Q and A. Dispelling The Myths And Misnomers Of Christianity.

reply to post by Klassified

It has always been the christian's duty to reach out to the masses at an individual level, and share with them the truth of scripture. The only problem I see with this thread is that an atheist cared more about peoples erroneous beliefs than most of the christians here do. I shouldn't have had a chance to start this thread. It should have already been done by real christians. No matter how many sects there are. You either have a heart for the lost, or you don't. From what I have seen thus far, only one in this thread does.

That's not really a fair assessment. The prime reason why many of us are here and post with those who disagree is because we have a heart for the lost and wish to tell the truth of Christ and dispel myths and fables.

reply to post by micmerci


That is not the only requirement for salvation. Quoting John 3:16 must be a contradiction then.

Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by micmerci

 

That is not the only requirement for salvation. Quoting John 3:16 must be a contradiction then.

What does Romans 10:9 say? justification is a free gift of God's grace. If it had to be merited it would not be grace. Sanctification takes work and effort, that why there are rewards to be won or lost based on faithfulness. But salvation (justification) and sanctification are two different things and many people mix the two up.

Galatians, Hebrews, and Romans detail that justification is by faith alone, the author of this NT trilogy also points to Habakkuk 2:4 as his OT verse to support this.

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by Klassified

 

If salvation is a gift, then why are there so many stipulations attached to it? Aren't gifts, by definition, free and not require anything in return from the receiver?

If yes, then why do you have to: repent of all sins, believe, have faith..

You make this sound like it is a chore. Repenting of all sins is a must, to receive the gift, because the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which should be obvious to anyone, that you cannot be forgiven if you deny Christ.

Believing and having faith are something that almost seem like a given. That's like me saying to my child, "Hey, I'll give you this present, but you first must acknowledge me as your dad."

I mean.. What is he going to say? "No thanks, you aren't my dad?"

Christian doublespeak is all I see. Yes they are a given; and yes it is more of a chore because it requires action on the receiver to acquire the gift of salvation.

Your analogy is flawed, of course if you offer me something beneficial to me (like eternal life), then I'd say yes just to receive it. Not necessarily because I meant it or believed you.

Stop right there. I don't know anywhere in the Bible that states you must be baptized and/or perform works in order to get salvation.

You clearly never heard of "saved by grace, through faith", it was mentioned a few times in this thread already.

Stop right there, you clearly haven't read your bible then. Mark 16:16 says hello; so does Acts 2:38. Performing some works is mentioned in Matt 25:41-46.

If people don’t do these works, you don’t obtain salvation. These are not simply side effects of faith, they’re requirements in order to receive the prize. Faith is what compels the person to do these things. If a person didn’t have faith that these things were desired by God, and believed they wouldn’t be rewarded for doing them, then they wouldn’t bother to do them. Faith alone doesn’t automatically make one perform these actions, but they are all required for the faith to translate into salvation. James echoes this with his “faith without works is dead” theme.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Klassified

 

It has always been the christian's duty to reach out to the masses at an individual level, and share with them the truth of scripture. The only problem I see with this thread is that an atheist cared more about peoples erroneous beliefs than most of the christians here do. I shouldn't have had a chance to start this thread. It should have already been done by real christians. No matter how many sects there are. You either have a heart for the lost, or you don't. From what I have seen thus far, only one in this thread does.

That's not really a fair assessment. The prime reason why many of us are here and post with those who disagree is because we have a heart for the lost and wish to tell the truth of Christ and dispel myths and fables.

That may be true for you. But you are one of the handful I have seen doing this occasionally, and trying to do it in a productive way. As I said, my thoughts for this thread were very simple. If people are going to talk about christianity, they should at least do it with some understanding, not a total lack thereof.

reply to post by Klassified

I see a lot of misinformation on ATS concerning christianity.

It's not just on ATS, it's on the streets, it's coming from religious pulpits; and with so many denominations; everyone has a different idea of the Christian faith.

If you're going to correct people on Christianity then you will have to reference the ORIGINAL documents. Surely You can't just customise your own religion and/or God?

Either you have "vague faith" or you're consistent with your belief in Doctrine, OR you're a Deist (non-theist)

So i'd like to ask a few questions in regards to Christianity that come DIRECTLY from scripture:-

Is homosexuality an abomination? Is it a sin? If not, why not?

Should Christians believe in demons and witches if God condemns them?

Original Sin"? "Born sick, and commanded to be well?" Is this true? Isn't this an offense to Atheists and non-believers of Christianity? Do you have to believe this to call yourself a Christian?

What about the Sabbath Day? Are we all "sinning" if we do not "respect" it?

What did Jesus mean when he told people to leave their families to follow him? What if they were sick or dying?

What about the Old Testament? Do we ignore this doctrine?

Why do most Christians glorify the New Testament, only the New Testament preaches hellfire. Should Christians be teaching that to their children?

And finally, must you obey ALL of the commands to be a Christian? What about envy? What if you envy a friends book collection, or you envy his giving nature?

