NYPD Cops going at it after one assaults a handcuffed man **Video**

reply to post by SFA437

Using your own statements in regards to the brotherhood and K9 training- the "dog" is the officer manhandling the suspect. The "puppy" is the officer intervening.

I don't see how you came to this conclusion.

The good 'dog', is the intervening officer, obviously better trained than his partner, which I would more liken to a 'pit bull' that has been 'trained' in the wrong manner. Neither are 'puppies', IMO.

reply to post by Kitilani


I think most of my issues come from shooting everything through my own personal prism, how I trained the rookies assigned to me, how I was trained by my FTO and how excessive force was dealt with in my old department.

The nonsensical crap I've been seeing posted here such as the ticketing incident in Rochester, Mr. Guerera and the 69 year old guy being killed, this video and others have actually opened my eyes and pushed my normalcy bias out of my head.

Things like this did not happen on my watch in my department and if they did they would be dealt with severely. No slack was cut for officers screwing up- they went home without jobs.

Then again NC is a right to work state with no unions for police/Sheriffs so when an officer screwed the pooch there was no PBA/FOP representative to bail him/her out.

reply to post by SFA437

I also saw an officer utterly lose his cool and manhandle the suspect like a rag doll. That is not only unprofessional but could have caused injury to the suspect. THAT got my blood boiling.

That makes me think that you were a good cop, along with numerous other posts of yours that I have read, including the one where you noted that you were instrumental in making sure that many bad cops didn't get a chance to continue in their ways(I think you said it was 19?).

I am glad that you were there to do that. But again, you did it because it was the right thing to do, correct?

reply to post by butcherguy


Internet communication is a PITA sometimes

What I am saying is that you speak of the brotherhood and everyone sticking together no matter what within the police community. By saying so that would mean that the norm for officers is to tolerate whatever another officer is doing- in this case tossing a handcuffed man around. Using the K9 analogy the norm amongst officers would be the "dog" behavior.

Since the norm is tolerance of officer's misdeeds by other officers and the norm being "dog" behavior patterns then any action outside the norm, such as intervening on behalf of the suspect, is "puppy" behavior. Since this behavior is something we wish to see more often, and outside of an established norm, praise is justified.

Not wanting to start an argument- just trying to get my point across that the officer who intervened broke from the pack mentality to do something right (in our eyes) that will most likely be viewed as wrong amongst other officers.

ETA: This guy said it better than I did but this was essentially my point...

reply to post by Hardstepah

the saddest part of this whole thing is what happens off the camera to this "good policemans" everyday life.

cops don't like when cops play against cops, and this man's career will probably be left to nothing more than traffic tickets now. sad that doing the right thing is always punished in this country

Originally posted by Hardstepah
the saddest part of this whole thing is what happens off the camera to this "good policemans" everyday life.

cops don't like when cops play against cops, and this man's career will probably be left to nothing more than traffic tickets now. sad that doing the right thing is always punished in this country

Yes, that's the 'brotherhood' that some cops will not admit exists.

But it is there.

Originally posted by DankKing420
reply to post by Newbomb Turk

 

if only a video like this would go viral. that cop deserves a medal especially if the one he just stood up against has any pushing power in the department to make his life hell. S+F for the OP and the police officer

He prob will get fired for doing the right thing....

somehow some way

reply to post by SFA437

Since the norm is tolerance of officer's misdeeds by other officers and the norm being "dog" behavior patterns then any action outside the norm, such as intervening on behalf of the suspect, is "puppy" behavior. Since this behavior is something we wish to see more often, and outside of an established norm, praise is justified. Not wanting to start an argument- just trying to get my point across that the officer who intervened broke from the pack mentality to do something right (in our eyes) that will most likely be viewed as wrong amongst other officers.

Thanks for making that more clear. I understand where you were coming from now.

I was looking at things from the perspective of what the norm should be in the police community, as viewed by citizens that want to trust the police as a whole.

Originally posted by Manhater
This video has no bearing on bad cops.

1] Why is the guy being detained in the first place? We don't know.
2] The guy is obviously crying wolf with "OMG help me" and the cop isn't even beating him. Grown man, please, I would expected to see some bruising on him.
3] The guy is obviously being resistant.
4] I would of beat the guy up, just to shut his mouth.

