DCF wants my whole family to be tested for STD's

I know where you are coming from not wanting to be tested. A while back, someone killed a whole family in Kapunda, a small country town here. They were talking about DNA testing the entire town and that made me furious, even though I don't live there and wouldn't be subjected to it.

But being male especially, it's probably best to do the test. You will certainly be considered a suspect if you don't.

reply to post by Libertygal

Simply put, any testing done is looking for a haystack in a stack of needles, because almost everyone could test positive for HPV antibodies, it is that prevalent. This is being done as a persecution, they are looking for anyone to attack, and almost everyone would fit the bill. You, me, and millions upon millions of other people. It is implausable and cannot be used as a real determination of any fault or guilt of *anything*. ......

Thanks for the additional INFO. on the disease. The testing serves absolutely NO purpose. There is no treatment for the disease so that "supposed reason" is shot down and since about 25% of the adult US population has the disease it is pretty useless for determining guilt or innocence.

As I said it is a complete waste of taxpayer money. The test cost about $70 a person. There are more than 70 strains of HPV. So determining which strain may cost even more or require re-testing.

Again the presence of the specific HPV strain proves absolutely nothing.

On a slightly different aspect if I were the OP I would be tested privately and get a good lawyer. Why???

THE "LITTLE RASCALS" RITUAL ABUSE CASE, IN EDENTON, NC PROVES that over eager social workers CAN and WILL "implant" false memories in children.

Summary:
In excess of 90 children accused a total of 20 adults with 429 instances of child sexual abuse in a day care center in Edenton NC. Among the alleged perpetrators were the sheriff and mayor. Allegations included a baby killed with a hand gun, a child being hung upside down from a tree and being set on fire. Nobody in town noticed a baby missing. Needless to say, charges were never laid against the mayor or sheriff.

Robin Byrum, Darlene Harris, Elizabeth "Betsy" Kelly, Robert "Bob" Kelly, Scott Willard Privott, Shelly Stone, and Dawn Wilson were charged with engaging in various sexual activities with children in the Kellys' day care in 1989. Bob Kelly and Dawn Wilson were found guilty of multiple charges of child sex abuse and given long sentences. Betsy Kelly and Willard Privott pleaded "no contest" and were released. The charges against the other three were dropped. Convictions were overturned on appeal and new trials ordered. The cases were finally settled in 1999 when all charges were dropped against Kelley

These charges relate to the Little Rascal's Day Care in Edenton. It is perhaps the second most famous day care ritual abuse case in North America (after the McMartin Preschool in CA.) The PBS program Frontline has produced a series of three powerful documentary episodes on this case, called Innocence Lost. 2 It showed that the various ingredients of a typical MVMO abuse case were present in Edenton:
* no physical evidence that any actual abuse or killing happened.
* hysteria by the parents, investigators and general public.
* lack of evidence which would have been present if the children had actually been abused.
* the alleged abuse happened even as parents were coming to and fro during the day; nobody noticed anything strange at the day care center.
* the children initially denied that anything "funny" happened at the day care; but the interviewers did not believe the children.
* after months of extensive interviewing, using what are now known to be manipulative, suggestive techniques, children started to disclose abuse events. This was assisted by communications among parents who also grilled their children
* all of the documentation and tapes of the children's initial interviews were lost or destroyed.
* testimony described a long string of physically impossible or highly improbable events
* nobody seems to have asked the logical question: how could 7 to 20 adults form a conspiracy and abuse children hundreds of times, without any child complaining or without any parent noticing something amiss?

...Bob Kelly was tried on 100 charges and found guilty on 99, and given 12 consecutive life sentences. Dawn Wilson was then tried on 5 counts and given one life sentence with no possibility of parole for 20 years....

We will not describe the various proofs that ritual and sexual abuse did not happen in Edenton. For more information, see an essay by Dr. Jonathan G. Harris. 3

Little Rascal's is a most important case, because it demonstrates how the mind set of the interviewers can be transmitted to the children and persuade them to disclose events that never happened. A San Diego grand jury which investigated child abuse observed:

"Of particular interest is the information the Jury received about the Little Rascals pre-school case in North Carolina. Eighty-five percent of the percent of the children received therapy with three therapists in the town; all of these children eventually reported satanic abuse. Fifteen percent of the children were treated by different therapists in a neighboring city; none of the children reported abuse of any kind after the same period of time in therapy." 3
(emphasis added by us).

In effect, the Edenton MVMO case was a real-life replication of the type of laboratory experiment that could never be done for ethical reasons:
bullet Select a town or city in any area of the U.S. or Canada.
bullet Take 90 children, and separate them into a test and control group.
bullet Have the test group interrogated by therapists who believe in ritual abuse, using direct and repeated questions.
bullet Have the control group independently interrogated by therapists who are skeptical of ritual abuse using general questioning.
bullet compare the rates of disclosures of ritual abuse from the two groups.

