41.7% of all americans dont pay income taxes!

OP, I personally believe this topic should be debated at a very high level, and with the public until it is fixed. You are correct the tax system is not fair. However, the reason most of that 41% is not paying taxes, is because they work 2,3 jobs and cannot make a living. I do not agree that we should allow corporations to pay less then a living wage, and then talk about how much money we spend on entitlement programs. To me the entitlement programs themselves exist as a subsidy for FLAT and FALLING WAGES, while at the same time INFLATION is occurring.



So yeah, not really the fault of the corporations in America, they are just trying to stay competitive in the market, but I truly say it is the fault of free trade vs. fair trade w/ a fiat currency. I'll take free trade all day long with a Gold backed currency.

Originally posted by Zaanny
How bought you take your unconstitutional income tax and stick it where the sun don't shine....

Personally if Americans had a big set of brass nuts they should collaborated together to file exempt from income tax and bring down the military industrial complex ....

People seem to forget THE STATES have all the power.. But we let the FED dictate our lives to us and bleed us dry

edit on 7-7-2011 by Zaanny because: (no reason given)

I agree, im on your side, Im being sarcastic in my OP, my point in the matter is if your going to raise taxes, how about you make the 41% who dont pay anything start paying alittle bit. even if its 1% i dont care, just make them pay some.

yes income tax is a unconsitutional but i dont see us not paying it anytime soon

Many people are under the assumption that they actually pay taxes simply because they have money withheld out of their paycheck, while they completely fail to realize that when they get all of that money back in the form of a refund, and sometimes even more through the various credits available (EIC), they are in fact not paying a dime in taxes. The only thing they are doing is giving the government an interest free loan.

To reiterate the point: If you receive a refund in the amount of the total of your withholdings, you are not paying a dime in income taxes.

reply to post by camaro68ss


Its because they don't make enough to even qualify for the lowest tax bracket.

Or they qualified for enough credits and exemptions to eliminate their liability.

Originally posted by TheMisanthrope

To reiterate the point: If you receive a refund in the amount of the total of your withholdings, you are not paying a dime in income taxes.

Are you?

I'm not. Nobody I know is. Nobody I know ever has as far as I can tell. I expect that sort of thing would be announced with great joy should it happen.

Often I end up paying them more every year. Because they just didnt take enough from me. Like they were all done raping me but just had to come back to piss on my face before they left.

The most I ever got back was $1. I framed the check.

Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Its because they don't make enough to even qualify for the lowest tax bracket.

Make it so they qualify. if there going to suck from the system, they should pay right? If the 41% started to see there money go bye bye in taxes i bet you you will see a great change in this contry and the way handouts are done.

if i was in the 41% and had to pay no taxes what am i going to vote for??? MORE HANDOUTS!

reply to post by camaro68ss


Those people that do not pay income taxes are the rich, mind you. Normal folks don't have a ton of deductions to claim against the income taxes. You have to invest, reinvest monies to get deductions. So the 41% are most likely the middle-class to lower-class (e.g. the working class).

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Those people that do not pay income taxes are the rich, mind you. Normal folks don't have a ton of deductions to claim against the income taxes. You have to invest, reinvest monies to get deductions. So the 41% are most likely the middle-class to lower-class (e.g. the working class).

you guys think there are these magical loop holes and deductions. yes there are some, and if your freinds with Obama like GE then there is alot. but for the most part small companys get hammered with taxes

The real deal is this:

According to American law, you do not have to pay income tax.

The real problem is finding a lawyer who will fight it.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by stupid girl

 

Perhaps.

But:

According to data from the U.S. Department of Labor, the number of Americans who are self-employed hit its lowest level in eight years in August. Individuals working for themselves dropped 13 percent last month to 8.7 million - down 7.2 percent from the beginning of the recession. link

Even if there was rampant lying to the DOL that's still a hair shy of 40%.

edit on 7-7-2011 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)

Right. According to data from the U.S. Department of Labor.
So I'm assuming that this government data would be from those who are actually reporting themselves as "self-employed" entrepreneurs.
Which would not include the employees being paid by small businesses, nor those who's income is commission-based, nor the service industry, nor the building/construction employees, etc. etc. etc.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


Actually if the rich were smart ( and most super wealthy are), they end up earning their "income" from investments and paying the lower capital gains tax as opposed to the higher income tax. Thats the smart way to do things.

Income tax is a fraud...PERIOD...