You have to admit he was annoying and the officer wasn't even doing anything.

I know of 6 pressure points that could have you crying like a little girl....and 3 of them would only look like i'm holding your hand....

Everyone would think you are a baby.....

You don't need to get beat to feel pain.....try having somebody twist your wrists....

Or are you the Ricky Bobby type who would let somebody break your wrists to show " how tough you are " ....

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by CodexSinaiticus

 

Any lights on in there?
I spent more of my waking hours interacting with deputies and state cops than I did sleeping for quite a few years.
I know cops personally. What's so hard about that for you?
There is a brotherhood.
Ever heard of the Fraternal Order of Police?

Now, I'll ask you if you know what the definition of fraternal is?

I'm not going to google it for you.

The Fraternal Order of Police is a line organization, understand?

It is actually more like a union, like the teamsters, but has a different name. For example, IBEW The international BROTHERHOOD of electrical workers.

Up north, the organization is more like an Elks club down in some southern states they provide legal representation and in some municipalities negotiate contracts on behalf of officers.

In NY, members of the FOP get cheaper life insurance (group rate) and other small benefits for their 45 bucks a year. I hope this answers your questions, questions that you would not have to ask if the relationships you cite are actual and not imaginary.

Again you speak of you relationship with various officers and agencies, I called Bull# two times already. Would it do any good if I said it again? I simply do not believe you, sorry.

BTW, if an electrician commits a murder, would another member of his union cover for him? I mean they are members of the brotherhood, right?

Again, your ascertains are ridiculous.

My View on Policing:

I acknowledge that police are human beings and make mistakes. Some make more mistakes than others.

A perfect illustration of this would be the cop who arrested that lady who was videotaping an incident from her own property. That guy deserved serious punitive action! If he tried to enter my property to do that, it wouldn't have been that easy.

But to suggest that police officers conspire to cover up murders is crazy, I have said this to YOU in several posts, yet you seem to gloss over this point.

Support your post or reverse yourself! Or hide in the corner.

I am guessing it's door number three for you.

reply to post by CodexSinaiticus

BTW, if an electrician commits a murder, would another member of his union cover for him? I mean they are members of the brotherhood, right?

Knock knock... (taps on head) Anyone home in there?

How many electricians do you know that are tasked with arresting people for crimes?

Police officers have a little power that you have to take into account for this subject.

I know personally of three automobile crashes where the operators were well beyond the legal limit of alcohol intoxication and they either were a cop, the spouse or friend of a cop. None of them were arrested, even though in two of the cases the vehicles were demolished and in one case the operator was hospitalized.

It shouldn't help to know someone that's a cop when you break the law.

reply to post by CodexSinaiticus

Support your post or reverse yourself! Or hide in the corner.

Are you saying that a police officer has never conspired to cover up a murder?

The indictment charges four officers – Kenneth Bowen, Robert Gisevius, Robert Faulcon and Anthony Villavaso – in connection with the shootings, and charges those four officers and two supervisors – Arthur “Archie” Kaufman and Gerard Dugue – with helping to obstruct justice during the subsequent investigations.

Free Republic: DOJ release

Oh, sorry, that's four.

More about it:

Michael Lohman, a retired New Orleans Police Lieutenant, pleaded guilty to a federal obstruction charge on Wednesday in New Orleans, admitting he participated in a conspiracy to cover-up the unjustified shooting of six unarmed people on Danziger Bridge in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina

Source

Two peoples lives were snuffed out by police officers, and four other officers conspired to cover it up. You say it doesn't happen.

But to suggest that police officers conspire to cover up murders is crazy, I have said this to YOU in several posts, yet you seem to gloss over this point.

Who is crazy? Hmmm.... You a cop?

Originally posted by Newbomb Turk(actual cops knowing right from wrong and actually willing to step in and express it on a fellow cop):

They don't and they won't they are drunk with their own perceived power. like a 9th grade hall monitor given a 50 cal machine gun to keep the other students in line. Today's out of control
police will harm/kill anyone they do not recognize as blood kin to them. Constitutional granted rights are no longer of any concern to them. They have sworn their loyalty to another class but not the taxpayer.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by CodexSinaiticus

 

Support your post or reverse yourself! Or hide in the corner.