The probable result would be that close to 100% of the test group and about 0% of the control group would reveal ritual abuse.

Conclusions:
It would appear that in this case, the memories of abuse were accidentally implanted by sincere Edenton therapists who believed in the reality of Satanic ritual abuse. The out-of-town therapists, who had no such belief system, found no abuse at all: Satanic or otherwise. Any group of young children anywhere in North America, if exposed to the same questioning procedures, would probably eventually accuse dozens of local adults with hundreds of crimes - some provably false.

As with other cases in North America and elsewhere where ritual abuse has been alleged, we suspect that no ritual abuse occurred in Edenton. Probably no other abuse happened either, other than the apparently accidental slapping of one boy. As in other cases, the children will be scarred for life by the memories inadvertently planted by the interviewers. There is probably little difference between a child actually being abused and a child having had false memories of abuse implanted their mind. Both will be partly disabled for life...

REFERENCE #3. "SBFAQ (Should Be Frequently Asked Questions) about Little Rascals, the Ritual Sexual Abuse Hoax and its costs" was written by Dr. Jonathan G. Harris, a MIT Professor of chemical engineering. See: www.vix.com...

I saw a friend lose his mentally handicapped little girl, aged ten when this technique was used. THERE WAS NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE except for a story implanted by a malicious "friend" who wanted custody of the child.

The child was a virgin, with no scars or anything yet he lost custody and was forbidden contact with the child all due to accuzations by a child hungry woman who was a drug pusher and thief. The woman got custody of the child until another family member stepped in. So much for Child Protection Services screening. (And yes the woman had a record)

that's messed up and i honestly wouldn't want to be tested either but you know you didn't do anything, it's just a quick test, don't get in trouble with the law, because honestly if they want you to do it you will have to do it anyways so don't stress over that man, relax.

Originally posted by Dasher


When strangers rule over strangers, not much good will come of it. But organize Men according to the honorable aspects of their animal-conduct (flocks, herds, troops, packs, tribes), and there is much more breathing room for nearly all forms of political views.

Well, I DO agree with you that society has become so large and impersonal that it impacts conduct. And I too think a solution would be to shrink groups to more manageable sizes and allow them more leeway to govern themselves. But I will remind you that simply knowing the people involved doesnt mean there will be more justice for all.

When people were organized in smaller self governing groups, people still did get falsely accused, and, "common sense" or opinion had much greater weight. Many of the people in this thread have a visceral or instinctive reaction to the OP that included the opinion that his strong desire to avoid the test at all costs made him look guilty.

You cant see him on this board. Neither can I. But lets pretend we are in a small group, and he is a member, (by his own description) of a family that is less than desirable to the tribe. And lets pretend that by some accident of fate, he also just "looks" wrong to us. Shifty eyed maybe. He would be tried and convicted in a small tribe just based on that alone. His appearance, his familys history, and our gut reaction. He might end up disappeared, or beaten based on NO actual evidence in a small group.

While there are, admittedly, problems with the anonymity of the "evil empire" and the system of trying people by groups of strangers, there is also some benefit to it as well. You arent tried for all your past transgressions against the group every single time you are accused of a new one, and you arent tried for your families transgressions against the group either. In the small rural Hawaiian town I grew up in, the police didnt get called for lots of crimes. People did handle them themselves. And the police tended to look the other way when they did. I think they did pretty good, most of the time. But, some people got hurt really badly who might not have actually done what they were accused of, and some people got caught and punished for their crimes who the courts could have never convicted based on evidence. No system is perfect, but, as long as we have the group size we do, we really cant go back to the older more personal system. That system depended on people knowing your reputation, and it required that they could treat you differentially based on that alone. Shunning you, refusing to do business with you, driving you out of the town, beating you, etc.

Our groups are too big for those age old methods to really work as well as they did in the past. The town gossip chain isnt in place in larger towns and cities like it is in small towns and tribes, etc.

Before you say anything else you NEED to get a lawyer. There is already more than enough evidence to convict half the people in the household of a sex crime against a child, even if you did nothing to hurt her. DCF will weave the words anyway they see fit to remove your children, and the local prosecutor will do the same with the evidence to ensure a swift conviction to bolster their image.

The next thing you need to do, IF you survive this legal attack on your family, is to leave, get away from the drama. You need to honestly protect your family from this. You stated essentially that this family is trash, and has a history of legal drama, so why did you stay near them? You need to cut all ties completely and move on with your own lives, safe and drama free.