Just a few questions if you could be kind enough to answer; and show what a "true" Christian is.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Klassified

 

Because christianity is not based on whether you are a good or bad person.

How about this teaching of Jesus?

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven – only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’

Wouldn't this seem to contradict what you said about being good or bad?

My take on those verses above, is that there are some Christian organizations out there, that are charging people money, to receive healings and prayers etc whereby they are effectively turning the Fathers house, into a den of thieves. In all likely hood, they probably don’t even believe in Jesus, and are only using his name for their own personal gain.



-JC

reply to post by Joecroft

In all likely hood, they probably don’t even believe in Jesus, and are only using his name for their own personal gain.

Of course, this is a guess. And like Islamic militias; they do preach awful passages from the QuRan, and many suicide bombers do not fear death because they have strong faith in matyrdom and jihad.

The "end times" are prophesised in abrahamic doctrine; it's no wonder people think they are doing "good" for preaching salavation and conversion, especially if you genuinely believe these doctrines are "divine" or even the "word of God".

My question : How do christians envision God? A man with a beard sitting in the clouds?

To me god is simply energy (possibly what scientists call dark matter, others call it 'atmosphere') that can be negatively or postively charged for what others call good and evil.

Originally posted by yakuzakid
My question : How do christians envision God? A man with a beard sitting in the clouds?

To me god is simply energy (possibly what scientists call dark matter, others call it 'atmosphere') that can be negatively or postively charged for what others call good and evil.

As a whole, I don't think christians try to envision God. Except maybe as the bible alludes to in some places. So bright there isn't anyway to look upon him.

Originally posted by symogums
so by the christian system a person who lies cheats uses others for their own benefit accepts jesus all is forgiven and go's to heaven and some poor person born somewhere where they never hear of a church or jesus but helps everyone sacrifices personal benefits for others and promotes love in the world go's to hell.... great system

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

If there our people not hearing the Word of God than its our(Christians) fault.

Originally posted by Joecroft

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Klassified

 

Because christianity is not based on whether you are a good or bad person.

How about this teaching of Jesus?

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven – only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’

Wouldn't this seem to contradict what you said about being good or bad?

My take on those verses above, is that there are some Christian organizations out there, that are charging people money, to receive healings and prayers etc whereby they are effectively turning the Fathers house, into a den of thieves. In all likely hood, they probably don’t even believe in Jesus, and are only using his name for their own personal gain.

-JC

If one is to look at the verses before this you can see what is really being said. It is a warning on how to recognize false prophets and judging them by their fruits. Plus a warning to those who do things in the name of Jesus wrongly.

reply to post by Seed76


Simply because the website has an agenda does not mean that The Bible doesn't say that God condones (and even supports) rape. You obviously have no better response than, "if an atheist says it, it must be false." At least you made an effort. I still think that "God created the universe, so he can damn well do what he pleases with it and any who inhabit it" is a much better response. It is the only logical one. Unfortunately for you, that logical response would also lead any good person to dismiss the Abrahamic religions as barbaric and disgusting. Oh, and if rape isn't enough for you, how about infanticide? Is this somehow less evil than abortion?
Or how about Numbers 31:7-18 "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. That one talks about murder, infanticide, abduction, and rape all in one command from your "loving" God.
Any agenda that supports the destruction of a belief system centered upon this disgusting deity should be held in high esteem, not questioned in its validity.

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare

Is homosexuality an abomination? Is it a sin? If not, why not?

There is some debate in the more liberal denominations about this, but most christians believe it to be a sin. You may want to read more than just the few verses I quote here. Romans 1:26,27

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Should Christians believe in demons and witches if God condemns them?

If by believing in them you mean acknowledge their existence, yes. Most christians acknowledge both.

Original Sin"? "Born sick, and commanded to be well?" Is this true? Isn't this an offense to Atheists and non-believers of Christianity? Do you have to believe this to call yourself a Christian?

A quote from Mr. Hitchens I believe. Simply put. Adam disobeyed God, and mans need for atonement was born. Yes. True. From the christians perspective this is not a matter of offense to anyone. It is simply a fact. The acknowledgement to ourselves and to God that we need redemption is at the core of christianity. And therefore, necessary.

What about the Sabbath Day? Are we all "sinning" if we do not "respect" it?

This is where we get into the gray area of christianity. Some have a list of laws they believe we still have to observe. Some believe Jesus' death and ressurrection fulfilled the whole of the laws requirements, and therefore trying to observe the law as a requirement for christian life is putting yourself back into a bondage you were freed from. Because in short, by affirming Christ as the propitiation for your sins, you become dead to the law, and alive to God through Christ, who is the embodiment of the the law.

What did Jesus mean when he told people to leave their families to follow him? What if they were sick or dying?

Because for the christian, God is top priority in their life. His will always comes first. Even above their family.

Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.

What about the Old Testament? Do we ignore this doctrine?