Are you saying that a police officer has never conspired to cover up a murder?

The indictment charges four officers – Kenneth Bowen, Robert Gisevius, Robert Faulcon and Anthony Villavaso – in connection with the shootings, and charges those four officers and two supervisors – Arthur “Archie” Kaufman and Gerard Dugue – with helping to obstruct justice during the subsequent investigations.

Free Republic: DOJ release

Oh, sorry, that's four.

edit on 6-7-2011 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

Ha ha, you cite an indictment as proof?

Grand juries would indict a ham sandwich (google that) an indictment is necessary before a criminal complaint can go to trial.

Indictment does not a conviction make, were these persons convicted? NO!

More evidence that you know absolutely nothing regarding the subject matter. Nothing!

But, keep making things up as you go along, this is fun.

reply to post by CodexSinaiticus

Ha ha, you cite an indictment as proof?

I knew that was coming, ding dong.

Look again at my post, I put the rest of it in for you.

reply to post by CodexSinaiticus

More evidence that you know absolutely nothing regarding the subject matter. Nothing!

Like I said look at my post again.

What does crow taste like?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by CodexSinaiticus

 

Support your post or reverse yourself! Or hide in the corner.

Are you saying that a police officer has never conspired to cover up a murder?

The indictment charges four officers – Kenneth Bowen, Robert Gisevius, Robert Faulcon and Anthony Villavaso – in connection with the shootings, and charges those four officers and two supervisors – Arthur “Archie” Kaufman and Gerard Dugue – with helping to obstruct justice during the subsequent investigations.

Free Republic: DOJ release

Oh, sorry, that's four.

More about it:

Michael Lohman, a retired New Orleans Police Lieutenant, pleaded guilty to a federal obstruction charge on Wednesday in New Orleans, admitting he participated in a conspiracy to cover-up the unjustified shooting of six unarmed people on Danziger Bridge in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina

Source

Two peoples lives were snuffed out by police officers, and four other officers conspired to cover it up. You say it doesn't happen.

But to suggest that police officers conspire to cover up murders is crazy, I have said this to YOU in several posts, yet you seem to gloss over this point.

Who is crazy? Hmmm.... You a cop?

Just in case you couldn't find it, I quoted myself.

Wasn't just an indictment, bud. They had a cop admit his guilt!

Oh, I wish I had a cop here to tell me what I don't know.

Originally posted by DankKing420
reply to post by Newbomb Turk

 

if only a video like this would go viral. that cop deserves a medal especially if the one he just stood up against has any pushing power in the department to make his life hell. S+F for the OP and the police officer

People don't deserve medals for doing their job. This is out of control especially in the military, medals and awards are handed out like candy. 99% of the soldiers don't deserve them. I served 10 years in the Army and was deployed 3 times so I know first hand.

reply to post by Newbomb Turk


Welcome to New York.

Michael Lohman, a retired New Orleans Police Lieutenant, pleaded guilty to a federal obstruction charge on Wednesday in New Orleans, admitting he participated in a conspiracy to cover-up the unjustified shooting of six unarmed people on Danziger Bridge in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina

Source

Here is my take on this:

Mr Lohman is offered a plea deal, take the obstruction and 6 month suspended sentence and testify against the other officers. You have 2 weeks to retire, and settle your affairs before we'll go forward with the plea.

Cop keeps his pension and does zero jail time.

Regarding the story, from what I heard it is some really scarry stuff, and maybe a taste of whats in store for all of us when the SHTF. From what I can recall, the officers were told (by whom is the real issue here) that shoot to kill was authorized for looters. I saw a clip on 60 minutes I think, anyway people were shot.

Whats very interesting here is that the officers will testify that they were given permission to act as they did, it will be interesting to see how this hashes out. The question here is not whether or not the officers shot people but was shooting these people unlawful.

Can a competent authority authorize this level of force?

I for one would like to know, and as far as I know there is no precedent. Unless, you consider Kent State an equivalent. Which judging by the lack of any enforcement action by the government, indicates it must have been absolutely, legal. Lol, I can believe I said that, hehe.

I don't see how this supports you theory of systemic police corruption, and the covering up of murders of prisoners held in police custody. But keep trying.