I had in-laws and family members very similar, whom were ghetto, sociopathic and loved legal drama. What did my wife and I do? We disowned them and made it clearly known to all our extended family. They weren't happy at first but eventually they got over it and now they understand we want nothing to do with those individuals, their families, or to even hear anything about them. It has been amazing since then, as our lives have noticeably improved.

Soon, VERY SOON, I would not doubt there being an article in the paper with the headline "DCF finds local 5yo girl with genital herpes" and from there the public outcry will become great to crucify someone. So do the right thing, get a lawyer, navigate this legal mess, and then move you and your family away from the drama.

reply to post by crimvelvet

Taking it the OP is telling the truth, testing him and his family is a shear waste of time and tax money especially since he probably has already made it very clear he was careful never to be alone with the girl.

You're kidding, right?

"He was careful never to be alone with the girl?" I hope he didn't give the police that line. You don't think a child could be molested in two month's time?

The police are going to get a court order requiring the OP be tested. Whether he wants to be tested or not is irrelevant. He'd better get himself a lawyer.

The OP is a fool. Let them test you. It will only eliminate you. They aren't asking to test you becuase they think you're guilty, they asked because they ask EVERYONE. If it were my lil girl I would let them probe me if i thought it would help. Get over yourself and do the test

reported estimates that about 75-80% of sexually active Americans will be infected with HPV at some point in their lifetime.[90][91] By the age of 50 more than 80% of American women will have contracted at least one strain of genital HPV.[

Okay so lets see they want him to take a test that rules out 20% of the population, Their is no reason to take this test, it has a poor chance of finding who did it, and will only serve to make 80% of how ever people are in your family as guilty.

Get a good family law attorney , the arguments of "Oh your rights don't matter when a child is involved " IS bs, your rights always matter period.

Look, the simple fact he is refusing to test makes him look suspicious to them, which is understandable, becuase, well why not get tested. I'm NOT accusing anyone here I'm only saying that it's kind of like arguing with a judge, what the heck is the point

I thought though, like 1/2 of the population HAD HPV. How does that eliminate anyone?

2nd line

Even though it seems like you want to "fight the system" aka preserving personal rights, to me that doesn't mean resisting every single attempt that you believe infringes on your rights. Does that make any sense? I agree with the majority, that you should proceed with the testing. I am somewhat surprised that you would resist, considering that if you could get out of it, then the person who gave them to the girl may do the same. Would you want that? Then no one will know who it was. I do not want to implicate you, but I am sure you are the prime suspect right now for the ones doing the investigation, and that is not good to say the least.

reply to post by lspilot6946


Wo there buddy, the logical thing to do is to get tested and clear everything up (including the warts!). It's a crappy situation but you gotta do what you gotta do. Don't be so stubborn.

As soon as someone from a proven, zero-trust organization decides they want to stick a needle in me to prove something is the point at which I would start worrying. Immunization ingredients, wfid chips, circumstantial procedures to deduce source vectors, and a growing push to demoralize and declare average citizens as criminals - these are not pleasant hurdles to consider submitting to.

I would say this is a valid conflict of interests on a few levels, and the chips are stacked one-sided. Take the hypothetical situation that the OP and the child do happen to have a matching condition, yet the OP is innocent, and the actual source was some contaminated food the child ate a few weeks ago from a street stand (an actual incident happened to locals over an std who ate at a late-night Chinese takeout in Guelph, years ago, for example). How is the individual going to have a leg to stand on, you over-zelous posters who think the only precious life is that of the childs?

reply to post by lspilot6946


Dude, I get the point you are trying to make. You don't want a government agency forcing you to potentially give up some of your privacy.

You need to think about this differently. You want to know who did it, right? What if the person you suspected refused to take the test on the same grounds? Wouldn't you be extremely angry (probably writing an angry thread about it) if that person said it was violating his/her rights therefore not cooperate?

For her sake, your sake, and in all fairness, you should volunteer to take the test.

Okay I have to ask..where is the OP on all this?

A lot of questions and a ton of information has been provided by everyone and I have yet to hear a peep out of the OP since the beginning of this thread...I think some answers to some of the mystery is in his account of some of the happenings that were not detailed in the OP.

I see many good questions...that are relatively easy to clear up some of this mess...but I don't see any answers...so that makes it difficult.

I don't know...I just think it would be easier to continue with some input from the OP...IMO.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Your posts in this thread have really been a great read. It is not often people truly communicate on these forums.

I see what you are saying. But your analysis is not based upon experience with a formal tribal system. Nor is it very possible for it to be based upon a more appropriate "post-modern empire" tribal system. Meaning; We have made many mistakes and many achievements. We have grown to the point of toppling over. We have grown to the point of crushing our own "trunk and roots."

