form part of British Petroleum which was formed in 1954 and BP did not exist until 1998.

I see your 1954 and raise you 1901. You see, this issue goes back further than your brief history.

In May 1901, William Knox D'Arcy was granted a concession by the Shah of Iran to search for oil, which he discovered in May 1908.[16] This was the first commercially significant find in the Middle East. On 14 April 1909, the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC) was incorporated as a subsidiary of Burmah Oil Company to exploit this.[16] In 1935, it became the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC).[16]

source - wiki

Not to forget how the West hates democracy when it is not in their favor:

The AIOC withdrew its management from Iran, and organised an effective boycott of Iranian oil. The British government – which owned the AIOC – contested the nationalisation at the International Court of Justice at The Hague, but its complaint was dismissed

I wonder why the British government wanted to overthrow the democratic government of Iran at the time. Did it have to do with oppression of people? Oh no it did not, on the contrary, it was LACK of oppression of a people, namely the Iranian people.

So why did the Shah then remove the pro-Western puppet that was put in its place, I wonder why he took a firm stance against the puppet government and its followers after he got back. Maybe he saw how they planned to loot Iran blind. FYI, all this talk against Muslim extremism; the Shah who you are badmouthing ordered police onto the streets of Iran to take the hijab off the heads of women who wore them, he said it was demeaning to their Iranian nationality as Islam is not part of Iranian culture.

Again, enjoy wallowing in ignorance. There is this thing that's called distance decay. And the more biased you are and let others(such as the media) turn you the more you will fall victim to it. Deny ignorance.