The old testament is the old covenant. The new testament is the new covenant. It's not a matter of ignoring. It's a matter of the present dispensation. Christians live by the new covenant because th old covenant and its requirements have been fulfilled in Christ.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written FOR OUR LEARNING...

Why do most Christians glorify the New Testament, only the New Testament preaches hellfire. Should Christians be teaching that to their children?

For the christian. This is simply the truth of the matter. It is a fact. Without Christ, there is eternal seperation from God in a place of torment.

And finally, must you obey ALL of the commands to be a Christian? What about envy? What if you envy a friends book collection, or you envy his giving nature?

For the christian. There is forgiveness when they stumble(sin), and repent of it afterward. It isn't a matter of memorizing the commandments so you can obey them per se. The relationship with God becomes a law of love. In other words, the christian obeys God because he desires to live a life pleasing to God. So he will follow those commandments even if he doesn't know them because the Holy Spirit will bring disobedience and sin to his attention in his daily life. Nevertheless:

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Originally posted by furzball
All right time to have fun rattling cages. Just alittle history on myself. I'm agnostic. Just like OP I've studied christianity into agnosticism. Why not atheism some may ask, well, simply cause I've seen enough spirits and other things of the unnatural to know there is a greater power. Anyways onto a few questions.

Do you believe christians should study more then just king james bible. They should move onto older scriptures where there is some interesting facts. I swear, I meet people nowadays that have no idea who Lilith is.

What do you think of "king james" translations versus finding original meaning to old scripture. Such as "virgin" Mary not being a virgin at all but just had child during the working season when women weren't supposed to be having child (hence virgin was a mistranslation of celibrate.In an age when wives would have different titles going with the season.)" Witch/witchcraft meaning "poisoner" and "someone who brings curses". etc.

In older scripture, Yahwah (god) actually had family. A father, brother, wife, and son are references I've seen so far (actually that son was not jesus or at least went by a different name). What do you think happened to them along the line?

What do you think of Da Vinci Code theories? Could Jesus have been married to Mary Magdaline and asked her to continue her work, but John was a sexist and spread the word she was a prostitute so he could continue Jesus' work his own way?

I'm interested in hearing your answers since you seem to be well studied.

Former Christian...now Spiritual..

Christ means annointed one....he was physically, biologically and mentally superior, had true knowledge (gnosis).

Jesus did not want you to follow him, but to be like him.

Salvation is a word that is used to keep you imprisoned. No one is going to "Save" you...not God, nor Jesus nor the Aliens. Look within, not without!

It has become increasingly clear over several pages that this thread is an exercise in futility. And has gone in a whole different direction than what was intended. While the concept was and is simple. The realization of that concept is evidently not feasible on a forum such as ATS.

I appreciate all the questions and comments, both positive and negative. But I'm going to admit defeat on this one. And leave it alone.

My acknowledgments to Lionhearte, micmerci, and Noturtypical specifically, for their input.

Klassified.

Originally posted by Klassified
It has become increasingly clear over several pages that this thread is an exercise in futility. And has gone in a whole different direction than what was intended. While the concept was and is simple. The realization of that concept is evidently not feasible on a forum such as ATS.

I appreciate all the questions and comments, both positive and negative. But I'm going to admit defeat on this one. And leave it alone.

My acknowledgments to Lionhearte, micmerci, and Noturtypical specifically, for their input.

Klassified.

Sorry if I threw too many wrenches into your cogworks. I was thinking the thread was you giving your opinions on questions on christian belief based on your studies. So my mistake lol. Sad to hear what seems like a good idea for a thread has gone off track quickly. Perhaps update the OP, make it blatently clear what you want happen in the thread and go from there.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Sir, it doesn't bother me if you choose to reply to me or not.

You are making wild claims concerning the most important of matters, based on blogs that are nothing but assumptions based on preconceived notions, speculation, flights of fantasy, inaccuracies, and outright deception.
How about you actually giving an explanation and defense for these claims of yours?
To me, your behaviour is scandalous to real Christians and blasphemous to the true God.
You say you are a prophet when you say you speak the word of God.
You are placing yourself in the position of a false prophet when you speak contrary to the revealed truth of God through his Apostles.

reply to post by jmdewey60


You didn't address anything, you basically said "Nope, you're wrong."

The Bema Seat Judgment is for the rewarding or loss of rewards, it happens while the seals of the scroll are being opened, prior to the marriage supper of the Lamb. The second "judgment" is the sheep and goats judgment immediately after the Great Tribulation, and immediately prior to the 1,000 year reign of Christ. The resurrection of the wicked and those people who lived during the millineal reign are judged at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ, this thrid judgment is called the "Great White Throne" judgment. So there are three judgments spoken of.

1. The Bema/Judgment Seat of Christ (In heaven, for believers)
2. The Sheep and Goat judgment (On Earth, for those who survive the Great Tribulation)
3. The Great White Throne judgment (On Earth, for the wicked beginning with Cain, and also includes those alive during the 1,000 year reign of Christ)