I am not simply suggesting that we revert to anarchy. Anarchy is certainly good and bad, just as republics, kingdoms, etc, are good and bad. However, the specific concept that I am suggesting is for there to be a formal "taking of steps backwards," while not forgetting what we have learned in these modern times, and continuing forward again with wisdom from both imperial and tribal living. There is no doubt that tribal living can break down into uncivilized conduct, but there is also no doubt that imperial living breeds nonsensical conduct necessarily.

Taxes are a good example. Send your money to a large government; First, money is lost to evaporation when being collected such as during the facilitation of large tax-controlling organizations and enforcement of their policies. Second, money is evaporated by unknown and extenuating circumstances during the changing of hand from the tax collectors and the "spenders." These happenings are impossible to specify due to their great diversity and hidden nature. Third, money is evaporated by the establishing of "earmarks" by those we have entrusted with caring for it. Fourth, money is evaporated by the facilitation of those earmarks. Fifth, money is evaporated again by more unknown and extenuating circumstances while it makes it trip to it's final destination. Sixth, at it's final destination, there is evaporation due to other organizational needs and processing.

I am sure that there are more losses, but these are the obvious points of evaporation. It's just the "physics" of money. If that same amount of money was given directly to local governments, the evaporation would be reduced by five sixths or more. We are bleeding dry. While I understand your sense of forced continuation of our charade, it is, by nature, unable to last. Tribes, by nature, exist in stagnant forms. If we can find a way to combined the best of both "ways," I would argue that the benefit of knowing your neighbors (charity), and the benefit of civil law (order), can be more unified than we can imagine at this time.

If I think along these terms, I can easily imagine a different set of procedures an organization tasked with caring for "lost" children could take. Friendlier, but also more potent. Orderly, and Charitable. I'll say again; As it is now, Freedom is a catchword used to confuse many and Justice is a catchword used to abuse many.

I would like to see both True Justice AND True Freedom increase. This cannot happen while we violate the good aspects of our nature and glorify the unruly (chaotic) and inconsiderate (prideful) aspects of our nature.

---

And I second the thought of wondering where the OPer is.
What is unfolding for you?
What are your thoughts on alternate means of achieving justice with grace in this particular situation?

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been around or back on to answer some questions and give a update to whats been going on. Been busy and also have a friend thats in ICU for emergency surgery...he ended up having some of his colon and small intestine removed, but he's doing better.

Anyway back to the topic. When I 1st started this thread I didnt really plan it through with what I was actually thinking. It was more on emotion. I had actually researched HPV and found out what everyone on here is thinking and that was the main reason as why I didnt want to be tested. How can you possibly be ruled out if by chance you have a virus that half of the population will get? That was my thinking.

DCF said that everyone she has lived with may be required to take a test. Obviously the DCF lady didnt know anything about home common it is and that really there isnt a test for it for the general population I gather. Also, I've told everyone that may be tested if they can some how, not to be tested. It would only cause more confusion and will not give any light on who or what if anyone did anything, especially since there is a great possibility that all of us could have HPV.

Like I said the girl does not live with me and my wife, she lived with us a couples months right before Christmas then went to stay with two other families. So thats a total of about 15 people that will be tested.

Also, my wifes 20yo daughter does has herpes and has on occasion had outbreaks while the girl was staying with us. Everytime i used the bathroom I would sanatize the seat, but its possible that the lil girl couldve been exposed to it that way. I guess herpes is different then HPV but they say it could be one or the other.

What I dont like is how alot of you people on here point the finger at me. I was very surprised at the remarks and just the assumptions it was rather ridiculous.

As for my statment about me never being alone with the girl: Her father is in prison for child molestation. A few years ago his 11 yo daughter accused him of messing with her, there was never a trial and he plead to a lesser charge. Well about a year ago the daughter now 14 has told her fathers sister that she made it all up because she was mad at him. Knowing this, i made sure not to ever be put in a situation. Her using the bathroom and me being asked by my wife to wipe her, and me saying no, was just a precationary measure cause you never know what might be said. Also, I live in a county in Fl that is notorious for abusing rights and arresting 1st and asking ?'s later. Hopefully this clears things up a bit.

reply to post by lspilot6946


By law they can force you to be tested by one phone call to any judge.

Yea and that may be. But if they decide to test us they will require a warrant. And obviously you havent read or researched HPV. There is no test for HPV for men. So really what would they be testing me for. I will not give up my DNA. Also, I believe the Dr. said there was no indication of sexual abuse. So I believe this to be a unfortunate accident.

Maybe you got infected