Fear keeps the sheeple in line...

www.youtube.com...

this is a misrepresentation of data...

this 41% pays taxes, but in the end it is returned to some of them.

of this 41%, how many just barely break even or only get back $50 in a return?

of that 41%, how many of them are taxed each and every pacheck?

of all the money that is collected from this 41%, how much of that total is actually returned from refunds?

and finally is there interest gained by the IRS from holding those billions of dollars for a year before refunding part of it back to the public?

not paying taxes is quite easy to get away with, just don't sign the contract at the begining of employment that states you AGREE to pay the taxes. then there is no contract between yourself and the government making you pay it.

problem with that is you will be hard pressed to find employment that allows you to work without that contract...

unless you are an illegal working for less pay, in which case the employer and employee are both withholding taxes from the IRS.... of course isn't that the point of hireing someone 'under the table'? to avoid extra taxes...

You know what they say about assuming, though. The truth is that a good many people who wind up not paying income taxes at all make considerably less than that. Being that around 50k is the median income in the U.S., I'd say that it's very likely that most of those people bring in inconsiderably less.

In any case, your numbers don't make sense. The working population is less than 200 million, and yet you're using 127 million as 41% of taxpayers?

True figures would probably yield a number that is considerably less, though I do agree that it's b.s. that people can actually get back more than they put into the system.

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck

True figures would probably yield a number that is considerably less, though I do agree that it's b.s. that people can actually get back more than they put into the system.

My friend, that is the very essence of socialist redistributionism.

I always wonder about people who bring this up -- it is not the rich it is generally the 60 - 80 k per year crowd - why are they so protective of the wealthy or corporations. They are generally the people who want something for nothing.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck

True figures would probably yield a number that is considerably less, though I do agree that it's b.s. that people can actually get back more than they put into the system.

My friend, that is the very essence of socialist redistributionism.

again, people seem to be missing the point...

every week, 200,000,000 working people pay taxes taken directly from their paychecks before they even see it.

if on average, each person pays $50 then each week the IRS is taking in $10,000,000,000, thats over 5 trillion dollars a year.

are you telling me that the IRS does not use that money to make more money? even if put into a basic savings account making 0.3% interest, they are still making over 1.5 billion dollars in interest off of our money, and I am willing to bet they are getting way more than 0.3%...

also, my wife pays her taxes like everyone else, but she also gets back extra because she is a full time student, she is also head of household, and we have 2 children...

those things add up and ultimately her return is double what she actually paid throughout the year in weekly tax deductions

are you saying that the government should just keep all the extra money they earn from interest for themselves, or is it alright that people get back extra because they are trying to better themselves, or are taking care of their families?

reply to post by camaro68ss


Guess what? 30 years of deregulation and corporatism have destroyed the working class in this country, and many of those jobs have been replaced with jobs that don't come close to paying a livable wage versus inflation in medicine (380% since 85) food (300% since 85) fuel (nearly 400% since 85) and shelter (which has rightly taken a beating but is rebounding in spite of the fact that a normal 3 bedroom home can never historically "cost" more then 3 to 4 times the average wage for the county the home is located in).

You want more taxpayers? Destroy economic policies that drive wages through the floor while raising fixed costs through the roof.

Originally posted by DARKCYDE_CROWLEY
The real deal is this:

According to American law, you do not have to pay income tax.

The real problem is finding a lawyer who will fight it.

its not even about fighting it... people willingly agree to pay taxes when they fill out the paperwork(w2 I think) upon gaining employment

this is a contract saying thet you agree with the income tax and will pay it automatically via your employer

find a job that doesn't require you to sign a contract and you can avoid FEDERAL taxes completely

State income tax is a little different, states have the right to tax income, the federal government does not... unless you agree to pay it(which nearly everyone does)

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
Guess what? 30 years of deregulation and corporatism have destroyed the working class in this country, and many of those jobs have been replaced with jobs that don't come close to paying a livable wage versus inflation in medicine (380% since 85) food (300% since 85) fuel (nearly 400% since 85) and shelter (which has rightly taken a beating but is rebounding in spite of the fact that a normal 3 bedroom home can never historically "cost" more then 3 to 4 times the average wage for the county the home is located in).

You want more taxpayers? Destroy economic policies that drive wages through the floor while raising fixed costs through the roof.

Bingo.

I agree the bottom 41% should pay taxes.

Tax the wealthy more = The middle-class and lower-class income will naturally rise.

Than they can pay taxes.